Kyron's General Discussion Thread for 2012-13

[dog.gone.cute]

There's a thread "downstairs" about the one case that members would like most to be solved. For me, that case would be Kyron Horman's disappearance. I keep hoping that something - or someone - will break in the case and that we will eventually learn what happened to Kyron, who took him from Skyline school, the motive for the abduction, and whether or not Kyron is still alive or was murdered by his captor/s.

I don't keep up with the case regularly these days but read here when I hear something in the media. I'm happy to know that Websleuthers are still searching for answers to Kyron's disappearance :blowkiss:

:seeya:

BBM: Me too, Bette ... this is one case that needs to be solved !

lease:lease:lease: for Kyron and that he is found !

 

[Cherry]

http://www.katu.com/news/field-notes/Horman-divorce-case-returns-to-court-223609551.html

 

[Mollyandme]

When kyron first went missing, i was sure TMH was involved, but overtime my opinion has changed. i want kyron found and justice served just as much as everyone else in this thread, but i feel as though those of us who don't feel TMH was involved are looked at as if we don't care about Kyron on this thread. maybe i'm being overly sensitive but it's hard to post on your gut instincts when the MSM is clearly in the pocket of LE and MCSO in this case (as they are in most cases, understandably), so its hard when those of us not in the "TMH was involved camp" have differing opinions b/c we don't have links to back it up.

i'm just interested in anyone who has theories that TMH wasn't involved, what those theories are... I personally believe he was taken from the school by a man who is still unidentified. I do not think any family members were involved at all.

I think if the MFH plot had any legs she would have at least been indicted on that by now. To me, it seems like that saying " a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich" is a convenient phrase for many cases, but if this is true, then why hasn't she been indicted? The fact that the RO was dropped to a no-contact order might not be significant to some on here, but it is to me. If a judge had reason to believe that the MFH plot was credible, why drop the RO? If there was any evidence that TMH intended violence towards her husband, the RO would not have been dropped, period. you cannot argue around that, it is what it is.


FWIW, when i look at TMH, i see someone who is lost and in some sort of emotional distress (maybe depression/anxiety). honestly, who wouldn't be in that situation? regardless of if you think she is innocent or guilty, its still an emotionally difficult state to be in. i know i would need to be medicated if i was innocent (which i believe she is) but that's just me. i don't see a narcissist, imo. Also, to who posted on her hair, i know this is all relative, but it is not terribly expensive to get your roots done. Her parents probably footed the bill, it's not like she got a blow out and full blown makeup done, imo. She could have also done it herself so i think that point is moot. Respectfully, JMO.

 

[nosysw]

Mollyandme, you have always stated your opinion thoughtfully and I respect your opinions 100%. As much as so many things point me to suspect Terri, and I won't reiterate here, I would never say I am absolutely convinced. I definitely have my doubts, but we differ in that I do think Terri is narcissistic and that is actually one of the things that gives me doubt. Again, I won't elaborate because I think we've covered just about every base that we can possibly cover, and then some. I definitely do know that you care about Kyron as we all do. I think the problem comes when Kaine is accused and bashed even though it breaks TOS and it's been repeatedly stated that Kaine and Desiree are victims, per WS, and need to be treated as such (or just not discussed in that way). As long as we stay within TOS, which you certainly always do very respectfully, all opinions are welcome as they should be.

 

[ami]

When kyron first went missing, i was sure TMH was involved, but overtime my opinion has changed. i want kyron found and justice served just as much as everyone else in this thread, but i feel as though those of us who don't feel TMH was involved are looked at as if we don't care about Kyron on this thread. maybe i'm being overly sensitive but it's hard to post on your gut instincts when the MSM is clearly in the pocket of LE and MCSO in this case (as they are in most cases, understandably), so its hard when those of us not in the "TMH was involved camp" have differing opinions b/c we don't have links to back it up.

i'm just interested in anyone who has theories that TMH wasn't involved, what those theories are... I personally believe he was taken from the school by a man who is still unidentified. I do not think any family members were involved at all.

I think if the MFH plot had any legs she would have at least been indicted on that by now. To me, it seems like that saying " a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich" is a convenient phrase for many cases, but if this is true, then why hasn't she been indicted? The fact that the RO was dropped to a no-contact order might not be significant to some on here, but it is to me. If a judge had reason to believe that the MFH plot was credible, why drop the RO? If there was any evidence that TMH intended violence towards her husband, the RO would not have been dropped, period. you cannot argue around that, it is what it is.


