GUILTY CA - Terry Smith, 11, autistic, Menifee, 6 July 2013

[2Hip2BSquare]

It is dicey but I'm not saying that by 16 they should have it all figured out or that all teens 16 and over should be tried as adults. My 20 year old brother-in-law can barely wipe his behind. I don't think 16 year olds are adults at all.

But for me, it's a case by case basis. For example let's say a 16 year old murders someone and then goes and gets hamburgers afterwards, sleeps well, laughs about the crime. Let's say there was a ton of planning involved. Let's say that 16 year old already has a pretty long rap sheet. I think trying that kid as an adult makes some sense. I don't know that that kid has any chance at rehabilitation. Now it becomes about protecting society rather than the kid.

BTW, ballots requiring parental notification of abortions have been rejected by voters in California three, separate times. And trying teens as adults would not change child abuse laws. Being able to try a teen as an adult simply determines that a minor may be treated as an adult in certain, limited, specific circumstances. It doesn't change the age when someone is still a minor.

I'm aware it won't change anything by default, but what I'm saying is it is completely contradictory to the idea that children are innocent due to psychological dependence on a caretaker and that caretaker has responsibility for the dependent child.

It's not like this 16 year old has a mortgage, car payment, rent, a full time job with benefits. He hasn't really hit that milestone at which you would consider someone an independent responsible adult that is solely responsible for his own emotional/physical/financial livelihood.

 

[ArianeEmory]

I'm wondering if the people who don't think teens should be tried as adults feel the same about Jessica Ridgeway's killer, Austin Sigg (17) or Autumn Pasquale's teenage killers?

I don't have an agenda, I just don't remember this being brought up in those cases--maybe there was debate and I just forgot.

 

[Elley Mae]

I believe that at this time it seems to be jealousy as the reason. jmo idk I have looked and found his picture/image on line and he appears to be a bright,happy and not bad looking 16 year old. jmo I don't know about his state of mind, how well he did in school or if he may have been a drop out. At this time I believe if what I think is true than he should be considered an adult.jmo

 

[dulcinea]

New article at pe.com alludes to the fact that the 16 yr old was prone to violent outbursts and in violation of probation. Details of these incidents were not disclosed. No decision has been reached regarding whether or not he will be charged as an adult.

 

[gitana1]

I'm wondering if the people who don't think teens should be tried as adults feel the same about Jessica Ridgeway's killer, Austin Sigg (17) or Autumn Pasquale's teenage killers?

I don't have an agenda, I just don't remember this being brought up in those cases--maybe there was debate and I just forgot.

As I said, I'm on the fence. It's case by case. austin sigg has all the makings of a serial killer. Jessica was not his first, attempted victim. Jessica's murder was planned and not a sudden rage thing, IMO, because he had tried (with planning - chloroform), to get another victim previously. This was far different from a kid exploding at home, to me. Also, sigg is slightly older. So I agree with trying him as an adult. His crime was very adult.

But every factor needs to be examined.

I don;t know enough about the Pasquale case to say.

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

New article at pe.com alludes to the fact that the 16 yr old was prone to violent outbursts and in violation of probation. Details of these incidents were not disclosed. No decision has been reached regarding whether or not he will be charged as an adult.

Here's the article mentioned.



MENIFEE: Teen charged with murder had ‘history of violent outbursts’

A 16-year-old Menifee boy charged with murder in the death of his younger brother had his first hearing in juvenile court Monday, July 15, where the judge made a reference to his “history of violent outbursts” and ordered him to remain in custody.

[snip]

The judge rescheduled the detention hearing for Sept. 17 at the Southwest Justice Center in French Valley.

[snip]

No determination was made about whether S may be tried as an adult. A judge will make that decision at a later date, Hall said.

[snip]

After the remains were discovered and S was questioned by investigators, the teen claimed his little brother had fallen and hit his head on the coffee table, Smith said.

More: http://blog.pe.com/2013/07/15/menifee-teen-charged-with-murder-had-history-of-violent-outbursts/

 

[JDSamIam]

Here's the article mentioned.



MENIFEE: Teen charged with murder had ‘history of violent outbursts’

A 16-year-old Menifee boy charged with murder in the death of his younger brother had his first hearing in juvenile court Monday, July 15, where the judge made a reference to his “history of violent outbursts” and ordered him to remain in custody.

[snip]

The judge rescheduled the detention hearing for Sept. 17 at the Southwest Justice Center in French Valley.

[snip]

No determination was made about whether S may be tried as an adult. A judge will make that decision at a later date, Hall said.

[snip]

After the remains were discovered and S was questioned by investigators, the teen claimed his little brother had fallen and hit his head on the coffee table, Smith said.

