Kyron's case on Dr. Phil 9/17 *includes tape of the show*

[sarah7855]

From what we've heard, Terri would often tell one story to one person & a different story to another person. Without knowing the context of the email Desiree is referring to, it's hard to say what Terri was trying to portray. Like - she might have been claiming that Kaine was angry that morning (like she was pointing the finger at him, and away from herself) - or she was playing the victim (my husband is so awful), or maybe she was flirting with some guy (our marriage is over, we fight all the time), or maybe she was trying to get sympathy from her parents, etc etc. And maybe they did fight, as in argue or get snippy with each other, and Kaine was so used to low level conflict it didn't even register. It could be anything. And to Desiree, so desperate to put the pieces together into a story of what happened to Kyron, maybe she's giving the mention of an argument a lot more weight than Kaine did. ?? Just a thought.

About Terri hating Kyron - I mean have you ever read those 'step-parent' forums? Oh my gosh, when someone mentioned those here before and I read some of the forum posts it was sickening. There is SO much resentment out there for step children. So much. I couldn't believe it, would never have imagined the level of resentment and I'd even go so far as to say "hatred" some of the posters had for their step children. And there were so MANY of them posting that stuff! It was an eye opener. I didn't know people like that existed, nevermind were so common. Ugh.

Just have to say, I really enjoy your posts, they are very well stated! Thanks for all your contributions in regards to Kaine and TH's possible argument, I think your idea makes a lot of sense. Low level conflict that didn't even register to him while on her end, it was a possible way to draw attention away from herself.

I've never read any of the "stepparent" forums, but I cannot imagine a person having such hatred for a child period. A person that would is a monster, IMO.

 

[x_files]

BBM. I think all of us share that doubt.

What kind of parent allows the child to live in such a toxic environment? If Terri was a drunk who hated the child and she and Kaine were always arguing, Kaine had a responsibility to protect the children and remove them from such an environment. Instead, he waited until LE told him there was a "hit" on him.

JMO

Stubborn? Denial? Refusing to allow Desiree to have custody? Pride?
It's a shame Desiree seems like a wonderful, loving parent.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

BBM. I think all of us share that doubt.

What kind of parent allows the child to live in such a toxic environment? If Terri was a drunk who hated the child and she and Kaine were always arguing, Kaine had a responsibility to protect the children and remove them from such an environment. Instead, he waited until LE told him there was a "hit" on him.

JMO

Sometimes one spouse is not aware of how toxic things are at home. They just aren't. Kaine also said that some times Kyron would cry that he did not want to go back to his moms. So he must have wanted to be with his dad...

 

[human]

BBM. I think all of us share that doubt.

What kind of parent allows the child to live in such a toxic environment? If Terri was a drunk who hated the child and she and Kaine were always arguing, Kaine had a responsibility to protect the children and remove them from such an environment. Instead, he waited until LE told him there was a "hit" on him.

JMO

It is called denial. That is why people who are involved with alcoholics are advised to attend support groups.

Alcoholism is a bizarre illness that affects everyone that comes in contact with the alcoholic.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

It is called denial. That is why people who are involved with alcoholics are advised to attend support groups.

Alcoholism is a bizarre illness that affects everyone that comes in contact with the alcoholic.

Couldn't agree more!

Unless people have lived it, they just don't quite understand how it is.

 

[MyBelle]

It is called denial. That is why people who are involved with alcoholics are advised to attend support groups.

Alcoholism is a bizarre illness that affects everyone that comes in contact with the alcoholic.

Doesn't matter what it is called it isn't an excuse.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Stubborn? Denial? Refusing to allow Desiree to have custody? Pride?
It's a shame Desiree seems like a wonderful, loving parent.

BBM. The need for total control is the impression I got from DY's comments in the interview.

JMO

 

[ami]

BBM. I think all of us share that doubt.

What kind of parent allows the child to live in such a toxic environment? If Terri was a drunk who hated the child and she and Kaine were always arguing, Kaine had a responsibility to protect the children and remove them from such an environment. Instead, he waited until LE told him there was a "hit" on him.

JMO

Kaine said he didn't know Terri hated Kyron - that came out in the emails after he disappeared. And if all parents who argued or struggled with a drinking problem gave their kids away, we'd be awash with homeless children. And who is to say that DY and TY didn't argue and/or drink? Clearly at some point DY thought Kaine's custody was the best place for Kyron.

What Kaine should have done is tossed Terri out on her ear. It's clear that Kaine is not the type to abandon his child when problems arise. I find it super disturbing that Terri seems to shed her children during times of trouble.

I also think it's normal for kids Kyron's age to "nest" in whichever home their used to at the moment, and be upset when uprooted from dad's to mom's, and mom's to dad's. It's not always a signal of a child in danger of kidnap or murder, but is often the sad confusion and mixed emotions of a child going between two homes and two sets of parents and two sets of expectations.