FWIW, when i look at TMH, i see someone who is lost and in some sort of emotional distress (maybe depression/anxiety). honestly, who wouldn't be in that situation? regardless of if you think she is innocent or guilty, its still an emotionally difficult state to be in. i know i would need to be medicated if i was innocent (which i believe she is) but that's just me. i don't see a narcissist, imo. Also, to who posted on her hair, i know this is all relative, but it is not terribly expensive to get your roots done. Her parents probably footed the bill, it's not like she got a blow out and full blown makeup done, imo. She could have also done it herself so i think that point is moot. Respectfully, JMO.

I also respect your opinion. I only have a problem with people making comments about the victims in the case that directly contradicts the evidence. And even still, it's not because I don't think they care about Kyron, IMO it's a different issue entirely operating there. If there was evidence, or even a likely possibility but no "direct" evidence, then it would feel productive and beneficial to talk about it.

In your scenario, that someone else who either hasn't been checked out at all because LE doesn't know about his existence or who has been checked out but critical info overlooked - that to me wouldn't be unlikely, because it doesn't contradict the facts that we do know. Is that too many negatives? lol I mean that I can see how that scenario would fit.

After all this time, although I believe TMH knows what happened and that's why she's given up her child and freedom, a scenario in which someone else did the actual grabbing would still make sense to me. I don't rule it out in the least, and that scenario would also explain a lot of holes. However I still believe that TMH knows at least part of what happened to him.

 

[blefuscu]

There are reasons I don't believe TH. She supposedly saw Kyron go into his classroom from the stairwell. Yet it's been proven that she couldn't see the classroom door from the stairwell. She has phone pings that show her driving around just "randomly" after "supposedly" dropping Kyron off. But can't give any details of where she was going and just says she was driving to sooth her daughter's earache. She won't answer questions. She allowed Kaine to take their daughter away.

If I was Kyron's stepmom and I had nothing to hide I'd be fighting tooth and nail to prove my innocence. I'd do everything in my power to help get that little boy back. She has been as obstructive as possible since day 1!

 

[MyBelle]

Cherry, you are certainly entitled to your opinion regarding KH.

But your theory about KH picking up Kyron early and sending him to Cali makes zero sense, IMO. The State's investigation is the largest and most expansive in Oregon's history. Do you really think it's possible that Kaine's time that day is unaccounted for? What records of Terri and Desiree are you referring to? What records regarding Kaine do you wish to see?

Desiree was 3 hours away and at work (with witness'). Kaine was at work that morning when Kyron disappeared (with witness'). Terri is the only one who has a unaccounted time period that day with NO witness'. Her explanation ... she drove around trying to soothe the baby. Based on just the aforementioned, plus the fact she could not pass a LDT, are you surprised LE considers her a suspect?

Regarding the divorce. I never felt KH focused on the divorce to the exclusion of finding Kyron. IMO, it's natural he would want to remove any link to the woman who hatched a MFH plot against him and exited his son.

Sometimes you just have to side with logic, and if it quacks like a duck ... call it what it is. If Terri is cleared in the near future, I will humbly eat my hat.

BBM. The actual point in time that Kyron "disappeared" remains unknown so it is impossible to prove anyone's alibi other than Desiree because she lived and worked so far away. Have LE cleared Kaine or anyone else? I've never believed the murder for hire plot. I believe it was a LE tactic to drive a wedge and it worked.

JMO

 

[Karmady]

When kyron first went missing, i was sure TMH was involved, but overtime my opinion has changed. i want kyron found and justice served just as much as everyone else in this thread, but i feel as though those of us who don't feel TMH was involved are looked at as if we don't care about Kyron on this thread. maybe i'm being overly sensitive but it's hard to post on your gut instincts when the MSM is clearly in the pocket of LE and MCSO in this case (as they are in most cases, understandably), so its hard when those of us not in the "TMH was involved camp" have differing opinions b/c we don't have links to back it up.

i'm just interested in anyone who has theories that TMH wasn't involved, what those theories are... I personally believe he was taken from the school by a man who is still unidentified. I do not think any family members were involved at all.

I think if the MFH plot had any legs she would have at least been indicted on that by now. To me, it seems like that saying " a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich" is a convenient phrase for many cases, but if this is true, then why hasn't she been indicted? The fact that the RO was dropped to a no-contact order might not be significant to some on here, but it is to me. If a judge had reason to believe that the MFH plot was credible, why drop the RO? If there was any evidence that TMH intended violence towards her husband, the RO would not have been dropped, period. you cannot argue around that, it is what it is.


