GUILTY PA - Husband charged in cyanide poisoning death of Dr. Autumn Klein

[LynnM]

Retreading the indictment, the guy gets uglier. When I first glommed onto this case, I kept staring at his kind and intelligent face, wondering how this could be, but now I read his face so differently, and my heart truly breaks that innocent people could so cruelly suffer.

This is really bothering me too. I've never known anyone who committed murder before. I liked RF when I met him eight years ago. One of his research collaborators from Northwest said in a newspaper article that he was a sweet guy who was always talking enthusiastically about his wife and young daughter. He feels certain that he is innocent. However, it is looking very bad for RF now though and I just cannot fathom how a man can get to be 64 years old, get angry at his wife, hold onto that anger long enough to order cyanide and kill her in a cruel and heinous manner, and take his daughter's mother away from her. He is known for having a temper. He wrote me an angry email when he didn't like an article I wrote about his work (and I still don't understand this because the article was both accurate and complimentary!). But lots of people are quick to get angry and they express themselves and that is the end of it. I just feel like I want to understand how something like this could happen.

 

[colette]

The Young Turks talk about this case. Wait for the last line on the clip, it's worth it.

Cyanide Used To Kill Neurologist, Husband Arrested - YouTube

 

[time]

I actually disagree. She was on life support and a reperfusion machine. When someone is in this state in the hospital an arterial blood gas is done (many of them actually) to check the acid base balance and the above article indicated that her blood was bright red and she was acidotic. Those two things combined alone would tip them off to run tests for poisons such as cyanide. This was a young woman with no history of cardiac problems as far as I am aware?:twocents::twocents:

His downfall was that he was not an MD. He was, however, narcisscistic and thought he knew what they would do in an emergency situation. I am so glad to hear that he was arrested!

I don't see how your post contradicts the main point I think JJ was making - Ferrante probably didn't think they would test for cyanide. Maybe some articles have led people to believe (such as me) that the cyanide test was kind of an unlikely add on as a test whereas it's unlikely someone gets poisoned by cyanide.

Blood drawn from Klein had high levels of acid so doctors had it tested for cyanide as a precaution, even noting it was unlikely, the police complaint said.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...ccused-of-poisoning-doctor-wife-with-cyanide/

 

[time]

The Young Turks talk about this case. Wait for the last line on the clip, it's worth it.

I doubt dating had anything to do with Ferrante's motive or mental state. Is that the line you are referring to? For me, it was not worth it if so!!

 

[shannahg]

I think she means the sentence about him having to do the dating game in prison now.

 

[colette]

I doubt dating had anything to do with Ferrante's motive or mental state. Is that the line you are referring to? For me, it was not worth it if so!!

At the end Cenk says " and now he's going to have to get into the dating game in prison"

No I don't think dating had anything to do with the murder either.

 

[nursebeeme]

I don't see how your post contradicts the main point I think JJ was making - Ferrante probably didn't think they would test for cyanide. Maybe some articles have led people to believe (such as me) that the cyanide test was kind of an unlikely add on as a test whereas it's unlikely someone gets poisoned by cyanide.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_...ccused-of-poisoning-doctor-wife-with-cyanide/

where I disagreed was with the medical rationale for the testing (not the reason why this guy would think he could outsmart the system.. I agree there 100%)

obviously if someone tagged it on for testing someone thought outside of the box with the available medical data from her labwork and results.

I am an ICU nurse and I have seen many a professional coworker (beit doctor or nurse) collaborate to check other avenues when the data supports it. I could get into how insurance companies tie our hands a lot but this is not the thread for that hahahaha.

 

[time]

where I disagreed was with the medical rationale for the testing (not the reason why this guy would think he could outsmart the system.. I agree there 100%)

obviously if someone tagged it on for testing someone thought outside of the box with the available medical data from her labwork and results.

I am an ICU nurse and I have seen many a professional coworker (beit doctor or nurse) collaborate to check other avenues when the data supports it. I could get into how insurance companies tie our hands a lot but this is not the thread for that hahahaha.

