Grand Jury True Bills John & Patsy Discussion thread

[BD1]

I still like my theory. I think PR caused the chronic damage to JB's body with corporel cleaning (which imo is sexual abuse). I think PR accidently killed her that night, probably due to rage over bed wetting. And I think she convinced JR that BR did it while molesting his sister, enlisting his help to cover the crime by staging within staging (She staged first before JR was aware of JB's death, then he helped her stage, believing he was covering for his son). I think JR at some point figured out he isn't sure which of his loved ones killed his daughter, but was now complicit and had to hold firm to the story.

 

[MissJ]

I still wonder, though, why JR lawyered up his ex wife and family. What did they know? IIRC the same was not done for the Paugh family. Just curious. MOO.

 

[Kimster]

Grand jurors who reviewed evidence in the death of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey indicted both of her parents for child abuse resulting in death and being an accessory to a crime, including first-degree murder, according to documents released Friday.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...tment_n_4163140.html?1382711402&ncid=webmail1

^^^ Just a summary for those popping in for news.

 

[time]

It does not make sense to me that the strangulation was staging. And I remember reading that PR would do something to JBR in the bathroom after she had accidents. Something is just too weird in that family.

Maybe it's just difficult to get over my own thoughts at this point, but I would not be surprised if the sexual molestation was from PR, or some/most of it. I can also see in that atmosphere how a child could engage in it with his younger sister. I can't sympathize with the Ramsey's for covering things even if it was for their remaining child. I kind of doubt it was for him, if so, but was for their own reputations sake. And, I got the feeling JR would have protected PR at any cost also.

 

[TroyinTX]

I wonder why BR has not ever talked about the case publicly since he has been an adult? You'd think at some point he'd want to talk about and how he wants the killer of his sister to be caught. Heck, I couldn't even tell you what BR looks like.

Seems like he moved on pretty easily considering he was front and center for one of the most notorious murders in American history.

 

[shefner]

Grand jurors who reviewed evidence in the death of 6-year-old JonBenet Ramsey indicted both of her parents for child abuse resulting in death and being an accessory to a crime, including first-degree murder, according to documents released Friday.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/...tment_n_4163140.html?1382711402&ncid=webmail1

^^^ Just a summary for those popping in for news.

Oh my goodness.....its about time we learned about this grand jury finding. Feels like someone in the DA's office should be indicted for something too. Can't believe they let these folks off free of charge.

 

[~n/t~]

So far all the legal analysts on CNN are saying these documents don't mean anything. Not enough evidence to charge and proceed with a trial was the decision back then and this remains a cold case.

No rotten tomatoes please. Just relaying what's being reported. :truce:

 

[time]

I still like my theory. I think PR caused the chronic damage to JB's body with corporel cleaning (which imo is sexual abuse). I think PR accidently killed her that night, probably due to rage over bed wetting. And I think she convinced JR that BR did it while molesting his sister, enlisting his help to cover the crime by staging within staging (She staged first before JR was aware of JB's death, then he helped her stage, believing he was covering for his son). I think JR at some point figured out he isn't sure which of his loved ones killed his daughter, but was now complicit and had to hold firm to the story.

I think it's also entirely possible PR injured her so badly they finished her off because they were not going to face the consequences of taking her to the hospital (and maybe she did convince JR to help with whatever because she convinced him BR did it). Sorry to be so graphic.

 

[dodie20]

something else I'm curious about. Excuse me for being stupid about legal proceedings, but I'm confused. Did JR and PR testify at the hearings? because BR did, right? through a video. Was it prerecorded? Was he called in as a witness or suspect? If he was seen s a witness, what was he considered a witness to? witnessing his parents cover for him? And if LE saw him as the murderer, would having him testify be seen as a 'trick' or was it perfectly legal? Sorry, but I really don't know.

 

[Kimster]

Oh my goodness.....its about time we learned about this grand jury finding. Feels like someone in the DA's office should be indicted for something too. Can't believe they let these folks off free of charge.

No kidding! Kudos to those who wouldn't let them off the hook!

 

[Linda7NJ]

So far all the legal analysts on CNN are saying these documents don't mean anything. Not enough evidence to charge and proceed with a trial was the decision back then and this remains a cold case.

No rotten tomatoes please. Just relaying what's being reported. :truce:

It true. In the grand scheme of things it doesn't mean much. I'm thrilled that John will never really get out from under that umbrella of suspicion. He will never know peace. This ripped the scab off...he will be forced to think about what he's done. I hope her sweet little face haunts him forever.

