Where and when?

[2 percent]

I'm sure the veterans here have at one time or another said where they think JB was killed and when but I kind of wanted to see all of those theories under one thread.

When do you think she was killed? Why do you think that?

Where do you think she was killed? Why do you think that?

I think she was killed after 11pm but before 1am. There's no specific reason for my theory except opinion. It had been a long day and I'm sure everyone went to bed soon after getting home that night. The molester would have to wait for everyone to be asleep for the maximum privacy, which makes me think midnight-ish. I don't know what to think of the neighbor who heard the scream. It doesn't fit any theory of her death that I have.

I think she was killed in or near her room. Mostly because the bigger amount of proof suggests that as the center of activity. Again, not a firm opinion...just an opinion.

 

[Venom]

When? I think sometime around midnight and 1 a.m. It fits with when the scream was heard, and the state of the rigor mortis.

Where? I'm not too sure of. I was thinking down in the basement, but there is the blood on her bed and the garland from the stairway that was mixed in her hair. Lately, I've been wondering if it was started in her bedroom and she got the garland in her hair from being carried down the stairs.

 

[DeeDee249]

Time of death as I see it is around midnight. Still can't lock in a location. As far as the green garland bits in her hair- it is true that garland was on the staircase railing going down to the basement. Certainly, had she been carried down those spiral stairs, she could have gotten it in her hair. But the basement, particularly the wine cellar, was used to store artificial Christmas trees. There is also a photo of the wine cellar door showing a Christmas decoration in the form of spray hanging on the wall. This is also made of fake greens. The presence of green fake needles in her hair does not necessarily mean she was carried down the stairs. She could have picked it up as she lay on the carpeted area where the paint tote was locates (where the alleged creatinine was found and where the splinters from the broken paintbrush were also present). Those fake green needles had to be all over the basement floor- the trees had been dragged out of the winecellar and taken upstairs.

 

[Venom]

Time of death as I see it is around midnight. Still can't lock in a location. As far as the green garland bits in her hair- it is true that garland was on the staircase railing going down to the basement. Certainly, had she been carried down those spiral stairs, she could have gotten it in her hair. But the basement, particularly the wine cellar, was used to store artificial Christmas trees. There is also a photo of the wine cellar door showing a Christmas decoration in the form of spray hanging on the wall. This is also made of fake greens. The presence of green fake needles in her hair does not necessarily mean she was carried down the stairs. She could have picked it up as she lay on the carpeted area where the paint tote was locates (where the alleged creatinine was found and where the splinters from the broken paintbrush were also present). Those fake green needles had to be all over the basement floor- the trees had been dragged out of the winecellar and taken upstairs.

Thanks for pointing that out. You're right, she could have picked them up down there. Back to the drawing board..

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

Time of death as I see it is around midnight. Still can't lock in a location. As far as the green garland bits in her hair- it is true that garland was on the staircase railing going down to the basement. Certainly, had she been carried down those spiral stairs, she could have gotten it in her hair. But the basement, particularly the wine cellar, was used to store artificial Christmas trees. There is also a photo of the wine cellar door showing a Christmas decoration in the form of spray hanging on the wall. This is also made of fake greens. The presence of green fake needles in her hair does not necessarily mean she was carried down the stairs. She could have picked it up as she lay on the carpeted area where the paint tote was locates (where the alleged creatinine was found and where the splinters from the broken paintbrush were also present). Those fake green needles had to be all over the basement floor- the trees had been dragged out of the winecellar and taken upstairs.

And let's not forget that JBR was placed under the X-mas tree after she was found in the WC and carried up to the Living Room. Perhaps some tree trimmings were picked up from there too?

 

[Chelly]

I think JB was dealt the head-bash a short while after midnight and was strangled to her death not long after the head-bash because.........

1) The partially digested pineapple evidence.
2) This theory gives the rest of the family (except for the head-basher) enough time to settle down in their beds for the night. I am taking into account that PR usually takes JB to potty around midnight.

I think JB received the head-bash in her bedroom, was carried to the basement (not necessarily by the head-basher) and was strangled near PR's paint tray outside the WC.

Why? K.I.S.S.....Everyone was exhausted after a long Christmas day. No one had a plan to commit murder or mayhem that night. Everyone knew they had an early wakeup call the next morning and a long day ahead. However, someone (no matter how exhausted) made his way into JB's bed and things got out of hand.

And......I know there are a ton of holes in my theory and I am forever going back to the drawing board. :banghead:

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I wonder if sleep cycles are relevant to when JonBenet died? If the family got home at 9:00, and JonBenet was in bed at 9:30, and fell asleep around 10 PM...Well, one sleep cycle lasts 90 minutes. So at 11:30, 1 AM, 2:30 would be times when JonBenet was entering Stage 1, the lightest stage, making her (I believe) more likely to wake up around these times. She wakes up, and goes downstairs, where the altercation occurs, is what I think could have happen.

 

[FrayedKnot]

Her own family has her date of death listed as 12.25.96. On her tombstone. They oughtta know. JMO.

 

[UKGuy]

I think JB was dealt the head-bash a short while after midnight and was strangled to her death not long after the head-bash because.........

1) The partially digested pineapple evidence.
2) This theory gives the rest of the family (except for the head-basher) enough time to settle down in their beds for the night. I am taking into account that PR usually takes JB to potty around midnight.

I think JB received the head-bash in her bedroom, was carried to the basement (not necessarily by the head-basher) and was strangled near PR's paint tray outside the WC.

Why? K.I.S.S.....Everyone was exhausted after a long Christmas day. No one had a plan to commit murder or mayhem that night. Everyone knew they had an early wakeup call the next morning and a long day ahead. However, someone (no matter how exhausted) made his way into JB's bed and things got out of hand.

