GUILTY Australia - Morgan Huxley, 31, stabbed to death, Neutral Bay, NSW, 8 Sept 2013 #1

[michael]

OK, so let's assume that LE know the offender's identity, or reasonably suspect a particular person. Obviously that alone is not enough to make an arrest. And under double jeopardy statutes, which I believe exist in most countries, they really only get one chance to get it right.

My knowledge of Australian law is limited to a little bit of TV, a little bit of news and a little bit of wikipedia.

So, "means, motive and opportunity" I understand is some kind of rule of thumb for the elements required to lay charges - not necessarily a mandate. I think from memory I've seen some US based crime docos which make mention that certain things must be present before a murder charge can be laid, such as a body, a murder weapon, and in the absence of any on of whatever these things are, they cannot lay a murder charge.

My question: Does Australia/NSW have any similar requirement for laying charges for murder? Or can murder charges be laid on little evidence provided the jury can be convinced of the suspect's guilt by the prosecution?

My guess is that the only thing delaying the arrest at the moment is LE needing to physically place the main suspect at the scene of the crime at the time of the crime. If that was with DNA evidence, I would have thought an arrest would be made by now (how long does DNA testing take?). Of course, if that DNA evidence was not blood, but other body fluids, then the timing of the suspects presence at the scene could possibly still be argued. Does LE need to obtain a warrant in order to test a suspects clothes for traces? And if so, on what grounds can they obtain that warrant? Must they already have something solid to justify it, or is suspicion enough?

And maybe not. Maybe all they need to do is piece together a plausible sequence of events and movements, and then provide evidence to back it up (CCTV, witness sightings, etc)?

Is there a legal buff here who can help fill in the gaps in my knowledge?

 

[colette]

I think it was a woman who he was sleeping with at the time of the murder. I think she was mad because he was paying attention to other women and less to her. I think she stabbed him during or after sex when he didn't expect it.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

What if there is so much DNA all over that bedroom that they are having a really hard time working who's is relevant .. what if they had multiple positive matches? If so, they'll need more than DNA to close the deal. Or even if they do, the lady in question can just say 'well I was there Thursday, who knows about about Friday / Saturday etc .. '

 

[Strangeworld]

:angel:
A glove? Maybe it was a Sannyasin - the Bhagwan mob had instructions to wear gloves at intimate moments didn't they? :angel:

:seeya: Hiya MM! Great seeing all the old names popping up!

 

[Strangeworld]

OK, so let's assume that LE know the offender's identity, or reasonably suspect a particular person. Obviously that alone is not enough to make an arrest. And under double jeopardy statutes, which I believe exist in most countries, they really only get one chance to get it right.

My knowledge of Australian law is limited to a little bit of TV, a little bit of news and a little bit of wikipedia.

So, "means, motive and opportunity" I understand is some kind of rule of thumb for the elements required to lay charges - not necessarily a mandate. I think from memory I've seen some US based crime docos which make mention that certain things must be present before a murder charge can be laid, such as a body, a murder weapon, and in the absence of any on of whatever these things are, they cannot lay a murder charge.

My question: Does Australia/NSW have any similar requirement for laying charges for murder? Or can murder charges be laid on little evidence provided the jury can be convinced of the suspect's guilt by the prosecution?

My guess is that the only thing delaying the arrest at the moment is LE needing to physically place the main suspect at the scene of the crime at the time of the crime. If that was with DNA evidence, I would have thought an arrest would be made by now (how long does DNA testing take?). Of course, if that DNA evidence was not blood, but other body fluids, then the timing of the suspects presence at the scene could possibly still be argued. Does LE need to obtain a warrant in order to test a suspects clothes for traces? And if so, on what grounds can they obtain that warrant? Must they already have something solid to justify it, or is suspicion enough?

And maybe not. Maybe all they need to do is piece together a plausible sequence of events and movements, and then provide evidence to back it up (CCTV, witness sightings, etc)?

Is there a legal buff here who can help fill in the gaps in my knowledge?

