GUILTY UT - Michele MacNeill, 50, found dead in bathtub, Pleasant Grove, 11 April 2007 - #6

[cubbeegirl]

...just got home and wanted to chat....no one is in chat!!

irc.serenity-irc.net
#websleuths

Let me swap to my macbook n I will go...

 

[ShadyLady]

....why was prosecution so close to MS Gypsy??? Chin on hand....leaning toward her???

 

[Bravo]

Cant believe this is almost a wrap

 

[ShadyLady]

server: irc.serenity-irc.net
room: #websleuths

For chatty Cathys and Kens....

 

[DomCasual]

I think they are too. The way she testified convinced me of that. I'm think she was involved in Michelle's death in some way. She is a bad seed.

I love how she said, "I found myself in prison for two years as a result of being with this guy, and that was terrifying to me!"

Um, dear Gypsy, you spent two years in prison because YOU participated in the process of stealing the identity from a poor teenage girl, so that you could maintain your relationship with the man whose family you helped ruin (even if you weren't complicit in her death). And even putting it that way is sterilizing it much more than you deserve! You should go back and find the pictures of the disgusting conditions that poor girl stayed in, while she was stuck in the Ukraine for almost a year. Imagine how terrifying it must have been - having no idea how the system worked, having no idea if she would EVER get back.

What a smug, despicable person Gypsy Willis is!

 

[AlwaysShocked]

Wow! Hard to believe that is all of a defense that was presented. I do NOT think the lack of a defense will bode well for MacNeill.

The circumstantial evidence in this case is strong. And there is a lot of it. While I believe that Michelle was dead and beyond help by the time neighbors or EMT performed CPR on her, the amount of water that came out of her when the EMTs performed it definitively shows that up until that time effective CPR had not been performed.

Could MM have drained the water from the tub, climbed in, positioned her flat on her back within the tub, straddled her and performed chest compressions? Of course he could have. The tub bottom was a hard surface. She did not need to be outside the tub on the floor for chest compressions to take place.

The disparate stories about the position of Michelle's body when "discovered" by MM cannot be ignored. The lividity marks on Michelle's body- buttocks and back of thighs - indicating body position cannot be ignored.

The drugs that were present in Michelle at the time of her death cannot be ignored. Based on the earlier conversation with daughter Alexis, she should NOT have had Ambien in her system at that time of day.

Beyond the above, there is his bizarre behaviors on the 911 call, in the home with the EMTs, and in the ER with the doctors and nurses there.

There is his awful and bizarre behaviors with his children. His behaviors with Gypsy both before and particularly after Michelle's death.

There are the "peripheral" witnesses - the old mistress who says he confessed to drowning his brother, the jailhouse witnesses, not one but four of them.


From jury questions I suspect someone on the jury has some medical knowledge, which if true could be helpful in explaining CPR and medication levels to other jurors.

I predict a GUILTY verdict.

 

[Sulamith]

....why was prosecution so close to MS Gypsy??? Chin on hand....leaning toward her???

IMO, to get into her space..make her uncomfortable, to hopefully, get her tripped up so she would tell the truth. :moo::moo:

 

[ShadyLady]

IMO, to get into her space..make her uncomfortable, to hopefully, get her tripped up so she would tell the truth. :moo::moo:

She acted like he was flirting
..and gave a big smile at least once...

 

[Hope4More]

IMO, to get into her space..make her uncomfortable, to hopefully, get her tripped up so she would tell the truth. :moo::moo:

Or because they accurately predicted her response would be to thrust her bosom out, simper, flutter her eyelashes and flirt on reflex like a loose floozy, revealing her true self all by herself.

 

[atthelake]

So, those of you who have watched all of Gypsy's testimony, what is your opinion? Is it really over? Or is she just saying that, for the sake of the trial?

I have not been able to watch any testimony today , only following thread. (thanks everyone ) . That being said , when I read folks posts my FIRST thought was she is positioning as she ooooozed towards Martin during initial testimony with words , body language and dress that first day . Will watch later to see what y'all saw to believe she really has moved on.

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

 

[atthelake]

...just got home and wanted to chat....no one is in chat!!

irc.serenity-irc.net
#websleuths

Hey Shady ! On a trip with friends will see you there later. Have not even watched todays testimony yet .

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

 

[ShadyLady]

Hey Shady ! On a trip with friends will see you there later. Have not even watched todays testimony yet .

Sent from my SCH-S720C using Tapatalk 2

I only caught parts...but some was snoozeville...

 

[Hope4More]

Last thought about Gypsy and MM. Think about it. She OWNS him. She knows exactly what he did. She's likely hedging her bets.. telling him in open court that she doesn't need him and is free to move on, so he'd better make it worth her while if he's released and expects her in his life.

And if he's convicted. Would you expect her to NOT have a backup plan-scam all lined up already? This the woman who hung up a picture of Michelle in her room a month after meeting MM, and who fixated on how she could get Michelle out of the way, even if meant killing her?

That ain't a sentimental lady. That's a sociopath who found her match in MM but who could just as easily find someone else to fill the void if need be.