Oh, ok, thank you! I appreciate your expertise. I hear ya on the medical insurance limitations.

 

[Aristotle]

Maybe you guys who sound like medical and biological experts, can help me with something.. I guess there is no fact sheet on cyanide poisoning. I would think they'd search his web access on cyanide, but how much can one know about how a person reacts to a poison.

1.) if he thought she would die immediately. as i expect..and he did wait at least ten minutes while she was In trouble (as if to wait for her to die) ..wouldn't they do the autopsy he didnt want, when she arrived at the hospital?

2.) could he anticipate she would live, and if so, why wait to call 911?

3.) Given that she did not die suddenly, what would have happened if he hadn't called 911..said he was upstairs and didnt know about the attack.

Thanks in advance..

 

[nursebeeme]

just my nurse thoughts here but I think that

1) he thought she would die right away and that is why he asked to have her taken to the other hospital that was not a trauma center

2) I think he called 911 to cover his _____ <-----you know what

3) I think he gave her the poison and watched her collapse and called 911 while she was moaning, etc.. thinking she wouldn't make it to the hospital alive.


I personally think he underestimated the ER of the receiving hospital... they put her on a reperfusion machine after a long code situation. Clearly he was not expecting that. He most likely didn't even expect her to make it long enough to be intubated (blood gases are taken at this point and even to start) and they found she was acidotic. I wouldn't be surprised if it with the reperfusionist that noticed the cherry red color of the blood (I am an open heart nurse and work with reperfusionists all the time.. and I could see this collaboration being part of what cracked this wide open)

 

[Aristotle]

Thank you! Would they not do an autopsy on a person dead on arrival, though? With such an unexpected death? Or does the kind of hospital make the difference?

 

[Aristotle]

I think I'm only beginning to realize that an autopsy would not reveal cyanide poisoning? It required measuring the gases in the blood? ??? (And no, I am not planning to poison anyone)

 

[southernnana]

:nurse:


nursebeeme, thank you very much for the post shown below as well as your posts #280 and #287. It is important to hear from members with professional experience, such as yourself, who can actually describe details of what the scenarios may have been like.

just my nurse thoughts here but I think that

1) he thought she would die right away and that is why he asked to have her taken to the other hospital that was not a trauma center

2) I think he called 911 to cover his _____ <-----you know what

3) I think he gave her the poison and watched her collapse and called 911 while she was moaning, etc.. thinking she wouldn't make it to the hospital alive.


I personally think he underestimated the ER of the receiving hospital... they put her on a reperfusion machine after a long code situation. Clearly he was not expecting that. He most likely didn't even expect her to make it long enough to be intubated (blood gases are taken at this point and even to start) and they found she was acidotic. I wouldn't be surprised if it with the reperfusionist that noticed the cherry red color of the blood (I am an open heart nurse and work with reperfusionists all the time.. and I could see this collaboration being part of what cracked this wide open)

 

[jjenny]

I actually disagree. She was on life support and a reperfusion machine. When someone is in this state in the hospital an arterial blood gas is done (many of them actually) to check the acid base balance and the above article indicated that her blood was bright red and she was acidotic. Those two things combined alone would tip them off to run tests for poisons such as cyanide. This was a young woman with no history of cardiac problems as far as I am aware?:twocents::twocents:

His downfall was that he was not an MD. He was, however, narcisscistic and thought he knew what they would do in an emergency situation. I am so glad to hear that he was arrested!

Hospitals don't routinely test for cyanide poisoning. He likely didn't expect she'd be put on life support and reperfusion machine. Death from cyanide is usually very fast.

 

[jjenny]

I think I'm only beginning to realize that an autopsy would not reveal cyanide poisoning? It required measuring the gases in the blood? ??? (And no, I am not planning to poison anyone)

To determine cyanide poisoning, special blood tests have to be ordered.

