Match! NY - Caledonia, WhtFem 1UFNY, 13-19, Turquoise Necklace, Nov'79 *Tammy Alexander*

[annegrete]

Thank you for all of the archived articles recently referenced.

Thank you for submission of Nancy.

Regarding the photo of the Oct 20 banquet, the girl in the middle of the top row of the top picture does resemble Cali. I want her to be Cali so we can move the process along, BUT, I doubt she is. She's holding a plaque, which means she probably won it or was with someone who was awarded it. Surely they would have recognized her as being Cali? That group looks to be part of a tight-knit community, so surely someone from that group would have missed her. Or, was she a sort of anonymous racetrack "groupie" (for lack of a better word) who just tagged along to the banquet? If this is the case, then if she is Cali, it makes sense no one recognized her or cared to call in a tip.

She is considered caucasian, but did they test to see what caucasian ethnic group she's from? Personally, I get a French Canadian vibe, someone else on this thread suggested Irish or Spanish. She's tanned and also has lividity, which makes her seem Native American, also, IMO. Has she been checked for Native American ethnicity? Another post in this thread highlighted the rarity of A neg blood. It is common in the Blackfoot Indians. Let's test her.

Again, caucasian/white means A LOT of things. God Forbid if I was a Jane Doe, they certainly would say I am caucasian, but most people would say central European b/c I'm blonde and blue eyes. (I'm actually 50% Italian, from a line of blonde/red head Italians; 25% Irish, 23% Dutch) People have asked me if I'm ethnically Jewish, too. There should be testing done to see her ethnic breakdown, I think it would help.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

IIRC, he said that they photoshopped out the bullet wound just above the inside corner of her right eye, and the modifications to the PM photo have affected her appearance.

I also noticed that in the frontal PM photo, her jawline has been digitally altered. I am guessing that there might have been a little postmortem sagging of her cheeks that they attempted to remove.

Thank You Carl!! That info is very helpful. I think those alterations are affecting getting her identified. Especially given how hard, and how long y'all worked on giving her back her name. From the perspective of a family member.....none of you get the Thanks you deserve, yet all are more appreciated than you know!!!!!

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

Thank you for all of the archived articles recently referenced.

Thank you for submission of Nancy.

Regarding the photo of the Oct 20 banquet, the girl in the middle of the top row of the top picture does resemble Cali. I want her to be Cali so we can move the process along, BUT, I doubt she is. She's holding a plaque, which means she probably won it or was with someone who was awarded it. Surely they would have recognized her as being Cali? That group looks to be part of a tight-knit community, so surely someone from that group would have missed her. Or, was she a sort of anonymous racetrack "groupie" (for lack of a better word) who just tagged along to the banquet? If this is the case, then if she is Cali, it makes sense no one recognized her or cared to call in a tip.

She is considered caucasian, but did they test to see what caucasian ethnic group she's from? Personally, I get a French Canadian vibe, someone else on this thread suggested Irish or Spanish. She's tanned and also has lividity, which makes her seem Native American, also, IMO. Has she been checked for Native American ethnicity? Another post in this thread highlighted the rarity of A neg blood. It is common in the Blackfoot Indians. Let's test her.

Again, caucasian/white means A LOT of things. God Forbid if I was a Jane Doe, they certainly would say I am caucasian, but most people would say central European b/c I'm blonde and blue eyes. (I'm actually 50% Italian, from a line of blonde/red head Italians; 25% Irish, 23% Dutch) People have asked me if I'm ethnically Jewish, too. There should be testing done to see her ethnic breakdown, I think it would help.

I keep referencing old articles because I keep reading and rereading this thread....lol.....everybody worked so hard for her.....it is not what is known in this case, I think......it is much of what is not known. I agree.....the extra testing would be a huge help!!!!!

 

[momrids6]

Thank you for all of the archived articles recently referenced.



