MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #4

[ELOCsoul]

Did anyone see Sel Tel's most recent post saying something to the effect 'broaden your visions' along w/ attached photos + drawings? I saw the text but not the attachments but now cannot find the post at all...

Yes, one of the pictures was of a sketch of one of the person's LE was looking for, from the Nov 1989 news article, the one with the wire rim glasses on. The other pictures were booking photos (I assume) of an older person reassembling the sketch. Appeared to me that SelTel was trying to demonstrate what the person in the sketch could look like.

 

[ELOCsoul]

Other pedos being in the area, on a dead end road on a Sunday night, in the dark, seem doubtful at best - at least to me. Why would pedos be out wandering around by corn fields hoping children might pass by?

I still think there us a good chance whoever did this was out peeping and followed the boys from the field, thereby explaining the "sound that shouldn't be there". If it was DR, I think he was outside.

 

[cGorg]

I am new to this thread as a poster although I have been reading this thread for a year now...I appreciate the insightful comments...can anyone tell me or direct me to in instructions for expressing 'thank you' for this or that post + also how to cut + pasting comments?

 

[human]

I am new to this thread as a poster although I have been reading this thread for a year now...I appreciate the insightful comments...can anyone tell me or direct me to in instructions for expressing 'thank you' for this or that post + also how to cut + pasting comments?

Have you had a chance to look at an old map of the area? Not a new one as there is so much development.

There was nowhere for neighbors to hang out. This is a very deserted area of homes back then..

Minnesota roads have ditches . Not suitable for parking your car off of the road, Huge chunks would get torn off of your car if you tried to cross a ditch.

 

[ELOCsoul]

I am new to this thread as a poster although I have been reading this thread for a year now...I appreciate the insightful comments...can anyone tell me or direct me to in instructions for expressing 'thank you' for this or that post + also how to cut + pasting comments?

On the post that you want to "thank", there should be a yellow thumbs-up on the lower right hand corner of the post. It's to the right of the "quote" button....

 

[ELOCsoul]

Have you had a chance to look at an old map of the area? Not a new one as there is so much development.

There was nowhere for neighbors to hang out. This is a very deserted area of homes back then..

Minnesota roads have ditches . Not suitable for parking your car off of the road, Huge chunks would get torn off of your car if you tried to cross a ditch.

Yeah, there were only 2 places to park a car near the abduction scene - up DR's driveway, and across from it. We know there wasn't a car across from it because the boys would have surely seen it.

 

[ELOCsoul]

In the 911 call, Trevor described the abductor as being similar in size to their neighbor Merle(5'10", 180)..stocky...how tall is DR? And being a runner he would be thin. '

This is a good question that I've often wondered about but never thought to ask - what is DR's height? Anyone know how tall he is?

 

[cGorg]

I have seen the 1989 aerial pictures of the area but have not been to the site. However, I grew up in a rural town...surprising how people could drive + park there cars in and around ditches...especially during parties. Ditches vary in their steepness so some more accessible than others. Seems plausible the perp's) could have stashed a vehicle(s) near the treeline north of DR's road + the boys would not have seen it...especially as the moon had not yet risen.

 

[shergal]

This entire video from 2009 is worth watching.
http://www.kare11.com/video/47393243001/1/20-years-later---Hope-remains-for-Jacobs-return

But I never noticed this one sentence before. Start at 3:34 on video with the interview of lead investigator, Pam Jensen... "Jensen says at least SIX local people rank prominently on a list of 1700 possible suspects. Over the years, investigators have sifted through 41,000 leads."

So this video was made in 2009. I'm thinking that by 2009, 20 years after Jacob's abduction, they would have already eliminated the earliest suspects, one of whom was the art student in the red car searching for things to draw.The man who molested Jared in Cold Spring (first described to the public on 12/15/89 - although the incident took place in Jan. 1989) has never been eliminated that I know of, in fact some investigators feel this man was the suspect in both Jared and Jacob's cases. From what I've read, it seems by 2009 they had also already eliminated: the Bahner brothers (from St. Joe), Vernon Seitz (barber from WI), and former priest James Porter* - or maybe they never eliminated Porter.

