Identified! Greece - LIVING 4 year old, with Roma couple, Oct'13 - #1

[pieper4]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24635560
Some interesting comments. Not sure I've seen this posted here?

 

[fruity]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24635560
Some interesting comments. Not sure I've seen this posted here?

Very interesting!

As many as 3,000 children in Greece are in the hands of child-trafficking rings originating in Bulgaria, Romania and other Balkan countries, Unicef says.

Most cases are not thought to involve abduction but rather the buying and selling of children for a few thousand euros.

Part of the problem in Greece appears to lie in its localised and out-of-date child-registration system.

 

[jjenny]

Their latest version of how they got the child.

"Now the couple says that a prostitute and her pimp/boyfriend, “Michaelis,” were looking for a home for the unwanted baby among local Roma families and they could not resist the urge to help the baby, according to their lawyer Marietta Palavra, who spoke to NBC News in an exclusive interview."

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/...xplains-their-side-of-mystery-girl-story?lite

 

[fruity]

Does anyone have a really reliable source with a quote regarding what the parents say? I'm not sure if it's a case of inaccurate reporting, a game of Chinese whispers, or if they're changing their story.

They admit buying her but say it was adoption in a “non-legal way”.

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/world-news/roma-couple-planned-sell-blonde-2485966

A lawyer for Sali and Dimopoulou claims Maria had been abandoned.

http://www.news.com.au/world/europe...be-a-child-bride/story-fnh81p7g-1226745995205

 

[fruity]

Their latest version of how they got the child.

"Now the couple says that a prostitute and her pimp/boyfriend, “Michaelis,” were looking for a home for the unwanted baby among local Roma families and they could not resist the urge to help the baby, according to their lawyer Marietta Palavra, who spoke to NBC News in an exclusive interview."

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/...xplains-their-side-of-mystery-girl-story?lite

We cross posted. Very interesting. I don't know what to believe.

 

[jjenny]

We cross posted. Very interesting. I don't know what to believe.

It's kind of hard to know what to believe when they reportedly told so many stories of how they got the child.
I've read that they claimed child's father was Canadian, or that he was in prison. Well now he is a pimp. And mother is a Roma prostitute. I thought Romas weren't engaging in prostitution.

 

[windstorm]

I think that's the problem LE initially had with them. The 40-11 different stories of how they got Maria to begin with. An article I posted earlier (way upthread) said "dad" is kind of throwing "mom" under the bus. I keep thinking he might plea & tell the truth. But, then, we won't know it's the truth because there have been so many stories told.

 

[whovillebaby]

It's kind of hard to know what to believe when they reportedly told so many stories of how they got the child.
I've read that they claimed child's father was Canadian, or that he was in prison. Well now he is a pimp. And mother is a Roma prostitute. I thought Romas weren't engaging in prostitution.

She may be Roma Gypsy now but is probably a child born of human trafficking. JMO

 

[Wendy101]

It's kind of hard to know what to believe when they reportedly told so many stories of how they got the child.
I've read that they claimed child's father was Canadian, or that he was in prison. Well now he is a pimp. And mother is a Roma prostitute. I thought Romas weren't engaging in prostitution.

Regardless the culture Gypsy families I have been reading in this thread(that they only steal and lie) , there are some bad apples..

IMO.. This lil girl was abducted...IMO.. Who are these two "parents" protecting by lying and why? It is not illegal to adopt there...is it? If given a child, well then you have custody and get money for the child (which they did) .. But they have no documents... Why? Why did they need to create false documents? Answer is ILLEGAL.. they have stolen a child and they know it. I don't care what the culture is ILLEGAL is ILLEGAL... Like everywhere else in our world... There are LAWS we have to follow. This couple is lying for a reason... People don't lie when they are innocent.

Aslo.. I do not believe Romas do not engage in prostitution.. Every culture does, well maybe some cultures do it for free then :banghead:

BTW: i was just bouncing off your post

 

[Brightbird]

And you would just hand over your child to one of those families? Or would you go through an adoption agency in the hope that your child is given the best odds possible?

That's a difficult question for me. In Australia, yes I would hand my child over to the state. But let's assume Maria was originally from Eastern Europe. From what I've heard about Eastern European orphanages, I have to wonder if gypsies wouldn't be a better bet - even with the begging, dancing and young marriage. I don't want to say all Eastern European orphanages are bad, but they do have a reputation for a reason no? From severe neglect to corrupt officials selling children to trafficking networks. And those that survive the system still have to face life ahead with no family, barely any education and skills, with many ending up in the sex trade, slavery, or on drugs. The odds of getting adopted by a decent family are not high enough, imo. So yeah, I could understand why a mother might give or even sell her baby to gypsies if that meant some type of protection from truly despicable people.