Regarding the photo of the Oct 20 banquet, the girl in the middle of the top row of the top picture does resemble Cali. I want her to be Cali so we can move the process along, BUT, I doubt she is. She's holding a plaque, which means she probably won it or was with someone who was awarded it. Surely they would have recognized her as being Cali? That group looks to be part of a tight-knit community, so surely someone from that group would have missed her. Or, was she a sort of anonymous racetrack "groupie" (for lack of a better word) who just tagged along to the banquet? If this is the case, then if she is Cali, it makes sense no one recognized her or cared to call in a tip.

[/B]

RSBM: "Holding small plaques are the people who helped in race nite." Quoted from the banquet .pdf. Kind of iffy on quite what that means. Will be trying to contact that club shortly- hopefully the member that wrote the article.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

I was reading back through the forum and came across the posts speculating that she could be one of many missing foster children. As sad as it is many foster children did go missing and unreported during that era. Does anybody know if any agency ever created a website with pictures of these children on it? Or do we still have many missing foster kids from that era sitting in file cabinets with nobody having the time or inclination to list them as missing? I know that foster kids who disappear now are listed on all the sites (I HOPE) but did anyone ever take the time to go back and list the ones who vanished during the 70's? Is little Cali sitting in a file cabinet simply because nobody wants to take the time or spend the money to acknowledge these children?

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

I also noticed in several of the very early posts, that somebody saw a girl among the photos Bradford had that resembled Cali. None of the links from the very early forum posts still work.....and I could not find the viewable size of those photos.......does anybody have a link to them that still works?

 

[Nameless Helper]

Thanks for submitting her for us. :rockon: I was waiting for a Mod to give the ok. Only reason is because I feel the Mod is the "expert" and often when I sleuth stuff, in my excitement I miss details that would lead to obvious rule outs. Like CarlK might say nope due to height or age. I definitely respect the Mods, because otherwise IMOO, I would submit so much stuff that was way off and bog down the system...LOL.

I posted another article in my last post about reasons she may have left, those include unwanted sexual affection. Anyway, thanks for submitting for us. I hope this is Cali. http://whereaboutsstillunknown.wordpress.com/2013/03/18/nancy-jason/ and here is more about the Doctor treating her http://www.prem-rawat-bio.org/premies/hallowitz.html

Nancy is still on Namus...
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/13877

I just found out that Nancy Lynn Jason was ruled on March 13, 2012 by direct DNA comparison. This was done by the University of North Texas.

Next?

 

[annegrete]

Myrna

http://www.sacp.ca/missing/details.php?id=35

She had dental work, and according to some sources, Cali had dental work by someone trained outside of the US. Do we want to put something together?

 

[annegrete]

Here's my updated list of Cali's rule-outs:

Teresa Alfonso 1961 Florida
Lisa Borden 1960 Texas
Melinda Creech 1965 Indiana
Eileen Hynson 1957 California
Karen Kamsch 1962 Maryland
Tina Kemp 1964 Delaware
Nancy Lynn Jason Maryland
Deborah McCall 1963 Illinois
Angela Meeker 1965 Washington
Linette Marie Miller Queens, NY
Barbara Monaco 1960 Virginia
Angela Ramsey 1961 Florida
Marcia Remick 1962 Virginia
Simone Ridinger 1960 Massachusetts
Mary Shinn 1953 Arkansas
Debra Spickler 1955 Connecticut
Sarah Tokier 1960 California
Belinda VanLith 1957 Minnesota
Anna Waters 1967 California
Christina White 1967 Washington
April Zane 1960 Illinois
Karen Zendrosky 1963 New Jersey

I want to find out more about Myrna Montgrand, but there isn't a whole lot....

 

[zinc]

Or do we still have many missing foster kids from that era sitting in file cabinets with nobody having the time or inclination to list them as missing? I know that foster kids who disappear now are listed on all the sites (I HOPE) but did anyone ever take the time to go back and list the ones who vanished during the 70's? Is little Cali sitting in a file cabinet simply because nobody wants to take the time or spend the money to acknowledge these children?

