George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin General Discussion #14 Friday July 12

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I'm sorry if my evidence based theories are tiresome. I will respond to assertions it couldn't have happened tho. Also, it's been said over and over and over TM made it home and went back out to some theory and misinterpreted words by RJ. Both the defense attorneys and prosecution agree he never made it home.

Not misinterpreted. ACTUAL WORDS.

It is one thing if she had only said "around" but she said AT. when asked again for the reporter she said AT again.

I have to let you know no one wanted more than me to see the murder proved. But it just isn't there. It isn't. Not enough that anything happened but how he said. And in this case the doubt always go for the defense.

 

[lisasalinger]

Okay folks...this is my first time posting even though I've been here through 3 trials.

The one thing that bothers me about this whole self-defense theory is this..........if GZ was so in fear of his life/injury, why did he take the time to carefully AIM his gun at TMs heart? In every statement, even in the re-enactment, he says he AIMED the gun. He went to great pains in one interview to explain how he took the time to make sure that the gun was beyond his OWN hand before he fired, so as not to hurt himself.

If someone has the awareness and capacity to AIM gun, if they have the awareness and capacity to not harm themselves, they have the awareness and capacity to aim that gun at a non life-threatening area, like a shoulder, arm, leg, etc.

They also have the awareness and capacity to say "Stop or I'll shoot".

If someone is in such a blind panic for their life, they pull the gun and fire anywhere, even in the air, just to get them to stop.

They don't take great pains to not injure themselves. They don't AIM for the HEART.

I don't know why the state didn't seize on those statements. Regardless of who did/didn't start the altercation, GZ didn't shoot to stop or incapacitate TM, he AIMED for the HEART.

MOO

BBM

There is no evidence of that (what I bolded). If somebody is on top of you, their chest would be directly in front of you. If you grab your gun with your right hand, you could just easily fire it off in to the chest without "carefully aiming". It's very plausible to me that he unintentionally hit the heart.

IMO

 

[Just K]

I am not sure he said he aimed for the heart, he just said he made sure he was beyond his other hand. People watch too much TV to think you can aim to wound and you always hit your target. IMO

I had friend a Police Officer who always shot in the high 90s and lots of 100s on the range got into a shooting where a guy came at them with a knife, the aim was center mass and the hit was the shoulder that was with the person about 4 ft away.

BBM: Sounds like maybe he had hold of TM's drawstring and/or hoodie doesn't it? TM's hoodie was off in the photo taken before Tim Smith arrived on the scene. Sounds like TM was pulling up and away.

IMO, GZ grabbed TM, Trayvon elbowed him in an effort to get away, GZ fell, bringing TM down on top of him...That is how I see the whole "altercation" beginning.

 

[Karmady]

If it was true, he could not have.

She also said George and his mother were racist. And we all know how that panned out.

jmo

 

[Footwarrior]

I'm sorry if my evidence based theories are tiresome. I will respond to assertions it couldn't have happened tho. Also, it's been said over and over and over TM made it home and went back out to some theory and misinterpreted words by RJ. Both the defense attorneys and prosecution agree he never made it home.

The mistake is assuming that what a witness says is either a fabrication or the literal truth. We need to remember that human memory isn't perfect. Nor do we always understand completely what another person is saying on the telephone. (If you ever played the game "Telephone" as a kid, you should understand this). RJ could easily have mistaken what TM said.

 

[bamcaan]

Was not trying to start an argument.

I just think that if GZ had the time and awareness to get out his gun and aim, he had the time and awareness to give TM a warning to stop or I'll shoot, which he has never did said he did...... or to aim somewhere differently.

This is why many of us never post. Some on here just cannot tolerate other opinions without trying to refute anything that they disagree with.

Back to just reading.

 

[Moonie]

It's quite popular "nowadays" (God, that makes me sound old!!) to sag a little. My son does the same thing. His pants fit him well (they aren't big and baggy whatsoever) but he does wear them down a little on his waist. I don't get the style AT ALL but whatever.

Yes, I know what you mean. I have a 19 year old son. I don't approve of that style either. Thank God, my son shares that same dislike and likes for his clothes to fit him properly. I do however have younger relatives who do like that style of dress. So I am very familiar with it. Like I said before, I do see the need for a belt on TM, but I don't think his pants were baggy enough to cause the skipping that was mentioned earlier. I've said enough about this area so I'm going to leave it alone now.

 

[Just Sailing Thru]

tweet from Kathi Belich-wftv OH in courtroom: O'Mara tells wife in gallery jury'll likely go til 8/9 tonight b4 break 4 night or verdict. @DanaChaabanWFTV #zimmermanon9

 

[sacrablue]

If my butt was in the hot seat and I heard a lawyer tell the jury to leave your common sense outside I would be getting nervous. IMO

 

[nnglas]

However the evidence shows he was home and then went away from that home. Back to where gz was. According to his friend who said it was Tim's own words.

It doesn't matter if it does not make sense if that is what happened.

Many people do things I would not do.

It doesn't matter to you. I already told you we should agree to disagree. There is no proof TM was at home. This is 3rd person understanding at best. RJ said he said "BY" his house. That could mean alot of things.


