Knowing all you know today about this case who do you think really killed JonBenet?

[DeDee]

BBM I don't think that JR is an innocent man either. IMO why PR has been implicated is that JR threatened her. IMO he could have forced her to write that note and intimidated her to cover up for him. Isn't the fact that he wrote another book in 2013 evidence that he is probably still protecting himself?

Or perhaps John Ramsey wrote the 2012 book The Other Side of Suffering simply bc he needed the money.

 

[Estelle]

Or perhaps John Ramsey wrote the 2012 book The Other Side of Suffering simply bc he needed the money.

Yes there could have been a multitude of reasons but reinforcing his innocence and money would have been the main ones.

 

[Estelle]

I still think Patsy did it but some act between JonBenet and Burke may have precipitated the event(s) that led to JonBenet's death, imo. It's not good to speculate without seeing all the evidence but, to me, that fits with both Thomas and Kolar's work.

What did Burke do?

 

[ElleElle]

I see elements of both as well. I see parts that look like JR's writing, and parts that look like PR's. I also see parts that don't look like either.

For me what is important is not the handwriting but why the body -wrapped, hidden (awaiting removal?) but still present where it can be discovered- doesn't fit with the RN. Doc's theory is the only one that, to me, makes sense of the RN.

Doc must have quit posting before I joined WS. I can't remember seeing any of his posts until a week or so ago.

Sorry I missed your post of a year ago. How was the reaction when you said JR might have written it?

BBM~ I hear you, however, why did JR not just leave the body until the police left? He certainly could of disposed of it on the 27th? Didn't the police originally look at the WC door to find it locked and carry on searching the house?

Did he know the Boulder police were onto them as suspects?

 

[ElleElle]

Hi all, have not followed this case other than just hearing things on the news every once in a while.

Can someone tell me what it means that the DNA sample on her underwear did not match to her immediate family members? Because in the news articles, they make it sound like that's what definitively means the immediate family members didn't do it...but I know from reading a little on this thread that it is pretty much accepted here that the Ramseys had something to do with it. And I trust you all way more than I do the mainstream media, but that's another story......

I kind of think the DNA was planted there. Or the lab made a mistake, or the Ramsey's were protected by internal forces.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I kind of think the DNA was planted there. Or the lab made a mistake, or the Ramsey's were protected by internal forces.

It was touch DNA. Skin cells that everyone sheds everyday. Its literally everywhere.

If it also matched the touch DNA found on the rope & under her fingernails.,, It would be different. But it doesn't.




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[Chili Fries]

I kind of think the DNA was planted there. Or the lab made a mistake, or the Ramsey's were protected by internal forces.

I think a lab mistake is a definite possibility. I have a lot of experience in lab quality control accreditation, and the lab that did the touch DNA had inferior quality control credentials when they tested the samples.

It's interesting to note that the lab has since upgraded it's accreditation to the preferred ISO 17025 standard, but when they did JonBenet's sample they may not have been as serious about the quality of their labwork in general.

 

[BOESP]

What did Burke do?

It isn't publicly known whether he did or did not become a part of the events leading up to and including the actions that allowed JonBenet to be killed.

This is a suggestion, and I think a good one for everyone who wants to know more and understand this case, but there are three books I'd recommend. All are available at libraries across the world and online at Amazon (new or used).

"Death of Innocence" by John and Patsy Ramsey.

"JonBenet. Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation" by Steve Thomas with Donald A. Davis.

"Foreign Faction. Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet," by James Kolar.

The latter two are by two detectives who worked the case: Thomas on the original investigation and Kolar on a reinvestigation for the DA's office under Mary Lacy.

 

[ElleElle]

Thanks WS'ers for referring to the books etc., but i'm relying on your sleuthing thoughts on this one.
This case is so confusing and it's nice to read poster's opinions on the case.
Some of us do not know the ins/out. I watched Aphrodite Jones' segment on this, and there are still many unanswered questions.

 

[redheadedgal]

I watched Aphrodite Jones' segment on this, and there are still many unanswered questions.

i have not watched the AJ show... but apparently it's FULL of misinformation.

see the WS forum below for corrections:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=455"]Rebuttal to Discovery I.D. Show about JonBenet - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[LinasK]

Does Burke have a relationship with his father now? Or do we know? I read the interview in the dad after DNA supposedly cleared him. I don't remember if he mentioned Burke?

I think Burke is in fear of the Great John Ramsey and his power and money. Wait 'till John is no longer a threat, and then we may hear some truth from Burke as to what he knows...

 

[ElleElle]

Thanks God we all have an 'open mind' on this forum....Every scenario is possible IN THE MIND of it's creator. Agree? So, let's also agree that everyone is entitled to solve this mystery in the way it fits individual's logic and currently known evidences. Kind of, like every individual can see/describe the painting on the museum wall differently...

Correct, opinions are formed based on personal experience. :loveyou:

 

[rose222]

I suppose there is a possibility that Burke did it but I'm not even sure if it was physically possible for him to do what was done to JonBenet.

One thing I'm sure of is that whoever killed JonBenet did so out of anger/rage/jealousy. This rules out the father for me. I think he abused her which is why he agreed to cover the mess up. I just don't think he did it. Even if JonBenet cried that night and said she'd tell the world about their 'games' I don't think the first reaction would be to kill her so violently. It's more likely that the father would coax her, bribe her etc. She was a baby really.

Patsy or Burke did it out of pure jealousy/rage. I'm leaning towards Patsy.

 

[Estelle]

It is usually the father so what grounds do you have to think it is Patsy? Jealousy/rage, etc. Why? What would be her motives?

 

[dodie20]

It is usually the father so what grounds do you have to think it is Patsy? Jealousy/rage, etc. Why? What would be her motives?