* If you haven't heard of Fr. James Porter before, his story is here:
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/porter/index_1.html
and this is a small excerpt mentioning Jacob from Chapter 6: "In November 1989, Fitzpatrick uncovered a newspaper obituary for his quarrys father. It named James Porter as a Minnesota resident, and a computer check of motor vehicle registrations traced him to Oakdale. Porters telephone number was listed in the local directory, but Fitzpatrick made other calls first, to the Oakdale Police Department and Washington Countys Department of Social Services, naming Porter as a lifelong threat to children. FBI agents visited Porters home in December 1989, acting on a tip from Oakdale police, and questioned him about the October 22 disappearance of 11-year-old Jacob Wetterling from St. Joseph, Minnesota. Porter denied any knowledge of the kidnapping (still unsolved), but admitted molesting 30 or 40 children during his years as a priest."

On May 16, 1996 we learned they had eliminated these 3 suspects: "Search warrants authorities thought were sealed are released to the public. The warrants reveal three potential suspects authorities considered early in the investigation: A then 60-year-old St. Joseph-area man who confessed to the kidnapping one month after it occurred. The man was later eliminated as a suspect and moved to a nursing home because he suffered from Alzheimer’s disease. A St. Cloud State University student who was committed to a mental institution one week after Jacob’s abduction. The man later was eliminated as a suspect and killed himself in another state. A Paynesville-area man who fit the description of a man suspected of abducting and sexually assaulting a Cold Spring boy. Authorities searched his home three months after the Cold Spring abduction. Police then said that the man wasn’t a top suspect in the St. Joseph abduction, but at least one paragraph in the search warrant was blocked out."
http://www.globegazette.com/article_2b0e6832-84d0-11df-85ff-001cc4c03286.html

So if all the above (with the possible exception of Porter) were eliminated, I'm curious who the "6 local people still ranking prominently in 2009" were? Perhaps some of them have been eliminated in the intervening 4 years? Of course, we know DR is one of them, because he has been named the main POI by the sheriff's dept. and we found out in 2010 that he has always been their main person of interest. I'm curious though, who the others might be that weren't already eliminated.

Many people have mentioned Mathew Feeney as a possible suspect, although I think I read he was eliminated as a suspect also. There was a sergeant with the sheriff's dept. who was arrested in 2012 for having molested minors - "PM" - he had been with the sheriff's dept. for 18 years - mentoring kids. I'm not sure if he was ever a suspect or not - possibly not, because 2 of the minors he got drunk and molested were his own relatives and all of them were girls. His story is here.
http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=872315

Not sure who any other suspects would be - maybe priests or monks from St. John's? Or someone local we've never been told about.

 

[cGorg]

shergal,

wow! that is a plethora of information...thank you! I will watch the video. This case is like fireworks....it shoots off in all directions.

I have just one question which has bothered me a long time:

If DR is actually guilty and if LE has eliminated the Bahner brothers as suspects, then WHY do Diane Meuhlbaurer's tapes exist?

 

[human]

I have seen the 1989 aerial pictures of the area but have not been to the site. However, I grew up in a rural town...surprising how people could drive + park there cars in and around ditches...especially during parties. Ditches vary in their steepness so some more accessible than others. Seems plausible the perp's) could have stashed a vehicle(s) near the treeline north of DR's road + the boys would not have seen it...especially as the moon had not yet risen.

This area is not a town. I live in the country in MN. Cars are parked on the side of the road, into the road. I believe their road was narrow as is our's.

How would the car have got north of the tree line? Across fields?

 

[cGorg]

How would the car have got north of the tree line? Across fields?