 

[bourne]

I actually disagree. She was on life support and a reperfusion machine. When someone is in this state in the hospital an arterial blood gas is done (many of them actually) to check the acid base balance and the above article indicated that her blood was bright red and she was acidotic. Those two things combined alone would tip them off to run tests for poisons such as cyanide. This was a young woman with no history of cardiac problems as far as I am aware?:twocents::twocents:

His downfall was that he was not an MD. He was, however, narcisscistic and thought he knew what they would do in an emergency situation. I am so glad to hear that he was arrested!

ITA. When a seemingly "healthy" patient comes into the hospital with what appears to be an MI, reperfusion therapy is immediately initiated. Acid-base imbalance would be detected along with the bright red blood, and cyanide poisoning would be suspected. I believe it's the husband's narcissistic HUBRIS that made him believe he could get away with poisoning her.

 

[jjenny]

ITA. When a seemingly "healthy" patient comes into the hospital with what appears to be an MI, reperfusion therapy is immediately initiated. Acid-base imbalance would be detected along with the bright red blood, and cyanide poisoning would be suspected. I believe it's the husband's narcissistic HUBRIS that made him believe he could get away with poisoning her.

Like I already said, people usually drop dead very quickly from cyanide poisoning.
I am not sure why she didn't die on the spot. Maybe her dose wasn't high enough, since it was apparently mixed into creatine. There are a couple of guys who recently killed themselves with cyanide after being convicted in court. They died quickly. No reperfusion therapy for them. He might have expected that she would die within minutes, or on her way to the hospital.

This guy died at the scene.

"Marin had just been convicted of burning down his mansion in 2009 when he went into convulsions at the defendant's table. He was declared dead at the scene."

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...t-committed-suicide-in-arizona-courtroom?lite

This guy died on the way to the hospital.
"White said Parsons stopped breathing and on the way to the hospital, went into cardiac arrest and died."
http://fox4kc.com/2013/07/01/man-poisons-self-dies-moments-after-verdict/

 

[bourne]

Like I already said, people usually drop dead very quickly from cyanide poisoning.
I am not sure why she didn't die on the spot. Maybe her dose wasn't high enough, since it was apparently mixed into creatine. There are a couple of guys who recently killed themselves with cyanide after being convicted in court. They died quickly. No reperfusion therapy for them. He might have expected that she would die within minutes, or on her way to the hospital.

This guy died at the scene.

"Marin had just been convicted of burning down his mansion in 2009 when he went into convulsions at the defendant's table. He was declared dead at the scene."

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...t-committed-suicide-in-arizona-courtroom?lite

This guy died on the way to the hospital.
"White said Parsons stopped breathing and on the way to the hospital, went into cardiac arrest and died."
http://fox4kc.com/2013/07/01/man-poisons-self-dies-moments-after-verdict/

No need to explain. I wasn't disputing anything. Just stating my informed opinion on the medical emergency and my assessment of how the hubby was acting.

 

[colette]

This never looks good... instead of doing CPR (as 911 instructs), he calls a friend.

After calling 911, he called a friend and told him what was occurring, according to the affidavit to support the warrant.


Also, Robert Ferrante told police he put his wife on a creatine regimen to help her get pregnant and even mixed the awful-tasting substance in sugary drinks for her or with cinnamon and sugar for her morning toast....

Read more: http://triblive.com/news/allegheny/4442667-74/ferrante-police-klein#ixzz2aVJULsa4
Follow us: @triblive on Twitter | triblive on Facebook

 

[southernnana]

:steamed:

He did what after calling 911?? ..... He was stalling for the cyanide to kick in.

This never looks good... instead of doing CPR (as 911 instructs), he calls a friend.

After calling 911, he called a friend and told him what was occurring, according to the affidavit to support the warrant.

Also, Robert Ferrante told police he put his wife on a creatine regimen to help her get pregnant and even mixed the awful-tasting substance in sugary drinks for her or with cinnamon and sugar for her morning toast....

Read more: http://triblive.com/news/allegheny/4442667-74/ferrante-police-klein#ixzz2aVJULsa4
Follow us: @triblive on Twitter | triblive on Facebook

Great article and photos.