 

[bsk]

Last thought about Gypsy and MM. Think about it. She OWNS him. She knows exactly what he did. She's likely hedging her bets.. telling him in open court that she doesn't need him and is free to move on, so he'd better make it worth her while if he's released and expects her in his life.

And if he's convicted. Would you expect her to NOT have a backup plan-scam all lined up already? This the woman who hung up a picture of Michelle in her room a month after meeting MM, and who fixated on how she could get Michelle out of the way, even if meant killing her?

That ain't a sentimental lady. That's a sociopath who found her match in MM but who could just as easily find someone else to fill the void if need be.

You absolutely nailed it as far as I'm concerned.

 

[PinkPatrice]

Some of you have asked about my experience at the MacNeill trial. Here’s a short summary. Mods feel free to erase, snip, etc. if any of this isn't allowed! Thanks!

Description of the jury. 6 males 5 females

1. Middle aged man. Kind of balding, dark hair, glasses. Very attentive and takes notes.
2. Young, cute blond female – probably in her 20’s. Your average cute Utah girl. Attentive and takes notes.
3. Young male with glasses – 20’s. Clean cut with short brown hair. Attentive and takes notes.
4. Young male – 20’s. Clean cut. Attentive most of the time. I wasn’t able to see this juror very well.
5. Young female – 20’s. Long brown hair. Has a yellow notepad and occasionally takes notes. Doesn’t seem to watch the witness or prosecution/defense when they are talking. Looks down a lot.
6. Older male – 50s. We refer to him as “hippie man”. Has longish, blond hair. Balding on top. Attentive and takes note.
7. Older Female- 50s. We refer to her as the “school teacher”. Grayish short hair. Most of the time she is leaned back in her chair, leaning to the side with her arm on armrest. Hasn’t taken many notes until that last few days and then she took quite a bit of notes. Often times she looks bored. She gives off no emotion at all. Straight faced.
8. Younger male – 20s. We refer to him as the “kid rock” juror. I also refer to him as the “Jesus juror”. Cute, with long brown hair. He likes to look at the gallery a lot. He generally looks a lot around the court room. He is attentive and takes notes.
9. Young female. 20’s – I can’t really see this juror very well.
10. Middle aged female – ’40s – 50s. Seems like the nice motherly type. Slim in stature and seems to get along well with juror #11.
11. Young male – 20s – 30s. Dark hair. I wasn’t really able to see this juror all that much either to see his reactions or if he took notes.
Nov. 7, 2013
There seemed to be a growing number of gallery members attending the trial. The first day I was there, there wasn’t that many people. More people came after the lunch break. That day we heard testimony from 2 doctors. Dr. Cragun and Dr. Perper. Important testimony but got a little long……
I thought Dr. Perper got upset at the defense attorney Randy Spencer because he kept cutting off his answers. Dr. Perper wanted to explain his answers in detail but RS only wanted a YES or NO answer. This didn’t sit well with Dr. Perper.
On this day I sat right behind Michele’s family. Her sister Linda, her niece Jill, and two other women. Linda cried a few times during the day. I can’t remember exactly when or why.
On Thursday there were a lot more people attending. Almost all were women. Maybe one or two men. Inmate #1 finished up his testimony about how Martin MacNeill told him he killed his wife and then Gypsy Willis testified. She gave off the attitude that she didn’t do anything wrong. She was so flippant in her answers. She tried so hard to not give solid YES or NO answers. “I believe so”, “I think so”, “I recall that might have happened”, “life is so lonely in jail I wanted any kind of support”. UGH! There were a few times I saw her looking over at Martin, but he never looked over to her that I saw. And the love letters! I really felt for the family in the courtroom who had to listen to her read those letters. I’m not so sure their relationship is forever over. :/
Then the defense called up their 4 witnesses. One was a co-worker who Martin called to tell he was performing a “CODE” on his wife. WHY did he call this man???? I mean, I know he wanted to show remorse and how he was trying to save his wife. But WHO takes the time to CALL people when their spouse is not breathing and they should be doing all they can to revive them?? I can understand 911….
Ada’s teacher testified she saw Martin picking up Ada that day after school. Yay.
The parole officer Tami Black testified she saw Jason Porier a total of 2 – 3 hours in a 2 year span. Judge said that wasn’t enough time to create an accurate characterization of him. Next.
Next up was Brett Besser. Ergonomics expert. He was sitting right in front of me before he took the witness stand. He seemed like a very nice person, but Pead tore him apart! Go Pead! I had the opportunity to tell Pead what an awesome job he did. He thanked me.  All I have to say is that two of my children (ages 5 and 7 ) weigh 40 lbs. and I can lift them outta the bathtub. I’m only 115 lbs. Heck, I can lift BOTH of them out of the tub if necessary. That may not be the exact same situation as Martin was faced with, but my gosh!!! Do what you have to do to get your wife OUT OF THE TUB. Even though Pead did an excellent job I still liked Kenny Rogers…er…Mr. Besser. 
That’s all I have for now. Let me know if you have any questions! 

Patrice

All remarks are my own opinion!

 

[Isabelle]

Didn't Gypsy mention while on the stand that she is currently in a relationship? Wonder what will happen if MM is found not guilty?