Double jeopardy does apply in Australia. This example below shows when it can be heartbreaking (I've actually had some professional dealings with Raymond Carroll - still gives me chills and he is not someone you want to talk to for very long - IMO manipulative and knows how to play the system).

http://www.qt.com.au/news/murder-that-stole-ipswichs-innocence-innocence/1819762/

http://www.qt.com.au/news/apn-mums-brave-fight-to-change-double-jeopardy/82376/

R v Carroll - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

:angel:
A glove? Maybe it was a Sannyasin - the Bhagwan mob had instructions to wear gloves at intimate moments didn't they? :angel:

:floorlaugh:

I had to look up this group of peeps to refresh my memory...

some even settled in Oregon, USA!

Lovely people...,poisoned food to affect outcome of election...:what:

 

[Mountain Misst]

What if there is so much DNA all over that bedroom that they are having a really hard time working who's is relevant .. what if they had multiple positive matches? If so, they'll need more than DNA to close the deal. Or even if they do, the lady in question can just say 'well I was there Thursday, who knows about about Friday / Saturday etc .. '

Hi SW, DW, our mates across the Pacific, et al... I'd like to eliminate the females one by one, but that would need a better sleuth than I.

Re the DNA - I hesitate, but the barefooted tomcat may not have been too keen on doing his laundry on a regular basis. Would be a CSI nightmare...

 

[fruity]

I think murder charges can be laid in nsw without a body. I'm trying to think of a case where it was done. There's Samantha Knight but he confessed. I'm too tired at the moment, I know I'll be able to think of names later.

 

[fruity]

Tbh I think police found a recently used condom in his room. Just reading between the lines.

 

[Strangeworld]

Hi SW, DW et al... I'd like to eliminate the females one by one, but that would need a better sleuth than I.

Re the DNA - I hesitate, but the barefooted tomcat may not have been too keen on doing his laundry on a regular basis. Would be a CSI nightmare...

BBM

:floorlaugh::floorlaugh:

 

[DrWatson]

Phew - I've just about caught up with this thread, which is growing ahead of where I was reading almost as fast as I was reading it...!

One thing springs to mind - if the attack was "frenzied" and in a rage, one would reasonably expect there to be some noise - yelling, shouting, screaming, etc, by the attacker. It takes a certain type of cold-blooded killer to inflict 30-odd stab wounds silently.

So was there a fair bit of noise? And if so, was that what woke up the flatmate? In which case, the perp sure didn't have much time to think about cleaning up, setting the scene, etc - just enough to hightail it out of there. Blood and all.

So I wonder if forensics found footprints either IN the blood at the scene, or outside?

And I wonder how many of the 14 girlfriends, PLUS all the other third parties it MAY have been, have watertight alibis?

Now I obviously have just skimmed through the thread to this point, so some of this may have been overlooked by me and discussed previously. But 30 stab wounds? With somebody else allegedly asleep in bed in the same apartment? And no apparent noise, either from the victim or the perpetrator?

All sounds somewhat fishy to me....

 

[Woodstock]

I think murder charges can be laid in nsw without a body. I'm trying to think of a case where it was done. There's Samantha Knight but he confessed. I'm too tired at the moment, I know I'll be able to think of names later.

Hi Fruity. A NSW case that springs to mind (with the help of a little Googling) is Paul Wilkinson who was convicted for the murder of Kylie Labouchardiere. Her body has not been found and he maintains that he is innocent.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

OK .. I guess it's safe to rule her JR out ..

Police said Mr Huxley’s flat mate Jean Redmond, who discovered him semi-conscious and called Triple-0, has an alibi and is not considered a person of interest.

Her boyfriend Ertan Ucar, whom Ms Redmond called when she discovered Mr Huxley lying in a pool of blood, is not to have been involved either, police said.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...-dna-murder-slue/story-fni0cszg-1226725564135

 

[LegallyBrunette]

OK, so let's assume that LE know the offender's identity, or reasonably suspect a particular person. Obviously that alone is not enough to make an arrest. And under double jeopardy statutes, which I believe exist in most countries, they really only get one chance to get it right.

My knowledge of Australian law is limited to a little bit of TV, a little bit of news and a little bit of wikipedia.

So, "means, motive and opportunity" I understand is some kind of rule of thumb for the elements required to lay charges - not necessarily a mandate. I think from memory I've seen some US based crime docos which make mention that certain things must be present before a murder charge can be laid, such as a body, a murder weapon, and in the absence of any on of whatever these things are, they cannot lay a murder charge.