I meant adjacent to the north side of DR's road or between that road and the treeline to the north.

 

[buffetoflies]

Rassiers have a farm... Most farms have mini driveways so farmers can drive the tractor into the fields. I think it's called an abutment? Would have a culvert underneath so water could still flow.

I recall discussion in either this thread, or one of the other 3 about there being a party spot back in the woods in that area.

Did Jacob or Aaron or Trevor have DR as a teacher? I can't recall...

I was trying to think earlier how the abductor would have kept Jacob quiet if (lets say) he was put in on of the Rassier outbuildings for a bit? If there some kind of chemical used on farms that would put him out? Was he beaten?

I would think if he was threatened to keep quiet and he heard the police searching he would still yell for help. If we think back to 2007 when BO was abducted by Micheal Devlin, Devlin had him for 3 days but he still ran out when the police came. Jacob would have only been hidden for a few hours then.

Could there have been an underground bunker?

As for hiding spots for trophies, there are likely plenty of hiding spots on the rassier farm.

DR has lived there his whole life, and his parents are reportedly very important in the community. Would he have known that the Stearn's county police aren't very good? Would he have anticipated them screwing up this bad? Not searching right away?

 

[shergal]

shergal,

wow! that is a plethora of information...thank you! I will watch the video. This case is like fireworks....it shoots off in all directions.

I have just one question which has bothered me a long time:

If DR is actually guilty and if LE has eliminated the Bahner brothers as suspects, then WHY do Diane Meuhlbaurer's tapes exist?

Because she posted them to you tube and links to them quite frequently in our local paper comment sections. Her brother Joe posts on the Times comment boards as "joe on the run" and he links to them also. If you google "stearns truth" she has other videos where she interviewed Vernon seitz - the Wisconsin barber, Brenda Bahner, and others. All her tapes have that wonderful scratchy hard to hear sound. ;-) I'm sure she means well, though.

 

[shergal]

Rassiers have a farm... Most farms have mini driveways so farmers can drive the tractor into the fields. I think it's called an abutment? Would have a culvert underneath so water could still flow.

I recall discussion in either this thread, or one of the other 3 about there being a party spot back in the woods in that area.

Did Jacob or Aaron or Trevor have DR as a teacher? I can't recall...

I was trying to think earlier how the abductor would have kept Jacob quiet if (lets say) he was put in on of the Rassier outbuildings for a bit? If there some kind of chemical used on farms that would put him out? Was he beaten?

I would think if he was threatened to keep quiet and he heard the police searching he would still yell for help. If we think back to 2007 when BO was abducted by Micheal Devlin, Devlin had him for 3 days but he still ran out when the police came. Jacob would have only been hidden for a few hours then.

Could there have been an underground bunker?

As for hiding spots for trophies, there are likely plenty of hiding spots on the rassier farm.

DR has lived there his whole life, and his parents are reportedly very important in the community. Would he have known that the Stearn's county police aren't very good? Would he have anticipated them screwing up this bad? Not searching right away?

None of the boys had Rassier as a teacher. DR teaches music in Cold Spring, MN and at St. John's. Jacob and Aaron were at North Junior High in St. Cloud. (Kids in St. Joe used to go to grades K-4 in St. Joe and then for higher grades they were bussed into St. Cloud schools.)

 

[cGorg]

Because she posted them to you tube and links to them quite frequently in our local paper comment sections. Her brother Joe posts on the Times comment boards as "joe on the run" and he links to them also. If you google "stearns truth" she has other videos where she interviewed Vernon seitz - the Wisconsin barber, Brenda Bahner, and others. All her tapes have that wonderful scratchy hard to hear sound. ;-) I'm sure she means well, though.

Do you mean to say then that these tapes are fabricated?

 

[marlins]

"I recall discussion in either this thread, or one of the other 3 about there being a party spot back in the woods in that area".

I remeber reading something on Joy's Blog about a wayward "party spot" in the woods near Rassier's farm. Ill see if I can locate it.