FWIW, when i look at TMH, i see someone who is lost and in some sort of emotional distress (maybe depression/anxiety). honestly, who wouldn't be in that situation? regardless of if you think she is innocent or guilty, its still an emotionally difficult state to be in. i know i would need to be medicated if i was innocent (which i believe she is) but that's just me. i don't see a narcissist, imo. Also, to who posted on her hair, i know this is all relative, but it is not terribly expensive to get your roots done. Her parents probably footed the bill, it's not like she got a blow out and full blown makeup done, imo. She could have also done it herself so i think that point is moot. Respectfully, JMO.

~bbm

Attempted hits are never, ever prosecuted without direct evidence that the person who solicited the hit did in fact solicit it and intended to pay for it. There's ALWAYS some type of recording or writing required. That's because the whole point is prosecuting a solicited a crime that never happened. You need irrefutable proof of the solicitation b/c there is no crime and no body. Similar to prosecuting prostitution. You have to get the person to specifically offer money for sex. And it has to be unambiguous, which is why most people soliciting online or in other media refer to "donations" or call themselves "escorts."

That's why LE did what they did with the landscaper. If his word were enough, they would have prosecuted. It wouldn't be, so they couldn't. They had to get her on tape essentially admitting it. They couldn't. So no prosecution. Has no bearing on whether it actually happened. And, for the same reason, has no bearing on whether there's a continuing RO. Especially given the passage of time and change in proximity, etc.

jmo

 

[Donjeta]

BBM. The actual point in time that Kyron "disappeared" remains unknown so it is impossible to prove anyone's alibi other than Desiree because she lived and worked so far away. Have LE cleared Kaine or anyone else? I've never believed the murder for hire plot. I believe it was a LE tactic to drive a wedge and it worked.

JMO

Wow, that is a huge claim imo. LE making up an untrue MFH plot and blaming it on an innocent woman as a tactic to break up a family in crisis and leading to a contentious divorce and a little child being separated from her mother would imo be on a quite unexpected level of unethical, sneaky and illegal.

 

[MyBelle]

Wow, that is a huge claim imo. LE making up an untrue MFH plot and blaming it on an innocent woman as a tactic to break up a family in crisis and leading to a contentious divorce and a little child being separated from her mother would imo be on a quite unexpected level of unethical, sneaky and illegal.

LE use such tactics including telling lies and it is legal. I don't believe LE instructed Kyron to take the child and leave or to file for divorce. I believe LE's priority has always been finding Kyron.

JMO

 

[Donjeta]

LE use such tactics including telling lies and it is legal. I don't believe LE instructed Kyron to take the child and leave or to file for divorce. I believe LE's priority has always been finding Kyron.

JMO

Can you name one case in which LE used such tactics and lied and made up accusations that someone was plotting to hire an assassin to find a missing child?

LE can lie and tell things such as "no one is a suspect, no one has been ruled out" but telling lies, "so and so is trying to murder someone" is a whole another kettle of fish. There's a subtle but important difference between telling lies and trying to frame someone for a felony. They even conducted a sting operation trying to get her to incriminate herself.

So what do you think LE would have expected Kaine to do instead when they lied to him that his wife was trying to have him murdered if not leave and file for divorce?

I agree that LE wants to find Kyron but I'm not really sure how making up lies about Terri trying to hire someone to murder her husband would help to achieve that.

 

[MyBelle]

Can you name one case in which LE used such tactics and lied and made up accusations that someone was plotting to hire an assassin to find a missing child?

LE can lie and tell things such as "no one is a suspect, no one has been ruled out" but telling lies, "so and so is trying to murder someone" is a whole another kettle of fish. There's a subtle but important difference between telling lies and trying to frame someone for a felony. They even conducted a sting operation trying to get her to incriminate herself.

So what do you think LE would have expected Kaine to do instead when they lied to him that his wife was trying to have him murdered if not leave and file for divorce?

I agree that LE wants to find Kyron but I'm not really sure how making up lies about Terri trying to hire someone to murder her husband would help to achieve that.

I apologize but I thought it was common knowledge on this forum that police are allowed to lie in investigations whether it be about having physical evidence or having a witness to a murder for hire plot.

Has anyone been arrested for the murder-for-hire plot? No. Which is why I don't believe it was ever true.

JMO

 

[Donjeta]

I apologize but I thought it was common knowledge on this forum that police are allowed to lie in investigations whether it be about having physical evidence or having a witness to a murder for hire plot.