 

[vlpate]

So far all the legal analysts on CNN are saying these documents don't mean anything. Not enough evidence to charge and proceed with a trial was the decision back then and this remains a cold case.

No rotten tomatoes please. Just relaying what's being reported. :truce:

They have the evidence the Grand Jury saw? Awesome, where's it at??

 

[Elley Mae]

Oh my goodness.....its about time we learned about this grand jury finding. Feels like someone in the DA's office should be indicted for something too. Can't believe they let these folks off free of charge.

bbm
Exactly

The Ramseys were not officially indicted, however, because former District Attorney Alex Hunter refused to sign the documents to prosecute them. In 2008, then-Boulder District Attorney Mary Lacy exonerated the girl's parents and immediate family after DNA evidence pointed to an unknown male as JonBenét's killer.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/10/25/details-1-indictment-in-jonbenet-ramsey-slaying-to-be-released/

bbm, these two people in these positions should not have the authority to interfere with the decision/will of the people on a Grand Jury, any Grand Jury. Heads should roll.

 

[chlban]

Dragonlady;9926550I

JR would never have written such a ridiculous letter or even allowed it to see the light of day had he had the chance to get rid of it before

Yes, this has always been my feeling as well. That's why I had previously thought P wrote it and that J did not know what had happened, but was alerted when he did read it.

Now, however, I have to assume P wrote it while John wa busy working on other issues.

 

[drtee]

I kind of wonder if the garrote was applied by one of the parents after discovering her nearly dead with a serious head wound? Who knows, maybe they thought she was dead at that point already and were trying to stage it, even though it is what actually killed her.

I too have thought for a while Burke did this and the parents covered it up. I just suspect that they staged it to look like a sexual assault and strangulation. And then a kidnapping for ransom.

I think the garotte was part of the initial attack. Remember in the ransom note it threatens beheading her, and I always thought they planned to do that to cover up the garotte. Then they ran out of time.

 

[Donjeta]

Curiously, the charges in each parent's unsigned indictment are listed as Count IV(a) and Count VII. Recht said that shows the district attorney presented multiple possible charges to the grand jury — likely including murder — and that these two were the only ones the grand jury could agree upon. And that, Recht said, shows why Hunter was reluctant to go forward with any of the charges.

"In part, this vindicates Alex Hunter," Recht said. "He probably saw this as a classic compromise, and he believed, if he couldn't prove murder, he couldn't prove either of these beyond a reasonable doubt."

Read more: JonBenét Ramsey grand jury indictment accused parents of child abuse resulting in death - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/breakingn...-grand-jury-indictment-unsealed#ixzz2ikjgxmZx
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What on earth? Couldn't prove murder?

So did JBR try to commit suicide by garroting herself and hit her head or die of natural causes?

 

[ShadyLady]

I still like my theory. I think PR caused the chronic damage to JB's body with corporel cleaning (which imo is sexual abuse). I think PR accidently killed her that night, probably due to rage over bed wetting. And I think she convinced JR that BR did it while molesting his sister, enlisting his help to cover the crime by staging within staging (She staged first before JR was aware of JB's death, then he helped her stage, believing he was covering for his son). I think JR at some point figured out he isn't sure which of his loved ones killed his daughter, but was now complicit and had to hold firm to the story.

I think the housekeeper sealed the deal for me. I don't think a nine year old is sophisticated enough to know anything about a garrote. From wiki: "Experts noted that the construction of the garrote required a special knowledge of knots. ".....and maybe PR knew about garrotes from her own sexual games with JR. Her paint brush, her note, her history of bathroom punishment.

And how convenient to be able to indirectly blame BR.

 

[~n/t~]

It true. In the grand scheme of things it doesn't mean much. I'm thrilled that John will never really get out from under that umbrella of suspicion. He will never know peace. This ripped the scab off...he will be forced to think about what he's done. I hope her sweet little face haunts him forever.

I don't think he ever was out from that umbrella of suspicion by the public.

 

[SyraKelly]

I think the housekeeper sealed the deal for me. I don't think a nine year old is sophisticated enough to know anything about a garrote. From wiki: "Experts noted that the construction of the garrote required a special knowledge of knots. ".....and maybe PR knew about garrotes from her own sexual games with JR. Her paint brush, her note, her history of bathroom punishment.

And how convenient to be able to indirectly blame BR.

But didn't the R go sailing all the time
B could have learned to tie knots like that even if he was only 9-Remember John was in the Navy I believe-I can see father teaching son knot tying and flying planes!!

JMO

 

[~n/t~]

They have the evidence the Grand Jury saw? Awesome, where's it at??

See donjeta's post 116. I think it explains the reason why it never went forward:seeya: