George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #14 Friday July 12

[FrayedKnot]

Understanding florida is very important. Fears of problems is not from regular citizens, but from the large amount of gangs that are here. This little county alone has 13 known gangs and theres problems all time. Geez, I wish this had never happened. IMO

I grew up in Lake Co. My whole family lives in Lake, Seminole, Orange and Volusia. I understand Florida pretty well. :seeya: And I totally agree with you that I wish this had never happened.

 

[Chris_Texas]

The state witness RJ under direct told us that TM told her " HE AT HIS DADDY'S HOUSE.. "

Her direct quote from testimony.

He might well have believed that he was, or very close to it. I have often wondered if he was not searching for his house when they met.

 

[Mahouston69]

Excellent post, I wish I wrote as well as you. My objection here is to those who claim that self defense is not affirmative, and must simply be assumed once one mutters these magical words.

The defense has presented their claim and some evidence to support it. The prosecution has poked some holes in their story. The kid is dead, and it will be up to the jury to decide if they believe Zimmerman's version of events. If they don't, if they do not believe that Zimmerman is telling them the truth or that his claim does not match the evidence, they should find him guilty.

Agreed.
Straight and simple.
Prosecution proved GZ killed TM with intent by following, malice by his own recorded words.
If you believe GZ is credible, then you believe his claim of self defense.
If you do not find him credible, or a liar....then you do not believe his claim of self defense.
If you do not believe GZ or his claim of self defense, he is guilty.
Then they must decide ill will, depraved mind, intent, murder2
or accidental after putting them both in a dangerous situation. Manslaughter.

I do not believe GZ and I believe he put them both in a dangerous situation with no way out. But, he had the gun, of course he is winning. Regardless.
Manslaughter.

 

[faefrost]

In my opinion you are incorrect. Again, Zimmerman killed someone. He KILLED someone. He admits to doing so, but is saying that he should be given a pass for this particular killing.

Do you actually believe he has no further obligations other than to say the two words, "Self Defense"? That's what you are claiming. And no, don't respond by saying that Zimmerman did say more than just this, because that negates the original claim that this was unnecessary. According to the oft repeated 'Florida law' statement, Zimmerman never needed to say any more than these two magical words. According to some, a simple "Self Defense" statement somehow kicks all the burden onto the prosecution. Forget the corpse, he said it was self defense.

Apparently some believe that the prosecution must prove exactly what happened, and why, and what people were feeling, and they must somehow demonstrate that it was impossible for the killer to suffer some unspecified injury down the road -- perhaps a lightning strike due to the storm. Can you PROVE lightning was impossible? It was Florida after all. And apparently Zimmerman doesn't even have to claim he was afraid of lightning, the prosecution must still prove that this fear as well was unreasonable.

<mod snip>. It's not THEIR job to explain why Trayvon Martin is dead, it's the job of the guy who followed and killed him.

No, he killed someone. He pulled the trigger. That is a fact that both sides agree to. It is an action. It is not a crime. The crime is either Second Degree Murder or Manslaughter. The state must prove those crimes. There is more needed.

The defense has to put forth a reasonable argument for self defense. They did that in this case. The defendants clear injuries and the witness describing the "ground and pound" are sufficient. And the problem for the prosecution is that neither of those pieces of evidence can be touched via claims of Zimmerman lying. That's huge.

So the prosecution must prove a crime. They must present evidence that he deliberately and willfully sought to kill the young man, or that the death resulted from a grossly negligent or criminal act. A negligent act is not the same as bad judgement. Following the kid is bad judgement but not a criminally negligent act. Getting out of the car is bad judgement. Simply having the temerity to carry a weapon in a high crime area is not a crime. The state has a certain required burden. I am not sure they have met it hear. Zimmerman's acts of bad judgement may and most likely will be fodder for a civil lawsuit, but are not elements f criminal wrongdoing.

 

[cityslick]

TM was simply talking to his friend on the phone, GZ was "profiling a suspect". To me there is a difference.

TM called him a racial slur. GZ is not even white. If that's 'simply talking', then I don't know what to say.

 

[bellaalex]

Why are we even arguing about TM looking his age when GZ himself STATED in his call that he believed TM was in his late teens? So clearly TM looked like a teenager to GZ that night.

Teenager. Yes. Very different from child. A child could be as young as 4-5.
Yet the prosecution keeps calling TM a child or boy. Pulling the emotional strings of the jury instead of stating the facts. IMO. Using photos of when he was 12 instead of 17. BIG difference there IMO.

 

[defense101]

And we have minor children commit rape, robbery, murder etc. everyday in this country.

JMO

But he wasn't so that is a moot argument IMO

 

[iluvmua]

Just curious, how long did it take the CA jury? It's been so long that I have forgotten.

I believe it was only a couple of hours

 

[FrayedKnot]

A boy that had just made him fear for his life. My AA grandson would be highly offended at the insensitivity of calling him "boy". I don't think he would punch you for saying it though. JMO

I think a 17yo male is a boy, regardless of color. :moo:

 

[heyjude]

Justice for Trayvon and his family!

 

[FrayedKnot]

Teenager. Yes. Very different from child. A child could be as young as 4-5.
Yet the prosecution keeps calling TM a child or boy. Pulling the emotional strings of the jury instead of stating the facts. IMO. Using photos of when he was 12 instead of 17. BIG difference there IMO.

If you read any court documents regarding a person under the age of 18, they are referred to as "a minor child". It's legalese, not deception. :moo:

 

[cityslick]

Walking home from the store with Skittles and Fruit Punch no less. I wonder if he had bought cigarettes if the State would have mentioned it. I really wonder.

This point was made last night on AC360. Because skittles and fruit punch is more associated with kids, it makes TM seem more innocent, more boyish or childish. That's why the state keeps harping on it. If he was walking out with a newspaper or a can of RAID, you wouldn't hear about it as much.

 

[PaperDoll]

We only have GZ's word on that. TM got shot in the chest so he can't give us his side.

I agree and am sadden by this whole thing. TM has a story and no one can hear it so we have to go by GZ's story because he was there through beginning to end.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Walking home from the store with Skittles and Fruit Punch no less. I wonder if he had bought cigarettes if the State would have mentioned it. I really wonder.

You know what that can tells me and those skittles? That TM had the upper hand from the beginning. GZ never got a hand on him. No ripped shirt, No skittles spilled out, No can dented or even out of the pouch.

That to me says that TM went after GZ and GZ never had a chance to defend himself he was overpowered from the beginning..

OMO

 

[Foxfire]

I don't have a gun permit. Don't need one. In my state, we can walk around with 20+ fully-loaded guns strapped all over us for all the world to see.

Not trying to one up you, Zoe Bogart, but I lived in Kennesaw, GA, where it has been the law to own a firearm since the 1980s.. Virtually crime free city...



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kennesaw,_Georgia

'Kennesaw It's The LAW'..
In 2007, the city was selected by Family Circle magazine as one of the nation's "10 best towns for families".[3] The city is perhaps best known nationally for its mandatory gun-possession ordinance.[4]

 

[Just Sailing Thru]

My daughter just called me, her husband was called into police station and will be there until after verdict is read, and until there is certainty of calm...unless officials change the call to duty strategy..He is SWAT

 

[Moonie]

had to jump back in and remind those who complained about the prosecution's asking jurors to use common sense.... MOM ALSO asked them to use their common sense!!!!!

OOPS!

MOO

He also asked them not to judge GZ based on first impressions. Maybe GZ should have taken that into consideration the night he profiled and killed Trayvon. IJS.

 

[Just Sailing Thru]

He is in Coral Springs

 

[defense101]

Walking home from the store with Skittles and Fruit Punch no less. I wonder if he had bought cigarettes if the State would have mentioned it. I really wonder.

But he didn't so how does that have anything to do with anything, IMO still trying to make him out to be a

 

[RANCH]

Pretty much this. Do I think he could be convicted of Manslaughter? Yes, but only because the juror's will let emotion get in the way of evidence and jury instructions.

I wouldn't be surprised if the jury comes back with a "compromise verdict" of manslaughter. MOO.