Documents on most 70's-era foster children might not exist anywhere anymore, let alone sit neglected in a filing cabinet. Even when it comes to law enforcement, a lot of local police departments neither preserved evidence from decades-old criminal cases nor retained old police reports or missing persons records. Automatic purges of old missing persons records were once especially common. Many jurisdictions also routinely removed juvenile missing person reports once the MP would have passed 18th birthday.

There isn't much standardization yet as to whether recent missing people are posted on NamUs or not. Depends on the jurisdiction handling the MP report.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

Documents on most 70's-era foster children might not exist anywhere anymore, let alone sit neglected in a filing cabinet. Even when it comes to law enforcement, a lot of local police departments neither preserved evidence from decades-old criminal cases nor retained old police reports or missing persons records. Automatic purges of old missing persons records were once especially common. Many jurisdictions also routinely removed juvenile missing person reports once the MP would have passed 18th birthday.

There isn't much standardization yet as to whether recent missing people are posted on NamUs or not. Depends on the jurisdiction handling the MP report.

I know.......from personal experience.....I know.......but....if we find files on 20 kids that are not listed, and get them listed......that is 20 more who might get to go home.......if we get 1 child home....that alone would make it worth all the toes I am about to stomp on......

 

[Roselvr]

I was reading back through the forum and came across the posts speculating that she could be one of many missing foster children. As sad as it is many foster children did go missing and unreported during that era. Does anybody know if any agency ever created a website with pictures of these children on it? Or do we still have many missing foster kids from that era sitting in file cabinets with nobody having the time or inclination to list them as missing? I know that foster kids who disappear now are listed on all the sites (I HOPE) but did anyone ever take the time to go back and list the ones who vanished during the 70's? Is little Cali sitting in a file cabinet simply because nobody wants to take the time or spend the money to acknowledge these children?

It's really sad how teens as young as 13 were reported as runaway; thus no report back then. You know this better then anyone how hard it was. If they even listed them as runaway; it took a lot of pushing from family to change it to missing. Adults also could come & go as they please; no report again. One mission I had before I got busy on another case was to try to spread the word on FB to anyone that would listen that if they knew someone that has not been seen to please file a report & to do it now. To make sure they get family DNA in NamUs. You actually may be able to help me make a difference.

It would not surprise me if Cali was local to NY. There are a lot of children of the 70's that were "forgotten children" for whatever reason. She probably took off hitch-hiking like a lot of teens did.

There was a case in TN that was finally solved where the MP report was sitting in a file cabinet.

Last news story 1st; below it is what they did to ID him. Remind you of Cali? -

The article really ripped my heart out. Can't imagine what the family is going thru.

Now that the pieces are coming together... How was there a missing person's report but no one ever checked? Where has it been? They have it now.

Perfect match: Technology, newspaper article, luck solve mystery of remains

Dobbs pulled the missing person report filed on Hardin and confirmed the clothes found with the remains matched those last seen on Hardin by his girlfriend, Linda Gaile Cole.

“Once I had a name, I could start pulling all the pieces together,” Dobbs Sadi.

Dobbs said she has interviewed Cole as part of the now active investigation.

DNA evidence helps Knox County Sheriff's Office ID 1982 murder victim

Knoxville deputies have identified the man whose body was found in an East Knox County field in 1982.

DNA evidence has confirmed the body to be that of Howard Hardin, who was 30 at the time of his death.

Hardin's family came forward several months ago after seeing a report in a local newspaper about an effort to identify his remains.

Hardin's body was found on January 12, 1982, in an area off of Clear Springs Road and Arnold Lane when the property owner found his skeletal remains under some brush.

A forensic investigation found that Hardin had been shot in the head execution style with a small caliber pistol. Obvious attempts had also been made to conceal the body.

Hardin was originally reported missing almost a year earlier on January 17, 1981 by his then-girlfriend, Linda Gaile Cole, when he failed to return to his Linden Avenue apartment .

