GUILTY PA - Husband charged in cyanide poisoning death of Dr. Autumn Klein

[ScarlettScarpetta]

We have a lot of information right there on the thread. Police have his text messages to her telling her to take creatine. Creatine came from his lab, a witness from the lab saw him mixing it with water and drinking it.
Police also interviewed her "male friend" with whom she stayed overnight when going on conferences.
So it's not a rumor, that is information coming from a witness.

This case is on my radar but not my main concern at this point. It's all I can manage to figure out all the players in the josh young case. .

Thanks for the information. It never ceases to amaze me that people can't seem to just get divorced and move on.

 

[jjenny]

I actually disagree. She was on life support and a reperfusion machine. When someone is in this state in the hospital an arterial blood gas is done (many of them actually) to check the acid base balance and the above article indicated that her blood was bright red and she was acidotic. Those two things combined alone would tip them off to run tests for poisons such as cyanide. This was a young woman with no history of cardiac problems as far as I am aware?:twocents::twocents:

His downfall was that he was not an MD. He was, however, narcisscistic and thought he knew what they would do in an emergency situation. I am so glad to hear that he was arrested!

This article has a very good summary as to why the cyanide poisoning might have gone undiscovered. And why someone using cyanide as a poison might have expected it not discovered.
1) He wanted his wife taken to a hospital that doesn't have the technology it took to keep her alive for a while. Paramedics ignored his request and took her to a hospital that had this technology.
2) Most people die very quickly from acute cyanide poisoning. She lasted long enough on life support for them to run these tests.
3) Cyanide test is not a standard test during an autopsy.

"If the patient had died in the emergency department, it is likely the diagnosis of cyanide poisoning would not have been made," said Angela Gardner, a former president of the American College of Emergency Physicians who works at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center in Dallas. "It is not on the average ER physician's first line of thought when a patient comes in."

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories...-of-a-cyanide-diagnosis-697576/#ixzz2aoZFnBF4

 

[jjenny]

If you felt your marriage was not stable why would any man at the age of 64 want another child?

Considering he is accused of killing his wife before she was pregnant, who says he actually wanted another child? He was trying to convince her to take creatine, claiming it increases fertility, but obviously she didn't make it long enough to actually get pregnant. He might have been pretending wanting another child so he could get her to take the creatine.

 

[LambChop]

Considering he is accused of killing his wife before she was pregnant, who says he actually wanted another child? He was trying to convince her to take creatine, claiming it increases fertility, but obviously she didn't make it long enough to actually get pregnant. He might have been pretending wanting another child so he could get her to take the creatine.

Yes, to me at 64 you are thinking about when you plan to retire no matter who you are. At 65 you have to take Medicare even if you don't plan on retiring until you are 70. Another child to raise and send off to college is a big step at 64. jmo

 

[jjenny]

Yes, to me at 64 you are thinking about when you plan to retire no matter who you are. At 65 you have to take Medicare even if you don't plan on retiring until you are 70. Another child to raise and send off to college is a big step at 64. jmo

As I already pointed out, this "big step" never happened. He is accused of killing his wife before she actually got pregnant, so presumably he didn't really want another child.

 

[time]

If you felt your marriage was not stable why would any man at the age of 64 want another child?

I can't even figure out why she wanted another child since she apparently told people he wasn't helping her with their 6 yr old and had a busy career. Told the guy she wanted a divorce. I really don't know why anyone who is 64 would want another child period, let alone if your marriage is unstable. Like JJ, I just can't see a pregnancy as his idea. But who knows. All in all, it seems some some really odd dynamics going on.

 

[time]

“I have an aura. According to my calendar I ovulate tomorrow.”

Can someone explain what an aura is in relation to ovulation?

 

[LambChop]

“I have an aura. According to my calendar I ovulate tomorrow.”

Can someone explain what an aura is in relation to ovulation?

Migraine Triggers:

"More than half of migraine sufferers who also experience aura symptoms report having at least one trigger for their migraines. Possible triggers include the following: changing hormone levels (especially among women)...."

http://www.healthline.com/migraine/...LSN5-yH37gCFWQV7AodZTgAuQ#3/migraine-triggers

 

[time]

Migraine Triggers:

"More than half of migraine sufferers who also experience aura symptoms report having at least one trigger for their migraines. Possible triggers include the following: changing hormone levels (especially among women)...."

http://www.healthline.com/migraine/...LSN5-yH37gCFWQV7AodZTgAuQ#3/migraine-triggers

Thanks LC, migraine was the first thing I thought of, but just assumed it must be something else.

 

[colette]

According to jjenny's link, Ferrante told 911 he wanted his wife to go to the hospital further away because her parents were there. Her parents weren't there and that lie will look really bad in a trial.

(Considering the closer hospital was where they both worked and had the equipment to help her.)

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories...-of-a-cyanide-diagnosis-697576/#ixzz2aoZFnBF4

 

[bourne]

If you felt your marriage was not stable why would any man at the age of 64 want another child?

I think for some people -- mostly women and a few men, from what I've observed -- they become so desperate for their marriage/partnership to work out that they'd do anything, including having a child to "keep the partnership". They believe falsely that a child would somehow bond them together more. This tends to happen with people who are obsessively controlling and possessive of their partners.

 

[Aristotle]

Hmm.. He said she had a bad head ache. I thought that was an excuse to lead into a stroke.

I hope the lawyers read these posts.

Here's a puzzle. What if you are a lab worker who ordered the cyanide. Next thing you know, a day or two later, the healthy wife of your boss has a stroke and dies. Aren't you suspicious? And if so, where do you go?

