GUILTY CA - Terry Smith, 11, autistic, Menifee, 6 July 2013

[Angels_Not_Forgotten]

I'm just wondering if his dad could send them. I mean, if he spent most of his life with his dad, maybe she doesn't have any? Why doesn't she just say so if that's the case? I don't know what's going on to be honest. Its all a little...off...

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[Magdalyn]

WOW! Mom won't give up Terry's dental records for body ID, and NOW the half sister removed from home by CPD?? WTF is going on in this story?!?!?!

http://www.menifee247.com/

Hmm. If the father had primary custody for the bulk of Terry's life, did he not take Terry to the dentist in the last year or two? I'm a former dental assistant. While kids do lose teeth and adult ones come in changing the 'oral landscape' if you will, any x-rays taken in the last few years would probably work so long as he had a handful of adult teeth as landmarks. Even if he had no fillings to compare, the structure of his adult teeth, angles of his adult teeth, etc., would be unique to Terry.

Any dentist Terry has seen---near his dad or his mom---- would/should have possession of original x-rays. They have to retain them until age of majority. They can toss adult records after 6 or 7 years. Even when you leave a dentist, they generally give you or forward to another dentist copies of your x-rays. Not originals.

Also, legally speaking, I would think that even if the dentist was local to mom, if dad is a legal guardian, I don't see why HE can't request of the dentist that x-rays be forwarded to the coroner. And I can't see why a dentist wouldn't comply/on what grounds he would refuse to comply.

This all just sounds odd to me. :twocents:

 

[Magdalyn]

Why wouldn't she tell them where to get dental records from? I don't understand. Can she be charged with obstruction or anything like that for not cooperating? I hope to God I am not called for jury duty for this case...

If mom doesn't want to say where she took him to the dentist, if she took him to the dentist, I'm betting the daughter knows, seeing as she likely went there too.

 

[Donjeta]

It seems rather pointless anyway. All that can be achieved is stall a few days but they're just going to use DNA to identify him. And it seems like they'd have to explain a dead body in their yard even if it was some other boy.

 

[Donjeta]

Also, legally speaking, I would think that even if the dentist was local to mom, if dad is a legal guardian, I don't see why HE can't request of the dentist that x-rays be forwarded to the coroner. And I can't see why a dentist wouldn't comply/on what grounds he would refuse to comply.

This all just sounds odd to me. :twocents:

Seems like the problem is that they don't know which dentist to ask.

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Even if they found the right dentist, dentists are bound by HIPAA. I don't think they could release his records without parental consent (which it sounds like she won't give) or a warrant.

 

[Magdalyn]

Even if they found the right dentist, dentists are bound by HIPAA. I don't think they could release his records without parental consent (which it sounds like she won't give) or a warrant.

Not being sarcastic here, I swear! Is Terry's father not his parent?

ETA: I know when I request medical records/dental records of my kids, doctors and dentists don't ask for both legal parents to sign for them. One parent should be sufficient.

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Not being sarcastic here, I swear! Is Terry's father not his parent?

ETA: I know when I request medical records/dental records of my kids, doctors and dentists don't ask for both legal parents to sign for them. One parent should be sufficient.

Yes, but the article linked just a little bit ago (http://www.menifee247.com/) says:

"He said he does not have the dental records".

Not that he couldn't sign for them if they asked him to. (But honestly, there's so much back and forth between the parents I'm not sure who has legal rights to do anything at this point.)

However, I've been reading up on the "rights" of a deceased person regarding HIPAA and Protected Health Information. It sounds like they could access Terry's records after all. If they knew where to get them, or if there are any.

covered entities may disclose protected health information to (1) funeral directors as necessary for them to carry out their duties, consistent with applicable law and (2) coroners or medical examiners to identify a deceased person, determine the cause of death, and perform other duties authorized by law

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2013/rpt/2013-R-0124.htm

No parental consent required.

 

[Magdalyn]

Yes, but the article linked just a little bit ago (http://www.menifee247.com/) says:

"He said he does not have the dental records".

Not that he couldn't sign for them if they asked him to. (But honestly, there's so much back and forth between the parents I'm not sure who has legal rights to do anything at this point.)

However, I've been reading up on the "rights" of a deceased person regarding HIPAA and Protected Health Information. It sounds like they could access Terry's records after all. If they knew where to get them, or if there are any.


No parental consent required.

BBM: That was a thought I had.

I just thought it all just sounded very odd.

Almost none of us 'have' our-- our kids-- dental records on hand. Our dentist keeps them! And when we move/change dentists, they forward copies of the x-rays, the charting, etc., most often directly to the new DDS. But they retain the originals on children always, until they are no longer children, even if the patient no longer goes there. They just put old records in archives.