Over the years, Knoxville deputies took several steps to find the identity of his body through a missing persons database and even by working with anthropologists to reconstruct his cranium and create age regression images of him.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

It's really sad how teens as young as 13 were reported as runaway; thus no report back then. You know this better then anyone how hard it was. If they even listed them as runaway; it took a lot of pushing from family to change it to missing. Adults also could come & go as they please; no report again. One mission I had before I got busy on another case was to try to spread the word on FB to anyone that would listen that if they knew someone that has not been seen to please file a report & to do it now. To make sure they get family DNA in NamUs. You actually may be able to help me make a difference.

It would not surprise me if Cali was local to NY. There are a lot of children of the 70's that were "forgotten children" for whatever reason. She probably took off hitch-hiking like a lot of teens did.

There was a case in TN that was finally solved where the MP report was sitting in a file cabinet.

Last news story 1st; below it is what they did to ID him. Remind you of Cali? -

Yes.....it very much reminds me of Cali. It is just so sad that as many people have put in so much hard work on her case.....and it is like nobody is looking for her. I can't imagine it......a family missing a person.....and not noticing......or not searching.......then from a family perspective I remember how hard those searches are......so maybe they have just found peace somehow.......but Cali needs peace too.

 

[zinc]

I know.......from personal experience.....I know.......but....if we find files on 20 kids that are not listed, and get them listed......that is 20 more who might get to go home.......if we get 1 child home....that alone would make it worth all the toes I am about to stomp on......

You're right, you have more experience with 1970s records by now than anyone should be forced to have. Please forgive me for not remembering that. And it's not that I disagree with you at all. It appalls me that a relatively low-cost (nowadays) means of connecting lost people with their loved ones should still be so little used. But it is as you say — to get what few old files do still exist and do what is necessary to get them properly listed requires a lot of toe-stomping and a lot of qualified and patient toe-stompers.

One mission I had before I got busy on another case was to try to spread the word on FB to anyone that would listen that if they knew someone that has not been seen to please file a report & to do it now. To make sure they get family DNA in NamUs. You actually may be able to help me make a difference. [...]

Yeah, this is important. And in cases where the report was filed more than a few years ago, to make sure it is still on file, start the NamUs entry, and keep it updated.

It would not surprise me if Cali was local to NY. There are a lot of children of the 70's that were "forgotten children" for whatever reason. She probably took off hitch-hiking like a lot of teens did.

She has gone unidentified for so long that no possibility should be dismissed out of hand, but investigators and researchers in all the most recent articles really emphasize the possible southwest connection. I hope that anyone looking at old yearbooks, etc. doesn't take that lightly. Since we are not privy to the details of exactly how the study was done, what else was in the pollen prints, or how strong the conclusions are, I don't know how much we can really speculate about whether the researchers got it right or not. This goes double for the possible isotopic analysis claims, for which we have no hard copy reference at all.

I would not count myself as a Caledonia Jane Doe searcher though, so take it with a grain of salt. I think if she's ever identified it's going to either be through a CODIS hit or via the kind of chance family/friend encounter and years and years of investment Todd Matthews put into finding the Tent Girl.

Having said that, here's the far-flung and very far-fetched possible I'll throw in the ring, an Australian girl of about the right age. There are several others on the same site that might fit the bill as well.

Marion Carol Rees
Missing since April 7, 1975 from Malabar, New South Wales, Australia
https://www.ebiz.police.nsw.gov.au/.../displayIndividualDetails.do?photoRefNum=1163



Skimming through the thread I see a lot of questioning and some confusion about the evidence as it's presented in the Wikipedia article. I'm going to out myself as the author of most of the current Wikipedia text, which was posted using a friend's account. (If you have sharp eyes you'll notice I made another couple small edits today.)

I affixed citations to most of the statements in the article. If you aren't sure where a piece of information came from, please follow the citation link and see if that answers your question. If you can't find it or feel I made a mistake, please don't hesitate to ask about it here. I'll answer to the best of my ability. To answer one issue that has been raised several times: in cases where I read conflicting information from multiple sources, I did my best to reconcile it by generally going with the data from the sources that had more detail and newer information.