More: http://blog.pe.com/2013/07/15/menifee-teen-charged-with-murder-had-history-of-violent-outbursts/

Too bad that's not what happened. IMO.

 

[JDSamIam]

Here's the article mentioned.



MENIFEE: Teen charged with murder had ‘history of violent outbursts’

A 16-year-old Menifee boy charged with murder in the death of his younger brother had his first hearing in juvenile court Monday, July 15, where the judge made a reference to his “history of violent outbursts” and ordered him to remain in custody.

[snip]

The judge rescheduled the detention hearing for Sept. 17 at the Southwest Justice Center in French Valley.

[snip]

No determination was made about whether S may be tried as an adult. A judge will make that decision at a later date, Hall said.

[snip]

After the remains were discovered and S was questioned by investigators, the teen claimed his little brother had fallen and hit his head on the coffee table, Smith said.

More: http://blog.pe.com/2013/07/15/menifee-teen-charged-with-murder-had-history-of-violent-outbursts/

There in lies the truth. Terrie's Dad, and other sources have said it HAS to be a closed casket funeral or cremation. A hit to the head on a coffee table does not explain this away. My opinion stands.

 

[MsFacetious]

He hit his head on a coffee table?!?!?
He was ELEVEN years old... not 1 year old! :facepalm:

 

[Kaliste]

There in lies the truth. Terrie's Dad, and other sources have said it HAS to be a closed casket funeral or cremation. A hit to the head on a coffee table does not explain this away. My opinion stands.

He was also partially buried in a shallow grave in one of the hottest areas of SoCal during a heat wave. I can't imagine a body would hold up well in those conditions RIP Terry.

 

[song22]

This case is heartbreaking. I follow a lot of cases here, but quietly. This case has triggered a lot of painful thoughts for me. My son is bipolar. It's a controversial diagnosis, I know and brings up a lot of heated points of view. I'm just sharing my two cents. We can't possibly diagnose anyone on a forum and that is not at all what I am doing. But when children/teens are the perpetrators of crimes my mental illness radar kicks into high gear. I see a difference between Austin Sigg and the planning and calculated (study of forensics, cloroform etc) nature of his crimes and situations like this one and the case of the 11 year old boy who stabbed his sister in California. In this case when I hear about a history of "violent outbursts" I'm thinking of my own son's history. My son is now medicated and doing wonderfully. He is a great student and has lots of friends. He is very empathetic toward others and an all around great person. But when he was not medicated or when his medications are not at therapeutic levels (growth spurt) he has violent outbursts. He could definitely kill someone in those rages. He has no empathy in the midst of those rages. It is terrifying and heartbreaking.

It makes me sad that most of society and so many parents still do not understand mental illness. I know there is a very real problem with indiscriminately medicating children in many situations--but there is also a very real problem of parents and other adults refusing to medicate or get mental health treatment for kids with these behaviors. It makes people upset to label something a mental illness, because it seems like then we are teaching the kid that it's not their fault. Like they have an excuse. It feels like a cop out to a lot of people.

Then there is the very real problem of accessing help for kids with violent behaviors. When our child first started showing disturbing signs, We were sent to a psychologist. We did parenting exercises where we practiced telling our son what to do and he practiced complying. But that was not the problem at all. He was very obedient and sweet, until the moment a switch went off and he was talking with a demon voice and going for the knives. No amount of therapy was going to help. It took us a year to get him medication and in that time we were on our own. We had to manage his violent outbursts and protect ourselves and our other children and not give up on seeking help for our son. We were determined because we educated ourselves about the issue. Some parents just aren't or are stuck in a different mind-set. We see lost of kids now in the schools who are throwing their desks or behaving outrageously and the parents just won't entertain the idea that the kids might need treatment for a mental illness. They just think the kid is oppositional or defiant.

Just my two cents. This case has brought these painful thoughts to mind. If my son had never been medicated or if we took him off all his medications, he could definitely kill someone. I love him, but this is the heartbreaking truth.

I have no idea if this is the case here. But it's always a possibility in many of these cases where children are perpetrators. We as a society have got to do more to educate parents and provide better resources. JMO

 

[longtallcold]

song, that was very insightful, thank you for sharing.