 

[jjenny]

That's a difficult question for me. In Australia, yes I would hand my child over to the state. But let's assume Maria was originally from Eastern Europe. From what I've heard about Eastern European orphanages, I have to wonder if gypsies wouldn't be a better bet - even with the begging, dancing and young marriage. I don't want to say all Eastern European orphanages are bad, but they do have a reputation for a reason no? From severe neglect to corrupt officials selling children to trafficking networks. And those that survive the system still have to face life ahead with no family, barely any education and skills, with many ending up in the sex trade, slavery, or on drugs. The odds of getting adopted by a decent family are not high enough, imo. So yeah, I could understand why a mother might give or even sell her baby to gypsies if that meant some type of protection from truly despicable people.

I am sorry, but a white, blue eyed and blond infant would very easy to adopt out.
So I fail to see why someone would give their baby to gypsies.

 

[Inana]

I still have seen zero evidence that this little girl was bought or bartered.

Someone explain to me how is it that this family isn't rolling in dough with all that illegally gotten welfare money. Where does it all go?




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This whole incident is clearly understood if one reads the earlier posts and the links provided.

Much of their money goes back to Romania or ends up in the hands of the leaders of the Roma community.

 

[whovillebaby]

I am sorry, but a white, blue eyed and blond infant would very easy to adopt out.
So I fail to see why someone would give their baby to gypsies.

Out of fear, or it may not have been the birth mother that gave/sold her to them. It could very well be a person trafficking the mother and she has no idea of it because she is locked up somewhere, and was maybe told the baby died.

 

[Brightbird]

I am sorry, but a white, blue eyed and blond infant would very easy to adopt out.
So I fail to see why someone would give their baby to gypsies.

Blonde blue eyed infants are probably pretty appealing to child sex traffickers and paedophiles too. I guess I don't see how her looks would have helped her if she was left to an orphanage.

 

[CETOMAMO]

Hi everyone! This is my first post here on WS. I've read a lot here, and came to greatly appreciate this awesome community.

I have a quick question, please correct me if I'm wrong, but has it been confirmed the Baby Lisa's Dad, JI, reported his credit card stolen a month after BL was reported missing, with fraudulent charges on it to a company for which to obtain new identity? Or has this been since debunked?

 

[Tugela]

I am sorry, but a white, blue eyed and blond infant would very easy to adopt out.
So I fail to see why someone would give their baby to gypsies.

I think the answer to that is they didn't. It seems that the story is heading towards the baby trafficking trade - probably these babies are "bred" specifically for supplying the illegal adoption market. The mother could be anyone, probably some prostitute or impoverished woman who gets paid to do it. She probably has no idea where the kid goes afterwards, other than to be "adopted" somewhere.

I doubt that the girl was intended to go to these Roma, she just ended up there. I read in one of the news reports that there was an adoption/trafficking ring broken up in Bulgaria at around the time she would have been born. She may have just been an inconvenient loose end at the time, and that is why she ended up where she did. If it turns out that is what happened it could be a good thing she ended up with the Roma, because the other alternative would have been a hole in the ground.

 

[jjenny]

I think the answer to that is they didn't. It seems that the story is heading towards the baby trafficking trade - probably these babies are "bred" specifically for supplying the illegal adoption market. The mother could be anyone, probably some prostitute or impoverished woman who gets paid to do it. She probably has no idea where the kid goes afterwards, other than to be "adopted" somewhere.

I doubt that the girl was intended to go to these Roma, she just ended up there. I read in one of the news reports that there was an adoption/trafficking ring broken up in Bulgaria at around the time she would have been born. She may have just been an inconvenient loose end at the time, and that is why she ended up where she did. If it turns out that is what happened it could be a good thing she ended up with the Roma, because the other alternative would have been a hole in the ground.

Their latest story is that mother was a Roma prostitute and father was her pimp.

 

[FrayedKnot]

Is that the law in Greece? That one can just hand off a child to whoever they want? No custody/adoption hearings or paperwork? I seriously doubt it. It's certainly not the case here in the U.S.

It is perfectly legal here in the U.S. to allow your child to live with another family/adult. No paperwork necessary.

And it's done all of the time. There is a whole generation of grandparents raising their grandkids without legal guardianship. And they are loving, caring providers. Usually more so than the people who conceived them.

Jhessye Shockley was being loved and cared for by relatives. Her legal guardian who birthed her got out of prison, took her back, tortured and murdered her.

 

[jjenny]

It is perfectly legal here in the U.S. to allow your child to live with another family/adult. No paperwork necessary.

And it's done all of the time. There is a whole generation of grandparents raising their grandkids without legal guardianship. And they are loving, caring providers. Usually more so than the people who conceived them.
...

Grandparents are related to the child.

 

[Inana]

From first post.

Officers stumbled on the girl during a police operation in relation to drugs and weapons offences at the settlement, located in the town of Farsala.

http://www.enetenglish.gr/?i=news.en.home&id=1553

does any one know where I might find Greek law on drugs and weapons? Is Greece soft on drugs, as are several other countries around there? Are weapons banned?

And does anyone know what Hristos Salis' former criminal record is? I wonder if it was theft or abuse. Hopefully not child abuse.

Thanks in advance.