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[reedus23]

His shoving LE was due to the fact they were in plain clothes and he thought they were trying to hurt his friend. He didn't know they were LE.

I'm guessing MANY people in the neighborhood thought GZ was helpful or they wouldn't have risked their lives to defend him in court. Even from a sick bed!!!

I doubt I would regret saving my life from someone that attacked me.

I hope the next case I watch doesn't have us all so divided on evidence. I respect everyone's opinions. JMO

Serious question. Trying to understand Florida law. Would it be true then that as soon as he struck/shoved/whatever the LE, they could have shot him dead as long as they later said at the moment GZ made physical contact with them, they feared for their life?

 

[Truthy]

Which is why we are all wondering (IMO) why Trayvon decided to come back.

It does not make any sense.

That, coupled with the few versions of how Trayvon returned- jumping out of bushes-(that didn't exist) appearing out of nowhere (when GZ was using a flashlight), sucker punching him and leaving him on the ground- or maybe getting up again... IMHO... is why so many people do not find GZ the least bit credible. MOO

 

[selket]

I'm sorry if my evidence based theories are tiresome. I will respond to assertions it couldn't have happened tho. Also, it's been said over and over and over TM made it home and went back out to some theory and misinterpreted words by RJ. Both the defense attorneys and prosecution agree he never made it home.

Hi, normally I just lurk as everyone has said everything so well long before I get here, but I've seen this over & over & have a few questions to ask. If he had made it home why would he have the skittles & drink still with him? Why wouldn't he have left them at home? If he was home & he knew he was going out to confront someone why wouldn't he have grabbed a weapon? I'm sorry but I don't get this part, I don't see any evidence that says he made it home at all.

 

[RANCH]

Hi, normally I just lurk as everyone has said everything so well long before I get here, but I've seen this over & over & have a few questions to ask. If he had made it home why would he have the skittles & drink still with him? Why wouldn't he have left them at home? If he was home & he knew he was going out to confront someone why wouldn't he have grabbed a weapon? I'm sorry but I don't get this part, I don't see any evidence that says he made it home at all.

He didn't go inside. MOO.

 

[Karmady]

The mistake is assuming that what a witness says is either a fabrication or the literal truth. We need to remember that human memory isn't perfect. Nor do we always understand completely what another person is saying on the telephone. (If you ever played the game "Telephone" as a kid, you should understand this). RJ could easily have mistaken what TM said.

All of it, or just some of it?

 

[gxm]

BBM: Sounds like maybe he had hold of TM's drawstring and/or hoodie doesn't it? TM's hoodie was off in the photo taken before Tim Smith arrived on the scene. Sounds like TM was pulling up and away.

IMO, GZ grabbed TM, Trayvon elbowed him in an effort to get away, GZ fell, bringing TM down on top of him...That is how I see the whole "altercation" beginning.

The gunshot expert explained that the entry wound and the placement of the shot on TM's hoodie revealed that the garment was hanging down and was not being grabbed or stretched. JMO. OMO. MOO.

 

[SuperTmo]

Here's the video to see how baggy the pants are: Surveillance Video Shows Trayvon Martin At 7-Eleven On Night Of Shooting - YouTube

While certainly not as big as some I've seen it is obvious they are baggy and hanging. At :02 you get the first view of him reaching in his pocket for change and it goes nearly to his knee. At 1:02 you see him pull them back up and realize just how far they were down. You can keep watching and see it from other viewpoints. You can also look at the ankles to see how they are first sagged way down around the ankles which straightens out when he pulls them up at first.

his pants are not baggy. they are long, loose fitting khakis with intentionally long pockets. They don't fit him that badly, and they are above his butt, from what I saw in the first minute or two. Maybe I didn't watch long enough...

 

[nnglas]

Not misinterpreted. ACTUAL WORDS.

It is one thing if she had only said "around" but she said AT. when asked again for the reporter she said AT again.

I have to let you know no one wanted more than me to see the murder proved. But it just isn't there. It isn't. Not enough that anything happened but how he said. And in this case the doubt always go for the defense.

She said "BY". RJ can't tell you where he was that night. She can only tell you what he said. He said "BY" his house. Again that could mean something different from TM, RJ, you, or me. There is no evidence that he left his home to go back and confront GZ. None.


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[ScarlettScarpetta]

It doesn't matter to you. I already told you we should agree to disagree. There is no proof TM was at home. This is 3rd person understanding at best. RJ said he said "BY" his house. That could mean alot of things.


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No I'm sorry. She TM said AT. not BY. If you want to make a good decision you have to at the very least be accurate with the evidence.

 

[Truthy]

Serious question. Trying to understand Florida law. Would it be true then that as soon as he struck/shoved/whatever the LE, they could have shot him dead as long as they later said at the moment GZ made physical contact with them, they feared for their life?

they would have to show their fear was "reasonable" . when MOM said you could claim that having NO injuries, he was technically correct- but the other person would need to have a gun trained on you or some other way to kill you right then. Not that they throw a scare into you.