I hear an awful lot about mothers who kill their children and from what I've read, there are certain motives that show up over and over again. A case like this is different because only 1 child was killed, so I guess we can rule out freedom motives. If it was PR, maybe it was partly to get back at the father, mixed in with rage and jealousy. A lot has been made out of the bed wetting theory and a lot of people seem to think the theory is ridiculous. IDK...I can't imagine anybody going into a rage over actual bedwetting, but if the child gets up and goes crying and whining and all cranky to the mother every time, then I can see how it might cause some people to snap. Especially if the mother is exhausted and wants nothing but sleep. It would be kind of like those never ending infant days, when your child's cries yank you out of a deep sleep, night after night after night. There comes a point when you start operating in a fog. So, maybe the bedwetting didn't cause the rage, maybe it was the exhaustion. I noticed the R children had 2 beds in their rooms, so it looks like they tried to accommodate the wetting problem...get one wet, change your clothes, move to another bed. JB was still really young though and might not have been mature enough to tend to the bedwetting on her own. Her first response might have been to basically sleepwalk her way to her mother's room, crying for help. I still can't believe parents would put their young children on a separate floor-in such a big house with no working alarm and broken windows, with maybe the doors and windows locked, maybe not. moo.

 

[DeeDee249]

I suppose there is a possibility that Burke did it but I'm not even sure if it was physically possible for him to do what was done to JonBenet.

One thing I'm sure of is that whoever killed JonBenet did so out of anger/rage/jealousy. This rules out the father for me. I think he abused her which is why he agreed to cover the mess up. I just don't think he did it. Even if JonBenet cried that night and said she'd tell the world about their 'games' I don't think the first reaction would be to kill her so violently. It's more likely that the father would coax her, bribe her etc. She was a baby really.

Patsy or Burke did it out of pure jealousy/rage. I'm leaning towards Patsy.

It was absolutely physically possible for him to digitally penetrate her and bash her on the head. The parents likely did the rest. (garrote, redressing, etc). BR hit her in the face with a golf club before, which required a trip to the hospital and stitches.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I have access to this database of old articles, and I found one from a magazine called "Financial World" (oldest financial magazine in the US before it closed) about Lockheed Martin in this case. I can't provide a link to it, nor can I copy and paste the entire thing, so I thought I would just quote some interesting lines:

"Talk on Wall Street and in industry circles is that Lockheed, embarrassed by the whole affair, is anxious to ditch Access Graphics."

"Street sources say they hear from contacts within and close to Lockheed that top management considers the entire affair disruptive and feels that the sooner Access Graphics is gone, the better."

"One well-plugged-in computer industry official sees a sale of the company within the next three months, even if it must be done at a fire-sale price."

The article is from April 1997. It makes you wonder what sort of "impact" Lockheed had on this case. If they were embarrassed by the media speculating the Ramseys did it (enough to sell a $1 billion company), imagine if the case went to trial?

 

[Wildflower73]

I have access to this database of old articles, and I found one from a magazine called "Financial World" (oldest financial magazine in the US before it closed) about Lockheed Martin in this case. I can't provide a link to it, nor can I copy and paste the entire thing, so I thought I would just quote some interesting lines:

"Talk on Wall Street and in industry circles is that Lockheed, embarrassed by the whole affair, is anxious to ditch Access Graphics."

"Street sources say they hear from contacts within and close to Lockheed that top management considers the entire affair disruptive and feels that the sooner Access Graphics is gone, the better."

"One well-plugged-in computer industry official sees a sale of the company within the next three months, even if it must be done at a fire-sale price."

The article is from April 1997. It makes you wonder what sort of "impact" Lockheed had on this case. If they were embarrassed by the media speculating the Ramseys did it (enough to sell a $1 billion company), imagine if the case went to trial?

re:eileenhawkeye.
What an interesting post. Does anyone here know what eventually happened to Access Graphics? It would be interesting to know who else profited from this tragedy.

just MOO

 

[redheadedgal]

The article is from April 1997.

i found this in the daily camera archives... from the same month even lol

"They've got a real strong management team, and they've got our full support and confidence," Meder said. Paul Nisbet, aerospace analyst with Newport, R.I.-based JSA Research Inc., said Access Graphics is "one of the few growth entities within Lockheed Martin." Budget cuts by the federal government have hurt other areas of its business, Nisbet said, and because of Access Graphics' growth, it is a company that Lockheed Martin is not likely to sell.

While there have been reports that the Ramseys may sell their house in Boulder and possibly move to Atlanta, Wagner said there have been no company discussions about such a move or whether Ramsey could run Access from Atlanta. Lockheed Martin's Meder declined to discuss the issue. "We're not going to speculate on any rumors that are out there," he said.

http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1997/04/24-1.html


AG was sold later that same year: http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/nov1997/nf71105c.htm


boulder daily camera ramsey archives:
http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/headlines/
http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/index_old.html
http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/

 

[otg]

I have access to this database of old articles, and I found one from a magazine called "Financial World" (oldest financial magazine in the US before it closed) about Lockheed Martin in this case. I can't provide a link to it, nor can I copy and paste the entire thing, so I thought I would just quote some interesting lines:

(snipped for brevity)

The article is from April 1997. It makes you wonder what sort of "impact" Lockheed had on this case. If they were embarrassed by the media speculating the Ramseys did it (enough to sell a $1 billion company), imagine if the case went to trial?

Interesting... Of course, LM would deny any rumors about this before it was a done deal. But it does make one wonder about anything else they might have tried to do behind the scenes to minimize the whole thing or even keep it "under wraps".

(BTW, too bad you don't have some way of posting the whole article, but thank you for the snippets.)