 

[kkdj]

This case is heartbreaking. I follow a lot of cases here, but quietly. This case has triggered a lot of painful thoughts for me. My son is bipolar. It's a controversial diagnosis, I know and brings up a lot of heated points of view. I'm just sharing my two cents. We can't possibly diagnose anyone on a forum and that is not at all what I am doing. But when children/teens are the perpetrators of crimes my mental illness radar kicks into high gear. I see a difference between Austin Sigg and the planning and calculated (study of forensics, cloroform etc) nature of his crimes and situations like this one and the case of the 11 year old boy who stabbed his sister in California. In this case when I hear about a history of "violent outbursts" I'm thinking of my own son's history. My son is now medicated and doing wonderfully. He is a great student and has lots of friends. He is very empathetic toward others and an all around great person. But when he was not medicated or when his medications are not at therapeutic levels (growth spurt) he has violent outbursts. He could definitely kill someone in those rages. He has no empathy in the midst of those rages. It is terrifying and heartbreaking.

It makes me sad that most of society and so many parents still do not understand mental illness. I know there is a very real problem with indiscriminately medicating children in many situations--but there is also a very real problem of parents and other adults refusing to medicate or get mental health treatment for kids with these behaviors. It makes people upset to label something a mental illness, because it seems like then we are teaching the kid that it's not their fault. Like they have an excuse. It feels like a cop out to a lot of people.

Then there is the very real problem of accessing help for kids with violent behaviors. When our child first started showing disturbing signs, We were sent to a psychologist. We did parenting exercises where we practiced telling our son what to do and he practiced complying. But that was not the problem at all. He was very obedient and sweet, until the moment a switch went off and he was talking with a demon voice and going for the knives. No amount of therapy was going to help. It took us a year to get him medication and in that time we were on our own. We had to manage his violent outbursts and protect ourselves and our other children and not give up on seeking help for our son. We were determined because we educated ourselves about the issue. Some parents just aren't or are stuck in a different mind-set. We see lost of kids now in the schools who are throwing their desks or behaving outrageously and the parents just won't entertain the idea that the kids might need treatment for a mental illness. They just think the kid is oppositional or defiant.

Just my two cents. This case has brought these painful thoughts to mind. If my son had never been medicated or if we took him off all his medications, he could definitely kill someone. I love him, but this is the heartbreaking truth.

I have no idea if this is the case here. But it's always a possibility in many of these cases where children are perpetrators. We as a society have got to do more to educate parents and provide better resources. JMO

I applaud you and your husband for getting out there and getting your son the right kind of help. Its so heartbreaking to watch our loved ones struggle with this kind of thing.
I have a cousin who was diagnosed as paranoid schizophrenic as a teen. Hes been in and out of institutions and is doing much better for now. But not until after he and his family had gone thru quite a bit, until he was on the right balances of meds.
When I heard of this case and the brother with violent outbursts I too wondered if there was some kind of mental illness or something that could have been treated.
such a sad case...

 

[Red Owl]

Interesting threads on Justice for Terry FB group page. It is a closed group page , but you can be added. I know I cannot say what on here, but very interesting clues on that page.

 

[AstroKitty]

i'm a member of 2 groups on FB and it's rather "interesting" to say the least. This is one of the few cases that I followed from the start (usually I'm days late) and before FB pages of the accused etc were shut down. I've had a terrible "icky" feeling with this case. Terrible

 

[MsFacetious]

I REALLY want to read what people have to say on facebook.
However, my brain just CANNOT handle the spelling and grammar mistakes.
It drives me nuts because I know a lot of it is likely using a phone/auto correct.
It just gives me a headache and I can't handle reading it. Can't even decipher half of it.

 

[AstroKitty]

I REALLY want to read what people have to say on facebook.
However, my brain just CANNOT handle the spelling and grammar mistakes.
It drives me nuts because I know a lot of it is likely using a phone/auto correct.
It just gives me a headache and I can't handle reading it. Can't even decipher half of it.

oh I so know how you feel. my shift key works at random moments, so currently i feel like one of those people. the pages concerning this case aren't so bad for spelling (well, minus a few), the majority aren't so bad though. i don't comment - I just read. I feel like commenting on fb to cases like this is pushing it, since I use my real fb. People are kooky and you never know who you might upset.

 

[JDSamIam]

WOW! Mom won't give up Terry's dental records for body ID, and NOW the half sister removed from home by CPD?? WTF is going on in this story?!?!?!

http://www.menifee247.com/

 

[floridamomma]

I REALLY want to read what people have to say on facebook.
However, my brain just CANNOT handle the spelling and grammar mistakes.
It drives me nuts because I know a lot of it is likely using a phone/auto correct.
It just gives me a headache and I can't handle reading it. Can't even decipher half of it.

I just left the Elaina FB group for that very reason!! Makes my freaking eyeballs bleed! :banghead:

 

[dulcinea]

Why wouldn't she tell them where to get dental records from? I don't understand. Can she be charged with obstruction or anything like that for not cooperating? I hope to God I am not called for jury duty for this case...