Just going on his word--that he's had the majority of custody and he does not have 'THE records', is he implying he never took him to the dentist? That only mom did and just in the last year or so? Or can dad not remember any dentist he took Terry to either who might have some x-rays? Because those might work too. :banghead:

 

[gitana1]

This case is heartbreaking. I follow a lot of cases here, but quietly. This case has triggered a lot of painful thoughts for me. My son is bipolar. It's a controversial diagnosis, I know and brings up a lot of heated points of view. I'm just sharing my two cents. We can't possibly diagnose anyone on a forum and that is not at all what I am doing. But when children/teens are the perpetrators of crimes my mental illness radar kicks into high gear. I see a difference between Austin Sigg and the planning and calculated (study of forensics, cloroform etc) nature of his crimes and situations like this one and the case of the 11 year old boy who stabbed his sister in California. In this case when I hear about a history of "violent outbursts" I'm thinking of my own son's history. My son is now medicated and doing wonderfully. He is a great student and has lots of friends. He is very empathetic toward others and an all around great person. But when he was not medicated or when his medications are not at therapeutic levels (growth spurt) he has violent outbursts. He could definitely kill someone in those rages. He has no empathy in the midst of those rages. It is terrifying and heartbreaking.

It makes me sad that most of society and so many parents still do not understand mental illness. I know there is a very real problem with indiscriminately medicating children in many situations--but there is also a very real problem of parents and other adults refusing to medicate or get mental health treatment for kids with these behaviors. It makes people upset to label something a mental illness, because it seems like then we are teaching the kid that it's not their fault. Like they have an excuse. It feels like a cop out to a lot of people.

Then there is the very real problem of accessing help for kids with violent behaviors. When our child first started showing disturbing signs, We were sent to a psychologist. We did parenting exercises where we practiced telling our son what to do and he practiced complying. But that was not the problem at all. He was very obedient and sweet, until the moment a switch went off and he was talking with a demon voice and going for the knives. No amount of therapy was going to help. It took us a year to get him medication and in that time we were on our own. We had to manage his violent outbursts and protect ourselves and our other children and not give up on seeking help for our son. We were determined because we educated ourselves about the issue. Some parents just aren't or are stuck in a different mind-set. We see lost of kids now in the schools who are throwing their desks or behaving outrageously and the parents just won't entertain the idea that the kids might need treatment for a mental illness. They just think the kid is oppositional or defiant.

Just my two cents. This case has brought these painful thoughts to mind. If my son had never been medicated or if we took him off all his medications, he could definitely kill someone. I love him, but this is the heartbreaking truth.

I have no idea if this is the case here. But it's always a possibility in many of these cases where children are perpetrators. We as a society have got to do more to educate parents and provide better resources. JMO

Your story is profound and enlightening. Thank you.

Interesting threads on Justice for Terry FB group page. It is a closed group page , but you can be added. I know I cannot say what on here, but very interesting clues on that page.

Justice for Terry Smith is open for anyone to view and post.

WOW! Mom won't give up Terry's dental records for body ID, and NOW the half sister removed from home by CPD?? WTF is going on in this story?!?!?!

http://www.menifee247.com/

The dad, if he is listed as the girl's legal father on the birth certificate, etc., could be given custody of the girl if he is found fit by CPS.

I'm just wondering if his dad could send them. I mean, if he spent most of his life with his dad, maybe she doesn't have any? Why doesn't she just say so if that's the case? I don't know what's going on to be honest. Its all a little...off...

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My sense is that dad doesn't have a lot of money and perhaps could never afford to take Terry to the dentist. That is a lot more common than you might think.

I agree with whoever stated mom is not revealing who Terry's dentist is. Sorry, but if that's true, she's got some serious issues. Based on what I'm hearing about her - goes out to bars leaving her child with her troubled teenager, lies about her missing son's condition, has BBQ's and whatever when her son is missing, won't allow the dad to bring their son back home to Virginia, won't release dental records, CPS removal of her other child, etc., there are some issues there.

 

[JDSamIam]

All I am saying is, something smells rotten about this whole case. I seriously hope they are looking into the Mom and her partner.

 

[sophiebelle]

I'm sure they should be able to get some DNA to identify him, other than his teeth. How do they identify people that are found years later and the teeth are not with the body? Is everything they need to identify him a medical request? I guess families of most missing people cooperate.

 

[SCHMAE]

What the heck?
Can Terry just REST IN PEACE ? Isn't enough some took his life early?
Can he just have one speck of decency from his mother so he can be laid to REST ?
Imagine what his life was like in that home ......now that you know how little anyone
seemed to care about his very existence
I'm so sorry little young man. I'm so sorry you weren't cared for and clearly are not missed by those you trusted. We miss you kiddo. We love you !