 

[Isabelle]

So, those of you who have watched all of Gypsy's testimony, what is your opinion? Is it really over? Or is she just saying that, for the sake of the trial?

I suspect she is being less than truthful.

 

[Ranchgirl]

Some of you have asked about my experience at the MacNeill trial. Here’s a short summary. Mods feel free to erase, snip, etc. if any of this isn't allowed! Thanks!

Description of the jury. 6 males 5 females

1. Middle aged man. Kind of balding, dark hair, glasses. Very attentive and takes notes.
2. Young, cute blond female – probably in her 20’s. Your average cute Utah girl. Attentive and takes notes.
3. Young male with glasses – 20’s. Clean cut with short brown hair. Attentive and takes notes.
4. Young male – 20’s. Clean cut. Attentive most of the time. I wasn’t able to see this juror very well.
5. Young female – 20’s. Long brown hair. Has a yellow notepad and occasionally takes notes. Doesn’t seem to watch the witness or prosecution/defense when they are talking. Looks down a lot.
6. Older male – 50s. We refer to him as “hippie man”. Has longish, blond hair. Balding on top. Attentive and takes note.
7. Older Female- 50s. We refer to her as the “school teacher”. Grayish short hair. Most of the time she is leaned back in her chair, leaning to the side with her arm on armrest. Hasn’t taken many notes until that last few days and then she took quite a bit of notes. Often times she looks bored. She gives off no emotion at all. Straight faced.
8. Younger male – 20s. We refer to him as the “kid rock” juror. I also refer to him as the “Jesus juror”. Cute, with long brown hair. He likes to look at the gallery a lot. He generally looks a lot around the court room. He is attentive and takes notes.
9. Young female. 20’s – I can’t really see this juror very well.
10. Middle aged female – ’40s – 50s. Seems like the nice motherly type. Slim in stature and seems to get along well with juror #11.
11. Young male – 20s – 30s. Dark hair. I wasn’t really able to see this juror all that much either to see his reactions or if he took notes.
Nov. 7, 2013
There seemed to be a growing number of gallery members attending the trial. The first day I was there, there wasn’t that many people. More people came after the lunch break. That day we heard testimony from 2 doctors. Dr. Cragun and Dr. Perper. Important testimony but got a little long……
I thought Dr. Perper got upset at the defense attorney Randy Spencer because he kept cutting off his answers. Dr. Perper wanted to explain his answers in detail but RS only wanted a YES or NO answer. This didn’t sit well with Dr. Perper.
On this day I sat right behind Michele’s family. Her sister Linda, her niece Jill, and two other women. Linda cried a few times during the day. I can’t remember exactly when or why.
On Thursday there were a lot more people attending. Almost all were women. Maybe one or two men. Inmate #1 finished up his testimony about how Martin MacNeill told him he killed his wife and then Gypsy Willis testified. She gave off the attitude that she didn’t do anything wrong. She was so flippant in her answers. She tried so hard to not give solid YES or NO answers. “I believe so”, “I think so”, “I recall that might have happened”, “life is so lonely in jail I wanted any kind of support”. UGH! There were a few times I saw her looking over at Martin, but he never looked over to her that I saw. And the love letters! I really felt for the family in the courtroom who had to listen to her read those letters. I’m not so sure their relationship is forever over. :/
Then the defense called up their 4 witnesses. One was a co-worker who Martin called to tell he was performing a “CODE” on his wife. WHY did he call this man???? I mean, I know he wanted to show remorse and how he was trying to save his wife. But WHO takes the time to CALL people when their spouse is not breathing and they should be doing all they can to revive them?? I can understand 911….
Ada’s teacher testified she saw Martin picking up Ada that day after school. Yay.
The parole officer Tami Black testified she saw Jason Porier a total of 2 – 3 hours in a 2 year span. Judge said that wasn’t enough time to create an accurate characterization of him. Next.
Next up was Brett Besser. Ergonomics expert. He was sitting right in front of me before he took the witness stand. He seemed like a very nice person, but Pead tore him apart! Go Pead! I had the opportunity to tell Pead what an awesome job he did. He thanked me.  All I have to say is that two of my children (ages 5 and 7 ) weigh 40 lbs. and I can lift them outta the bathtub. I’m only 115 lbs. Heck, I can lift BOTH of them out of the tub if necessary. That may not be the exact same situation as Martin was faced with, but my gosh!!! Do what you have to do to get your wife OUT OF THE TUB. Even though Pead did an excellent job I still liked Kenny Rogers…er…Mr. Besser. 
That’s all I have for now. Let me know if you have any questions! 

Patrice

All remarks are my own opinion!

Thanks, Patrice. Many great insights...appreciate letting us know the inside scoop.

 

[Isabelle]

Cant believe this is almost a wrap

How long do you think it will take the jury?

 

[Zuri]

Just an aside, MM could have cleared Michelle's airway and begun chest compressions while Michelle was in the tub. MM could have gotten in the tub and done chest compressions. The tub is a hard surface and it would have at least been some attempt while EMTs were in route. MM had no intention of assisting his wife. Zero. None. JMV