 

[MyBelle]

Kaine said he didn't know Terri hated Kyron - that came out in the emails after he disappeared. And if all parents who argued or struggled with a drinking problem gave their kids away, we'd be awash with homeless children. And who is to say that DY and TY didn't argue and/or drink? Clearly at some point DY thought Kaine's custody was the best place for Kyron.

What Kaine should have done is tossed Terri out on her ear. It's clear that Kaine is not the type to abandon his child when problems arise. I find it super disturbing that Terri seems to shed her children during times of trouble.

I also think it's normal for kids Kyron's age to "nest" in whichever home their used to at the moment, and be upset when uprooted from dad's to mom's, and mom's to dad's. It's not always a signal of a child in danger of kidnap or murder, but is often the sad confusion and mixed emotions of a child going between two homes and two sets of parents and two sets of expectations.

I'm not about to speculate whether or not DY has a drinking problem. She truly is a victim and has my deepest sympathy and compassion.

I also don't share your opinion that it is "normal" for young children to be content in homes where they know they are not wanted. I don't believe that Kaine was not aware of his wife's feelings about his son and more importantly, DY made it clear in the interview that she doesn't seem to believe it, either.

JMO

 

[human]

Let's say you are married.

Let's say that your hubby has a child from a previous relationship.

Let's say your hubby loves his child.

Let's say your hubby has a good income and you have none.

Let's say that it seems like the two of you are not getting along.

Let's say you tell hubby that you hate his child?

Let's place bets. Who stays? You or the child?

I say hubby needs you for exactly nothing, especially if he has another babe in the wings. Kiss yourself goodbye and enjoy your new life living with your parents

 

[x_files]

Let's say you are married.

Let's say that your hubby has a child from a previous relationship.

Let's say your hubby loves his child.

Let's say your hubby has a good income and you have none.

Let's say that it seems like the two of you are not getting along.

Let's say you tell hubby that you hate his child?

Let's place bets. Who stays? You or the child?

I say hubby needs you for exactly nothing, especially if he has another babe in the wings. Kiss yourself goodbye and enjoy your new life living with your parents

I could see how she must have felt used to babysit his child, but that's no excuse to "lose", kill, or make a child disappear. Great point!
Looks like DY is right Kaine's infidelity caused serious resentments in both his marriages.

 

[onthecounter]

From what we've heard, Terri would often tell one story to one person & a different story to another person. Without knowing the context of the email Desiree is referring to, it's hard to say what Terri was trying to portray. Like - she might have been claiming that Kaine was angry that morning (like she was pointing the finger at him, and away from herself) - or she was playing the victim (my husband is so awful), or maybe she was flirting with some guy (our marriage is over, we fight all the time), or maybe she was trying to get sympathy from her parents, etc etc. And maybe they did fight, as in argue or get snippy with each other, and Kaine was so used to low level conflict it didn't even register. It could be anything. And to Desiree, so desperate to put the pieces together into a story of what happened to Kyron, maybe she's giving the mention of an argument a lot more weight than Kaine did. ?? Just a thought.

About Terri hating Kyron - I mean have you ever read those 'step-parent' forums? Oh my gosh, when someone mentioned those here before and I read some of the forum posts it was sickening. There is SO much resentment out there for step children. So much. I couldn't believe it, would never have imagined the level of resentment and I'd even go so far as to say "hatred" some of the posters had for their step children. And there were so MANY of them posting that stuff! It was an eye opener. I didn't know people like that existed, nevermind were so common. Ugh.

sorry O/T but I never knew these forums existed either until your post and I feel disgusted and shocked just like you did when you found out, after browsing some of them. I feel sickened.

 

[ami]

I'm not about to speculate whether or not DY has a drinking problem. She truly is a victim and has my deepest sympathy and compassion.

I also don't share your opinion that it is "normal" for young children to be content in homes where they know they are not wanted. I don't believe that Kaine was not aware of his wife's feelings about his son and more importantly, DY made it clear in the interview that she doesn't seem to believe it, either.

JMO

No one asked you to speculate about DY. And since I never said children are content in homes where they're not wanted (nor has anyone else), I'm not sure why you quoted my post in your reply. So let's move past the straw man.

As far as Kaine not knowing that Terri hated Kyron enough to kill him? We're all entitled to our opinions. I personally don't think Kaine knew Kyron's life was in danger. And it's completely understandable to me that DY would feel Kaine should have done more. Any parent would feel that way after the fact. Just as DY said she should have fought harder for Kyron to come live with her. In retrospect, considering what happened, it's natural to look back on decisions with a more judgmental eye.

 

[ami]

Let's say you are married.

Let's say that your hubby has a child from a previous relationship.

Let's say your hubby loves his child.

Let's say your hubby has a good income and you have none.

Let's say that it seems like the two of you are not getting along.

Let's say you tell hubby that you hate his child?

Let's place bets. Who stays? You or the child?

I say hubby needs you for exactly nothing, especially if he has another babe in the wings. Kiss yourself goodbye and enjoy your new life living with your parents

Good summary! And let's say a wife was feeling all those things and knew it was essentially going to come down to the child or her. What would her choices be? Call the bio mom and ask her to take the child away, and when the child's father objects to having his son taken away, what choices are left?