 

[marlins]

This was taken directly from Joys website concerning the "party spot":

When I mentioned those cars to Kevin, the first thing he asked me was, “Were there people in them?” I guess I had assumed so… but wanted to know why he asked. He mentioned it because there was a party place back in the woods at that time… across the road from Rassiers’ place. Kids would park along the driveway and walk across the street, into the woods, out of sight, where there was a bonfire pit. It was surrounded by sheets of corrugated tin so the cops couldn’t see the glow of the fire from the road. Bench seats from old cars were used for seating around the fire pit. (I wondered who had hauled them back there. It sounded more like a homeless camp than a party spot.)

Kevin had only been there one time… before he was old enough to drive. (He remembers this because he and a buddy had ridden their bikes there.) Sometime during the night, the cops showed up, walking with flashlights through the woods, so everyone took off running. “So the cops knew about this place?” I asked Kevin. He assumed so, since they had been the ones to chase them out of there. I wondered whose land it was, but he said he wasn’t sure. He thought it may even have been public land, because there was a swamp back there, surrounded by makeshift bike trails and jumps. Kevin had a buddy that lived in the apartments that overlooked the swamp, so they used to ride their bikes back there all the time when they were kids. I wondered who else knew about this place… a secret place where kids often hung out. I wondered if Jacob and his friends knew about the spot. And I wondered if maybe there had been a party going on that evening… October 22, 1989.

I asked Dan if he knew about the party spot. He did not. However, he did point out that whenever he or his parents would find cars parked along their driveway at night, they usually had people in them. Couples, in particular. And most of the time, the couples were parked far enough down the driveway so they couldn’t be seen from the road. It wasn’t until the Rassiers happened-upon the cars with their headlights that they would even know they were there. After Jacob, however, all those shenanigans abruptly stopped. Lover’s Lane was officially closed for business.

So… who can help me answer my questions about about this party spot? Who owned it? Did it still exist in 1989? Certainly the volunteers conducting the ground search would have discovered it, wouldn’t they have?

 

[ELOCsoul]

Do you mean to say then that these tapes are fabricated?

I read at one time that the tapes were a ploy to get a jail sentence reduced. Seems like a lot of effort to me, not to mention it would be a cruel hoax. Would be interesting to find out who "Lou" is?? Lou was the subject of speculation on Websleuths several times.

If someone has some info about why these tapes were discounted by LE it would be helpful. The tapes are a little hard to understand clearly. Joy Baker has posted a written transcript of one of the tapes on her most recent blog, www.joybaker.com

 

[cGorg]

[QUOTE=ELOCsoul;9661285]I read at one time that the tapes were a ploy to get a jail sentence reduced. Seems like a lot of effort to me, not to mention it would be a cruel hoax. Would be interesting to find out who "Lou" is?? Lou was the subject of speculation on Websleuths several times.

If someone has some info about why these tapes were discounted by LE it would be helpful. The tapes are a little hard to understand clearly. Joy Baker has posted a written transcript of one of the tapes on her most recent blog, www.joybaker.com[/QUOTE]

I have listened to these tapes many times....although poor acoustically, they sound authentic. Frustrating that the interiviewer jumps around and asks multiple questions prior to getting answers. Something I've done is to get on Google Earth and travel along the very road where the abduction occurred..I am amazed how far those boys travelled in the dark...it is still very desolate but does give one a sense of the logistics + risk of abducting a child at this location. It also gives visuals that one can in their imagination try to pinpoint the statements made in the tapes....for example: 'Ben' saying he saw the Bahner brothers emerging from the woods and also saying he + his dad saw the boys on their way to Tom Thumb, Michael Bahner stating cars were parked on the 'brush road', and Richard Bahner stating he rode bikes with Jacob Wetterling......would be interesting to pinpoint these locations on a map....of course this is all circumstantial.