I've since done a little more reading about palynology. After looking back over the forensic palynology slides PDF I plan to change the line about the best pollen match to refer to the areal and forensic evidence pollen prints as a whole, not just the Casuarina grains.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

You're right, you have more experience with 1970s records by now than anyone should be forced to have. Please forgive me for not remembering that. And it's not that I disagree with you at all. It appalls me that a relatively low-cost (nowadays) means of connecting lost people with their loved ones should still be so little used. But it is as you say — to get what few old files do still exist and do what is necessary to get them properly listed requires a lot of toe-stomping and a lot of qualified and patient toe-stompers.



Yeah, this is important. And in cases where the report was filed more than a few years ago, to make sure it is still on file, start the NamUs entry, and keep it updated.



She has gone unidentified for so long that no possibility should be dismissed out of hand, but investigators and researchers in all the most recent articles really emphasize the possible southwest connection. I hope that anyone looking at old yearbooks, etc. doesn't take that lightly. Since we are not privy to the details of exactly how the study was done, what else was in the pollen prints, or how strong the conclusions are, I don't know how much we can really speculate about whether the researchers got it right or not. This goes double for the possible isotopic analysis claims, for which we have no hard copy reference at all.


Having said that, here's the far-flung and very far-fetched possible I'll throw in the ring, an Australian girl of about the right age. There are several others on the same site that might fit the bill as well.

Marion Carol Rees
Missing since April 7, 1975 from Malabar, New South Wales, Australia
https://www.ebiz.police.nsw.gov.au/.../displayIndividualDetails.do?photoRefNum=1163



Skimming through the thread I see a lot of questioning and some confusion about the evidence as it's presented in the Wikipedia article. I'm going to out myself as the author of most of the current Wikipedia text, which was posted using a friend's account. (If you have sharp eyes you'll notice I made another couple small edits today.)

.

No apology is needed. I did not mean to sound snappy in my response, and for that I do apologize. The entire happenings with children in the 70's......quite frankly just torques me off!!!!

My mother always taught us you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar......when it comes to that era, I disagree. I am not a very patient toe stomper, but I stomp amazingly hard......and I am like many breeds.....I sink my teeth in and then I do not let it go.

There are people out there who know this girl. She did not make it across the US without meeting someone.....maybe they gave her a ride......maybe a meal......but she certainly had help in getting to where she was found.So they need to focus less on being quiet, and more on giving her back her name.

She is in somebodies file cabinet someplace.....or some family members memory........trust me, I know......you do not just forget a family member who vanishes.

The time has come to dust off those old files......and start going down them. The time has come to once again bring focus to the mistakes of the 70's......when children were thrown away like they did not matter, under the heading of runaway.

The time has come for the DCFS to release the names of those missing children they do not like to acknowledge. Everyone of those kids deserve to be listed, and if possible......accounted for.

If anybody can think of a kind sweet way of getting this done, I am always open to suggestions......but until that happens.......I am going to start sending emails......and making phone calls.....talking to all who will listen........and even to those who do not wish to.

These children have rights.....they are human beings......and their families deserve answers. No person deserves to be buried without a name.......nobody deserves to be forgotten........as if their time on this earth did not matter.......for everyone of them does matter.

And little Cali......deserved more than to be murdered in a cornfield.....left to lay there as if she did not matter.......and still not acknowledged......

 

[zinc]

Found a brief mention of the stable isotope analysis on her teeth in a now-defunct local weekly dated November 16, 2006. It does say preliminary results indicate she may be from the south/southwest region of the United States. Nice to see it in print.

The Lake & Valley Clarion: Authorities use technology to solve Jane Doe murder, more tips sought
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=DJA1AAAAIBAJ&sjid=YfcFAAAAIBAJ&pg=2269,957244

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

Found a brief mention of the stable isotope analysis on her teeth in a now-defunct local weekly dated November 16, 2006. It does say preliminary results indicate she may be from the south/southwest region of the United States. Nice to see it in print.