 

[human]

I could see how she must have felt used to babysit his child, but that's no excuse to "lose", kill, or make a child disappear. Great point!
Looks like DY is right Kaine's infidelity caused serious resentments in both his marriages.

Interesting concept.

He had the child when they were dating.

If she did not want the whole package, mother and wife, she should have looked elsewhere.

She was not babysitting. She was his other mother.

I don't agree with the infidelity. I have never met a man who was leaving his wife who did not have another woman in the wings.

It could be that TH's lying and drinking was not helpful for a good relationship,

 

[MyBelle]

No one asked you to speculate about DY. And since I never said children are content in homes where they're not wanted (nor has anyone else), I'm not sure why you quoted my post in your reply. So let's move past the straw man.

As far as Kaine not knowing that Terri hated Kyron enough to kill him? We're all entitled to our opinions. I personally don't think Kaine knew Kyron's life was in danger. And it's completely understandable to me that DY would feel Kaine should have done more. Any parent would feel that way after the fact. Just as DY said she should have fought harder for Kyron to come live with her. In retrospect, considering what happened, it's natural to look back on decisions with a more judgmental eye.

Excuse me but you are the one who speculated about DY and the reasons she consented for custody and I said I don't wish to engage in such speculation.

Originally Posted by ami

~snipped~
And who is to say that DY and TY didn't argue and/or drink? Clearly at some point DY thought Kaine's custody was the best place for Kyron.

 

[mmmagique]

Excuse me but you are the one who speculated about DY and the reasons she consented for custody and I said I don't wish to engage in such speculation.

Originally Posted by ami

~snipped~
And who is to say that DY and TY didn't argue and/or drink? Clearly at some point DY thought Kaine's custody was the best place for Kyron.

Perhaps, but we all decide which things we will consider, and which we will not.

 

[scandi]

respectfully snipped

I believe that most people whose child has disappeared would be willing to have their entire property searched every day and even dug up completely, if there was even the slightest chance the child was on the property. Even, really, if there seemed to be no chance. I believe I'd be out there digging myself and searching, searching until my child was found.

Is there a small chance that Kyron is buried on the property? Yes. Terri says she was driving around most of the day, but was she? I don't remember any really thorough searches, and I believe some areas of the property have not been searched at all.

I have not understood Kaine from the beginning. I don't think he's guilty of anything concerning Kyron's disappearance -- for one thing, he's got an alibi -- but he reacts oddly to things, to say the least.

My BOLD

I think this is the best possibility about Kaine I have read. {Bolded}

In answer to Kimberlyd, reading the posts here gave me cause to wonder if there had been a change in looking at Kaine for involvement. He was always respected as a victim IMO. I had wondered about him all along tho after reading posts about their relationship as a married couple. But I never thought he was involved only possibly knew more about TH than he let on, at least to the public.

 

[ami]

Excuse me but you are the one who speculated about DY and the reasons she consented for custody and I said I don't wish to engage in such speculation.

Originally Posted by ami

~snipped~
And who is to say that DY and TY didn't argue and/or drink? Clearly at some point DY thought Kaine's custody was the best place for Kyron.

I didn't speculate about grounds for custody, and it's only if you pull those sentences out of context that it would appear that way. The person I was responding to implied that a caring parent would give up their child if their spouse drank, and because that's obviously illogical, I responded with the point that if that were the case, we have no idea which of that child's family members would meet that particular requirement.

And in fact DY did at some point think that Kyron was better off with Kaine. Not my opinion - that's a fact. And we do know something about the "why" about that, and it's a reasonable "why". In my opinion, that fact is probably haunting DY. She had legitimate needs that took her from her son, and by the time she could properly care for him again he'd had a family including a baby sister built around him, and my guess is that as much as she wanted him, she didn't fight harder (as she herself put it) because he had this life built around him. Now she regrets that because in hindsight, she sees red flags in that life. To me, this is understandable from her side and from Kaine's side.

In any case, as much as some posters here say that Kaine should have ditched his son when TMH started to exhibit signs of unraveling, I understand why he didn't. It's not as simple, IMO, as Terri laying drunk on the couch sexting men she met at his 20th reunion while watching Toddlers in Tiaras, and Kaine deciding to give up custody of his only son to DY. Both DY and KH are victims, but it's silly to not try to understand and empathize with their very human motivations.

 

[x_files]

Interesting concept.

He had the child when they were dating.

If she did not want the whole package, mother and wife, she should have looked elsewhere.

She was not babysitting. She was his other mother.

I don't agree with the infidelity. I have never met a man who was leaving his wife who did not have another woman in the wings.

It could be that TH's lying and drinking was not helpful for a good relationship,

I agree. But, I was trying to see things from TH's perspective, she may have felt she wasn't the other mother or had any input as a step-mother but a babysitter for Kaine.
I can only speculate what she might have been thinking.