My question: Does Australia/NSW have any similar requirement for laying charges for murder? Or can murder charges be laid on little evidence provided the jury can be convinced of the suspect's guilt by the prosecution?

My guess is that the only thing delaying the arrest at the moment is LE needing to physically place the main suspect at the scene of the crime at the time of the crime. If that was with DNA evidence, I would have thought an arrest would be made by now (how long does DNA testing take?). Of course, if that DNA evidence was not blood, but other body fluids, then the timing of the suspects presence at the scene could possibly still be argued. Does LE need to obtain a warrant in order to test a suspects clothes for traces? And if so, on what grounds can they obtain that warrant? Must they already have something solid to justify it, or is suspicion enough?

And maybe not. Maybe all they need to do is piece together a plausible sequence of events and movements, and then provide evidence to back it up (CCTV, witness sightings, etc)?

Is there a legal buff here who can help fill in the gaps in my knowledge?

Police have powers to obtain non-intimate forensic samples .

Police assemble a brief of evidence for the DPP - who decides whether to proceed with charging the POI. If so the matter will go to a committal hearing before a magistrate who also looks at the evidence to ascertain whether there is enough prima faciefor a jury to convict (some exceptions if POI decides to plead guilty and bypass committal).
In NSW there is a presumption against bail for certain offences including murder.
The 'double jeopardy' principle is called 'autrefois acquit' and 'autrefois convict'. Simply it means that a person cannot be retried for the same or similar offence for which they have been previously tried and acquitted or convicted.
Like every rule there are exceptions - new evidence for example.
This rule is not the same as an appeal against a conviction or acquittal. For that there generally must be some 'error in law' in the original trial.

In this matter I believe that NSW Police are simply 'getting all their ducks in a row'. It's only a matter of time....
FWIW, discussion about JO's looks etc are unfair. Not every man wants an anorexic show pony for a gf.
Most likely she had been friends with the victim for so long because her mother's family had involvement in the business of the hotel where he had his last drink. I wouldn't read any more into the situation than that. :twocents:

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Phew - I've just about caught up with this thread, which is growing ahead of where I was reading almost as fast as I was reading it...!

One thing springs to mind - if the attack was "frenzied" and in a rage, one would reasonably expect there to be some noise - yelling, shouting, screaming, etc, by the attacker. It takes a certain type of cold-blooded killer to inflict 30-odd stab wounds silently.

So was there a fair bit of noise? And if so, was that what woke up the flatmate? In which case, the perp sure didn't have much time to think about cleaning up, setting the scene, etc - just enough to hightail it out of there. Blood and all.

So I wonder if forensics found footprints either IN the blood at the scene, or outside?

And I wonder how many of the 14 girlfriends, PLUS all the other third parties it MAY have been, have watertight alibis?

Now I obviously have just skimmed through the thread to this point, so some of this may have been overlooked by me and discussed previously. But 30 stab wounds? With somebody else allegedly asleep in bed in the same apartment? And no apparent noise, either from the victim or the perpetrator?

All sounds somewhat fishy to me....

Hi old friend
There are contrasting versions of this story. In the early versions the Irish physio flattie was asleep in her room and something woke her up.
the later version is that she was on a girls' night out, arrived home shortly before 0300, heard a 'moaning and gargling noise' from the victim's room, went in and discovered him semi conscious on the floor in the foetal position.
Called 000 at 0301, -

Curled up on the floor beside his bed was a semiconscious Mr Huxley. He was bleeding profusely from three gaping holes in his neck and blood was pooling beneath him.
The Triple-0 call to the NSW Ambulance Service sounded so serious that three crews responded. The initial call stated a man was suffering 30 stab wounds to his back and neck. Police would later discover it was 28 wounds - 3 large and deep penetrating wounds to the same side of his neck, then dozens of small stab and slash wounds to his back.

When paramedics got to Mr Huxley, he was already in cardiac arrest. With time imperative, four paramedics jumped in the back of the ambulance and worked on the dying man as they raced to Royal North Shore Hospital, under a police escort.

But despite their best efforts, and those of emergency doctors at the hospital, Mr Huxley died soon after arriving.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...va-morgan-huxley/story-fni0cx12-1226724096453

 

[DrWatson]

Thanks LB - good to see you over here too

So upon finding the victim, still alive, and clothed above the waist which would make checking stab wounds tricky, she was still able to make a pretty close guesstimate of the number of stab wounds? 30 vs 28?