 

[AstroKitty]

I've followed this case both on here and on social networks. This is just commentary, I have nothing to contribute on theories; but this case just outright disgusts me on every single level. I know we've all read a case that it seems the child or adult never once had ANY semblance of safety or sanity surrounding them - but I swear this takes the cake. I think what we are seeing now, after his death is just a small glance as to how chaotic and sad his life was. I'm beyond disgusted. Beyond. I am probably in the minority here but most of my disgust lays with all these rumors, rudeness and all around insanity coming from the paternal side. I swear I've never read a case where people, adults, behave so barbaric! I just don't comprehend the thought process of "helpful" and "for the betterment" adult women that are seriously threatening to beat the mother up! It's situations like these that I'm glad I've learned a filter of sorts due to the rules here at WS. I'm not sure if my comment even really goes here but it's driving me mad not to at least say my 2 cents.
I've also never witnessed so many people calling one person the devil in flesh and another a total saint, whilst money being the MAIN topic of conversation. The Saint has the hand out for everything. I feel so bad for Terry and I hope if there is an afterlife, he's found peace because it doesn't seem like he's ever known it in his life.
I'm also very confused on the press around this case. I've read more retractions from the local paper than ever in my entire life. At this point, from all I can gather - there is no movement in the case. The brother is in custody and the body hasn't been released. I think anything more is people stirring the pot. IMO

 

[SCHMAE]

I've followed this case both on here and on social networks. This is just commentary, I have nothing to contribute on theories; but this case just outright disgusts me on every single level. I know we've all read a case that it seems the child or adult never once had ANY semblance of safety or sanity surrounding them - but I swear this takes the cake. I think what we are seeing now, after his death is just a small glance as to how chaotic and sad his life was. I'm beyond disgusted. Beyond. I am probably in the minority here but most of my disgust lays with all these rumors, rudeness and all around insanity coming from the paternal side. I swear I've never read a case where people, adults, behave so barbaric! I just don't comprehend the thought process of "helpful" and "for the betterment" adult women that are seriously threatening to beat the mother up! It's situations like these that I'm glad I've learned a filter of sorts due to the rules here at WS. I'm not sure if my comment even really goes here but it's driving me mad not to at least say my 2 cents.
I've also never witnessed so many people calling one person the devil in flesh and another a total saint, whilst money being the MAIN topic of conversation. The Saint has the hand out for everything. I feel so bad for Terry and I hope if there is an afterlife, he's found peace because it doesn't seem like he's ever known it in his life.
I'm also very confused on the press around this case. I've read more retractions from the local paper than ever in my entire life. At this point, from all I can gather - there is no movement in the case. The brother is in custody and the body hasn't been released. I think anything more is people stirring the pot. IMO

I believe that he is fine now. I believe he's having the joy and safety and comfort that is 10 times greater than he had on earth. Don't worry about the little guy now. He's free

 

[sophiebelle]

I stated way back in this thread that dad was not doing the right thing with his blasting. I feel like nobody protected any of the children in this family. Not sure if it's something from the parents past that snowballed into this, or if it's ignorance. The fighting and arguing are probably normal, and these children only knew that. Who knows what kind of life any of them have had? My bet it's been bad from way back. It's too late for the blame game, the damage is done. I first felt pity for the dad of Terry, but he's done so much mouthing off in public, that I disregard him now.

 

[cocomod]

I cannot say how I would react if my son was killed while in the care of an ex-spouse that was making decisions that I disagreed with. I am still holding this father as a victim that is hurting deeply. He may not be reacting with finesse, but who would under the same circumstances. I still believe the mother has a great deal more to answer for in this situation. IMHO :moo:

 

[AngelWings444]

I cannot say how I would react if my son was killed while in the care of an ex-spouse that was making decisions that I disagreed with. I am still holding this father as a victim that is hurting deeply. He may not be reacting with finesse, but who would under the same circumstances. I still believe the mother has a great deal more to answer for in this situation. IMHO :moo:

Thank you! I was feeling the same way. Dad is a victim! If my child was killed on my ex's watch, I wouldn't have nice things to say either. Especially, if my ex-spouse knew there was a violent history with one son and left my son, who is autistic, with the violent brother. All to go out and play pool. We don't know all the details yet, but being in another state and having your child murdered under these circumstances (by a family member) can't be easy. If the report that the Mom wouldn't allow LE to search her property is true, I would be so angry. JMO

 

[MsFacetious]

Volunteer Appreciation Night

https://www.facebook.com/FindTerrySmith

 

[nikb]

In case this hasn't been linked yet:
http://blog.pe.com/2013/07/24/menifee-slain-boy-had-troubled-home-life-father-says/

"MENIFEE: Father invites public to Terry Smith Jr. memorial"

Sorry if it's a repeat but I hadn't seen it.

ETA: "The event is scheduled for 6:30 p.m. Thursday, July 25, at Lamb’s Fellowship, 21901 Railroad Canyon Road."