And......I know there are a ton of holes in my theory and I am forever going back to the drawing board. :banghead:

Chelly,
It looks that way. I reckon the bedroom scenario can be firmed up by considering the hair-ties, i.e. were they placed on JonBenet as she was put into bed, or are they postmortem staging?

One question I turn over regularly is: would Patsy prepare JonBenet for bed, put her hair up, then tell her to come downstairs for a pineapple snack, knowing she wets the bed and has to rise early the following morning?

Also if Patsy did prepare the pineapple snack, why did she not clear away all the evidence, including wiping and washing glasses, bowls and spoons?

It looks to me as if someone suggested a pineapple snack to JonBenet after she was in bed, and that they might take a look at some Christmas presents, e.g. Barbie Doll?

.

 

[madeleine]

IIRC her feet were dirty so I guess this means she was alive/standing in the basement at some point?
one other thing...if she went to the kitchen or the basement by herself wouldn't she have put some socks on?

she was either killed in her bedroom or the basement IMO
TOD probably close after they arrived home

 

[BOESP]

<snip>

Also if Patsy did prepare the pineapple snack, why did she not clear away all the evidence, including wiping and washing glasses, bowls and spoons?

It looks to me as if someone suggested a pineapple snack to JonBenet after she was in bed, and that they might take a look at some Christmas presents, e.g. Barbie Doll?

.

Patsy didn't clean up after herself or make the kids clean up after themselves according to her statements, Nedra Paugh's comments, and those of Linda Hoffman-Pugh and the housekeeper before Ms. Pugh. Iirc, Patsy stated that Ms. Pugh was supposed to come on December 27th and clean the Ramsey house. My opinion is the uncleared table and mess was just "same old/same old" and, out of habit, it didn't occur to her to clean it up because it wasn't directly related to JonBenet dying.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

I'm sure the veterans here have at one time or another said where they think JB was killed and when but I kind of wanted to see all of those theories under one thread.

When do you think she was killed? Why do you think that?

Where do you think she was killed? Why do you think that?

I think she was killed after 11pm but before 1am. There's no specific reason for my theory except opinion. It had been a long day and I'm sure everyone went to bed soon after getting home that night. The molester would have to wait for everyone to be asleep for the maximum privacy, which makes me think midnight-ish. I don't know what to think of the neighbor who heard the scream. It doesn't fit any theory of her death that I have.

I think she was killed in or near her room. Mostly because the bigger amount of proof suggests that as the center of activity. Again, not a firm opinion...just an opinion.

I think she was killed down near where she was found. Maybe not right there but down there somewhere. I have often wondered if the perp was trying to get her out of the house, felt like they could not do it at the last minute and left her behind and killed her there.

I do believe that the timing is hard, But I just have a sense of 1-4 am. Somewhere in there.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

Her own family has her date of death listed as 12.25.96. On her tombstone. They oughtta know. JMO.

A lot of people put the time of death at either when the body was found or when they went missing. I don't think it means much.

 

[madeleine]

I was thinking about that open pack of diapers found outside JB's room...ST mentions it somewhere in his book....I don't have the book around now so dunno if I recall correctly

could it be that she was wiped off with a diaper and not a cloth?

 

[UKGuy]

Patsy didn't clean up after herself or make the kids clean up after themselves according to her statements, Nedra Paugh's comments, and those of Linda Hoffman-Pugh and the housekeeper before Ms. Pugh. Iirc, Patsy stated that Ms. Pugh was supposed to come on December 27th and clean the Ramsey house. My opinion is the uncleared table and mess was just "same old/same old" and, out of habit, it didn't occur to her to clean it up because it wasn't directly related to JonBenet dying.

BOESP,
Maybe. Yet the pineapple snack contradicts the R's version of events. So is it possible Patsy knew nothing about the pineapple snack?


.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

BOESP,
Maybe. Yet the pineapple snack contradicts the R's version of events. So is it possible Patsy knew nothing about the pineapple snack?


.

How does it contradict them? They said they did not give her pineapple. That they did not know when she ate it. That does not mean she did not eat it at some point and they were not aware of it.

 

[Justice101]

I probably should not post this here, but my state lab hand writing expert was an outside review group looking at the ransom note and he told me he was 905 certain that it was the hand writing of the wife.

 

[2 percent]

When? I think sometime around midnight and 1 a.m. It fits with when the scream was heard, and the state of the rigor mortis

So if I'm remembering right there were two neighbors curious about the Ramsey home that night. A woman heard a scream and a man saw lights. Neither called the police.

If JB screamed, doesn't that mean the only theory of her death must include, at the least, the entire family? If a person across the street, most likely with her windows and drapes closed, heard a scream loud enough to wake her up the family couldn't have failed to hear it too. Including Burke.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

So if I'm remembering right there were two neighbors curious about the Ramsey home that night. A woman heard a scream and a man saw lights. Neither called the police.

If JB screamed, doesn't that mean the only theory of her death must include, at the least, the entire family? If a person across the street, most likely with her windows and drapes closed, heard a scream loud enough to wake her up the family couldn't have failed to hear it too. Including Burke.

I don't think so. Even with hearing a scream that does not mean that was when she was killed sadly. With the size of the house and the way it is built, One could scream say down near the basement window that was broken and maybe they could hear it out but not in.

 

[BOESP]

BOESP,
Maybe. Yet the pineapple snack contradicts the R's version of events. So is it possible Patsy knew nothing about the pineapple snack?


.

Well, anything is possible UKGuy but I don't see a thought process that would make Patsy necessarily think she needed to clean up something that didn't (in her mind) point to events surrounding JonBenet's death. Imo, she had more important things to consider.