Has anyone been arrested for the murder-for-hire plot? No. Which is why I don't believe it was ever true.

JMO

The thing is, usually they lie to the suspect when they think someone did something and want to trick them to confess. They don't tend to make up false accusations and tell them to family members and the press even though they think the person really is innocent and just made something up for the heck of it to torment a family or because they have it in for an innocent bodybuilder lady or whatever.

There are three reasons that LE may not arrest anyone for a crime:
1. LE made the crime up
2. LE has not found sufficient evidence to take it to court
3. LE has evidence but they want to wait for additional evidence in a related matter

JMO but I think 2. and 3. are easier to believe, usually.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

A big reason why so many people believe Terri is involved in Kyron's disappearence, and why Kaine filed for divorce and for sole custody, is because of the MFH plot. If LE completely made it up, I would think Terri would have a case for a major lawsuit against them, because it definitely ruined her life.

 

[MyBelle]

The thing is, usually they lie to the suspect when they think someone did something and want to trick them to confess. They don't tend to make up false accusations and tell them to family members and the press even though they think the person really is innocent and just made something up for the heck of it to torment a family or because they have it in for an innocent bodybuilder lady or whatever.

There are three reasons that LE may not arrest anyone for a crime:
1. LE made the crime up
2. LE has not found sufficient evidence to take it to court
3. LE has evidence but they want to wait for additional evidence in a related matter

JMO but I think 2. and 3. are easier to believe, usually.

LE can't arrest anyone if there was no crime. Just because a landscaper claimed Terri hired him doesn't make it true. Didn't LE wire the landscaper with the hope Terri would admit to it? Didn't LE also tell Desiree and her husband about it and they all immediately distanced themselves from Terri?

All LE ever said publicly is that they found the landscaper credible.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

A big reason why so many people believe Terri is involved in Kyron's disappearence, and why Kaine filed for divorce and for sole custody, is because of the MFH plot. If LE completely made it up, I would think Terri would have a case for a major lawsuit against them, because it definitely ruined her life.

LE said publicly that the landscaper came to them and they found him credible. I doubt there are grounds for a lawsuit against police.

JMO

 

[ami]

A big reason why so many people believe Terri is involved in Kyron's disappearence, and why Kaine filed for divorce and for sole custody, is because of the MFH plot. If LE completely made it up, I would think Terri would have a case for a major lawsuit against them, because it definitely ruined her life.

Actually the MFH doesn't even figure into my thoughts about Terri's guilt in Kyron's disappearance. The biggest reasons she looks guilty are her proximity to the child directly before he disappeared, her behavior directly after he disappeared, and her willingness to give up her own baby to avoid talking to LE about the disappearance. And IMO that's what "ruined her life".

In any case, was LE supposed to have hired an actor to play the part of the landscaper who told them about the MFH plot?

 

[Donjeta]

LE can't arrest anyone if there was no crime. Just because a landscaper claimed Terri hired him doesn't make it true. Didn't LE wire the landscaper with the hope Terri would admit to it? Didn't LE also tell Desiree and her husband about it and they all immediately distanced themselves from Terri?

All LE ever said publicly is that they found the landscaper credible.

JMO

Now I'm confused. Earlier you were saying that you believe that LE lied about the MFH plot as a strategy but now you're saying that you believe there is a witness? If there was a witness saying that Terri hired him, it doesn't mean that the MFH thing happened for sure as the witness may have been lying or mistaken but it also means that LE did not make the plot up for tactical reasons (unless they told the witness to lie?but surely LE encouraging perjury would be somewhat illegal?). If LE believed a witness who was lying it doesn't mean that LE lied, it means they were wrong.

 

[blefuscu]

If LE had made this up then Terri would have sued the *advertiser censored* of them. LE cannot just slander people with no good reason. I've never heard, in a UK or US case, of LE making such a specific, severe deceptive claim. It's one thing to say "we have evidence to show our suspect did so and so...." Quite another to NAME a suspect and state they did a specific crime!

 

[La Louve]

If LE had made this up then Terri would have sued the *advertiser censored* of them. LE cannot just slander people with no good reason. I've never heard, in a UK or US case, of LE making such a specific, severe deceptive claim. It's one thing to say "we have evidence to show our suspect did so and so...." Quite another to NAME a suspect and state they did a specific crime!

BBM TH certainly has the right attorney in Mr. Houze if she wanted to sue LE for making up the MFH plot. The fact that they haven't filed such a suit speaks volumes to me about her culpability.