 

[jjenny]

Hmm.. He said she had a bad head ache. I thought that was an excuse to lead into a stroke.

I hope the lawyers read these posts.

Here's a puzzle. What if you are a lab worker who ordered the cyanide. Next thing you know, a day or two later, the healthy wife of your boss has a stroke and dies. Aren't you suspicious? And if so, where do you go?

Why would you be suspicious if you think she had a stroke?

 

[colette]

New article about how Ferrante exploited loopholes to buy cyanide.

An unnamed lab colleague told detectives that the P-Card "is a last choice for purchases and this was the first time Ferrante had used it," according to the affidavit.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories...oopholes-to-buy-cyanide-698041/#ixzz2b14NGaYL

Another article about latest cyanide deaths and why cyanide gets used.

That speed is what makes cyanide attractive to murderers. “It works so fast that if you see someone die of cyanide poisoning, you’ve probably seen them take it,” Benjamin told the Herald yesterday.

- See more at: http://bostonherald.com/news_opinio...acted_to_cyanide_s_speed#sthash.Emyqp5Zl.dpuf

 

[jjenny]

Even people's homes have dangerous chemicals you can kill or injure someone with.
If you so desire.

 

[jjenny]

I think for some people -- mostly women and a few men, from what I've observed -- they become so desperate for their marriage/partnership to work out that they'd do anything, including having a child to "keep the partnership". They believe falsely that a child would somehow bond them together more. This tends to happen with people who are obsessively controlling and possessive of their partners.

I don't think he actually wanted a child. Considering he is accused of killing his wife before she even became pregnant. He, IMO, was pretending so he can convince her to take creatine (with a little something extra mixed in, of course).

 

[bourne]

I don't think he actually wanted a child. Considering he is accused of killing his wife before she even became pregnant. He, IMO, was pretending so he can convince her to take creatine (with a little something extra mixed in, of course).

Unless we can read his mind or we're privvy to his most private thoughts such as those in a personal journal/log AND the journal actually contains genuine his feelings/thoughts, I don't believe any one of us can assert with certainty whether this man seriously wanted a second child with his wife, Dr. Klein.

But then, I also find it hard to believe that Dr. Klein would want to have a second biological child with this man, given that she seemed to be preparing herself to leave him or so I gathered from her messages to friends about how controlling and unsupportive he was towards her and their daughter.

Perhaps both were playing mental games with each other, although that's also hard to believe because the wife was said to have been going through fertility clinics...unless we're to believe she was considering getting pregnant with another man such as the other doctor whom she'd stay with for out-of-town conferences? IDK

Their whole relationship seems tenuous, at best. Nonetheless, I don't doubt that if the husband wanted to do away with his wife that he'd go to the absurd lengths of securing poison from his own lab because he seemed like the narcissistic type who believed he could get away with her murder.

 

[jjenny]

Unless we can read his mind or we're privvy to his most private thoughts such as those in a personal journal/log AND the journal actually contains genuine his feelings/thoughts, I don't believe any one of us can assert with certainty whether this man seriously wanted a second child with his wife, Dr. Klein.

But then, I also find it hard to believe that Dr. Klein would want to have a second biological child with this man, given that she seemed to be preparing herself to leave him or so I gathered from her messages to friends about how controlling and unsupportive he was towards her and their daughter.

Perhaps both were playing mental games with each other, although that's also hard to believe because the wife was said to have been going through fertility clinics...unless we're to believe she was considering getting pregnant with another man such as the other doctor whom she'd stay with for out-of-town conferences? IDK

Their whole relationship seems tenuous, at best. Nonetheless, I don't doubt that if the husband wanted to do away with his wife that he'd go to the absurd lengths of securing poison from his own lab because he seemed like the narcissistic type who believed he could get away with her murder.

Since he alleged to have killed her before she could even become pregnant, I don't need to read his mind to figure out he didn't really want to have another child with her. How was he possibly going to get this child with her being dead?

 

[whoanellie]

Many years ago a woman in Seattle poisoned her husband with cyanide. Poisoning was not suspected and his death was ruled due to natural causes. He was buried and the woman received his life insurance. She had gotten away with murder but she was greedy. The life insurance policy had a double indemnity clause that would pay out in the case of homicide. So she laced Tylenol with cyanide and placed the tainted Tylenol back in drug stores. One or more people died as a result of taking the Tylenol. IIRC some people when they die from cyanide poisoning have a recognizable almond smell. One of the victims had that telltale smell and the poisoned Tylenol story made the news. The woman who had killed her husband then went to the police saying that her husband had taken Tylenol just before he died. She wanted the authorities to rule that her husband had been poisoned. The husbands body was exhumed and tested for cyanide. She also had a bottle of poisoned Tylenol bought from one of the same drug stores. Eventually the police put 2 and 2 together and she was convicted.

There were a couple of interesting twists to the case. First, the woman's daughter was a key witness against her even though the victim was not her father. Second, there was a problem with one of the jurors during the deliberations. She would not vote to convict no matter what the evidence. Apparently she simply would not vote to convict another woman. Turns out the juror was planning on writing a book and had been in contact with a reporter. She was removed from the jury. IIRC the final jury had only eleven members.

Bottom line it is possible to get away with murder by cyanide poisoning.

 

[jjenny]

Of course it is possible to get away with cyanide poisoning. Urooj Khan was recently killed by cyanide poisoning after winning a million dollars. They didn't do an autopsy or any tests and he was buried. His relative became suspicious and notified police. Only then they did a blood test that revealed he was poisoned with cyanide. And still no arrests to this day even though they now know he was poisoned.
So clearly whoever poisoned him is getting away with it.