The Lake & Valley Clarion: Authorities use technology to solve Jane Doe murder, more tips sought
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=DJA1AAAAIBAJ&sjid=YfcFAAAAIBAJ&pg=2269,957244

Thank You Zinc!! I have been wanting a reference source on her testing. I notice this article changes her description from "athletic built" to "slightly built". From her pics I was having trouble picturing her as athletic built.

 

[annegrete]

The article "Authorities use technology to solve Jane Doe murder, more tips sought" answers my question about what happened to Cali's clothes. Was she buried in them or were they preserved by LE? Well, according to the article "the clothing, which has been meticulously maintained in evidence over the years..."

And yes, the article also states that she may have been from the South/Southwest region of the US. I would like to know the statistics. Because the South/Southwest results do not sound like they're a definitive conclusion to where she's from. Anyway, we've seen in other posts that she probably spent the first two years of her life in the South/Southwest, as that is when the teeth form and pick up the isotopes.

BUUUUUUUUUUT, she could have easily moved to NY when she turned 3 or 5 or 10! And that means people knew her. Somewhere, they do. I've always felt she was more local than not. If she was a throw away kid, b/c of social services, bad foster parents, or extremely neglectful biological parents, then it's possible her attendance in NY state schools was spotty to nil, esp when she got to high school.

My next question- and I'm not sure who to email or how to research this, so anyone who wants to help or guide me in the right direction, PLEASE DO!!!
What other countries have similar water isotopes to the American South/Southwest?

 

[annegrete]

Now, I've had a feeling this girl is French-Canadian who grew up in a Cajun region of Louisiana (or maybe Texas). And the isotopes testing says she may have spent the first two years of her life in the South/Southwest. What does south mean, anyway?

First, "south" overlaps texas with southwest, so we can't eliminate Texas from our search. Below you will find three maps that show all of what is considered "the South" in the US:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...a=X&ei=eT9MUs_sKaPWyQHlvoH4BQ&ved=0CFEQ9QEwBQ


http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...a=X&ei=eT9MUs_sKaPWyQHlvoH4BQ&ved=0CFUQ9QEwBw

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...a=X&ei=eT9MUs_sKaPWyQHlvoH4BQ&ved=0CFcQ9QEwCA

Now, the American Southwest. As you will see, Texas is considered part of the Southwest.
http://www.southwesternherp.com/americansouthwestdefined.html

https://www.google.com/search?q=the...g%2Fwiki%2FSouthwestern_United_States;572;371


We need to find out the specifics of those isotopes, as the South and Southwest are vast!!! Once we know specifics (if we ever do), then we can focus our search!

 

[zinc]

Yes, the clothes are reported as having been kept in well-sealed containers over the decades.

And yes, the article also states that she may have been from the South/Southwest region of the US. I would like to know the statistics. Because the South/Southwest results do not sound like they're a definitive conclusion to where she's from. Anyway, we've seen in other posts that she probably spent the first two years of her life in the South/Southwest, as that is when the teeth form and pick up the isotopes.

BUUUUUUUUUUT, she could have easily moved to NY when she turned 3 or 5 or 10!

Keeping in mind that I am not an expert on this topic, and may well be wrong:

By itself, an oxygen stable isotope ratio can only indicate a probable region of residence during the period of formation for the specific tested material, which in this case was probably tooth enamel. The age at which a permanent tooth's enamel completes mineralization is different for different types of teeth.

I don't believe we know which of Cali Doe's teeth were tested, except that they wouldn't have been the permanent third molars. The oxygen result may cover her childhood as late as age 8, when permanent second molars complete crown mineralization.

It would be nice to know if they tried any other isotopes as well, or other body parts.

My next question- and I'm not sure who to email or how to research this, so anyone who wants to help or guide me in the right direction, PLEASE DO!!!
What other countries have similar water isotopes to the American South/Southwest?

Depends on which isotopes, what source, what time of year...

http://www.waterisotopes.org might be an interesting place for you to get started. It has some nice global and continental maps you can eyeball to get a rough sense, but mind the maps are for precipitation. The values are not necessarily the same for ground water, tap water, or enamel or bone of original or long-term residents. There are data and references pages too.