Wow - that's pretty good triage and assessment.

Or maybe I'm just cynical, as always

This is certainly a case to follow - the problem being that the police are obviously in possession of a heck of a lot more information than we have, or that has been made public. And that, of course, is the way it should be.

Would be interesting to see that autopsy report, though.... lease:

 

[Supaplex]

My gut feeling is there are two people involved. From the three gaping neck wounds I believe were done by one person and the smaller back wounds done by another. For me, Morgan doesn't look the type to have been overpowered so easily by one person. So I'm thinking due to the fact he obviously he had a keen interest in sex this could have been a guy and a girl premeditated . The girl convincing the guy to be part of threesome in order to kill Morgan. And Morgan dated pretty girls who could persuade other guys of lesser standing to do anything with 'favours'.

The motivation is obviously emotional/betrayal. I believe the 'nice guy' image of Morgan is overplayed to an extent. With someone dating 14 girls at once you have to conceive that yes he may have been generally nice but obviously emotionally cold, perhaps blunt and ego was his eventual downfall, perhaps his personality changed when he decided to end a relationship. And that got someone back up. Or he requested the wrong type of sex to a girl...say with multiple partners and that infuriated her as she felt things were more special. Or he just wanted sex but no relationship and the girl was so hung up on him she had to exact revenge so no-one else had him.

Generally I think it is the person who lives nearby just with a male alongside.

 

[FigTree]

Phew - I've just about caught up with this thread, which is growing ahead of where I was reading almost as fast as I was reading it...!

One thing springs to mind - if the attack was "frenzied" and in a rage, one would reasonably expect there to be some noise - yelling, shouting, screaming, etc, by the attacker. It takes a certain type of cold-blooded killer to inflict 30-odd stab wounds silently.

So was there a fair bit of noise? And if so, was that what woke up the flatmate? In which case, the perp sure didn't have much time to think about cleaning up, setting the scene, etc - just enough to hightail it out of there. Blood and all.

So I wonder if forensics found footprints either IN the blood at the scene, or outside?

And I wonder how many of the 14 girlfriends, PLUS all the other third parties it MAY have been, have watertight alibis?

Now I obviously have just skimmed through the thread to this point, so some of this may have been overlooked by me and discussed previously. But 30 stab wounds? With somebody else allegedly asleep in bed in the same apartment? And no apparent noise, either from the victim or the perpetrator?

All sounds somewhat fishy to me....

I think that was the main reason I was a bit dubious about the msm and Police reports being correct (though contradictory) as if the flatmate had gone to sleep or had just arrived home. Even the thought that there was someone else in the flat would have been a deterrent if it was premeditated.

msm and the Police reports keep us busy while we're waiting for news ...

 

[Ausgirl]

Amazing powers of observation, I agree. I think the accounts of how and when Morgan was found need to examined very carefully, is all I am saying at this point.

As for noise, Dr Watson.. this is why I think the attack was very sudden and unexpected - hard to yell with your throat cut several times, maybe.. But it's very weird to me that the attack is so concentrated in one small place - look at the Alexander/Arias case, another frenzied attack on a healthy young man (and he was shot as well) - blood all over, clear signs of struggle throughout the house as well as self defense.

It just seems very weird to me that Morgan would have three neck wounds that were not immediately fatal, and then lie down obligingly in one place for the 25+ more stabs, which much have each hurt like hell.

Shock could account for some immobility, for sure.. but the more I think about it, the weirder that feels.

 

[Supaplex]

Jean not being a POI. I think she just gave a rough figure which happens to be a lucky guess. I don't think it's anything to get hung up on. It's too easy to get hung up on something like that. Even if you were Morgans killer I very much doubt you'd know how many stab wounds you inflicted either. You'd be all adrenalin rushed and not counting, so yes If it was a flat mate LE would not be searching outside for evidence.

It would be too impractical anyway. 28 stabs are in my mind premeditated and wanting someone to die. At this point when she rung police, who knows he could have been saved for all she knew and given her name instantly. If you lived with someone and wanted them to die you'd find them the next morning if you were that cold. So yeah. Sticking with another girl and guy theory. Very much a duo.