Poli-chickens, or something worse?

[BBB167893]

A small rant here: When Watergate happened, when WMD justified entry into a war, when one learns that DA AH buried the GJ True Bill and placed it in a safe, don’tcha feel lied to by those whose ambitions/fears exceeded their integrity?

Damn right, questfortrue. Just to get off-topic for a minute, I happen to subscribe to the idea that AH did bury it and mislead the public because he was, to use Don Davis's words, scared of losing the biggest case of his career. He knew his own pathetic talents weren't up to the job.

BUT, what if it was something worse than that? I'm giving the nod to my younger brother on this one. You yourself mentioned Watergate. Well, my bro occupies some of his time with conspiracy theories and such like. And he's of the mind that Nixon resigned rather than face the impeachment process because he was afraid that the investigation would uncover something even WORSE than Watergate.

One night, not too long ago, he encouraged me to see this case the same way.

SD's Brother: (Shakes his head)

SD: What?"

SDB: Guv'nor, if you were half the detective you claim to be, you'd have figured it out by now. It's all there, right in front of you.

SD: What are you talkin' about?

SDB: Isn't it obvious? You know how you're always telling me how the DA only called that *advertiser censored**in' Grand Jury because of pressure from the governor's office?

SD: Sure, I do.

SDB: And how the lady DA was dead-set against letting FOX NEWS's legal team have access to the case files?

SD: Yeah.

SDB: Well, I've been looking at this list of cases you found on the Internet, and it's right there: the reason he didn't want this case to go to trial is the same reason why he didn't want the governor's office poking around his business. He had something that he was afraid would ruin not only him, but the entire power structure of Boulder and maybe beyond.

I have to admit, it made me stop and think for a minute. His theories often do, but they always have a flaw. I love the guy, and he talks a really good game. But I've been down this road with him before. He can take a simple kidnapping and turn it into the Loch Ness monster.

So, what do you guys think? Is he about due to be right, or is it just a wild goose chase?

 

[wonderllama]

If this turns in to something about Roswell and aliens, I'm going to roll my eyes

 

[BBB167893]

If this turns in to something about Roswell and aliens, I'm going to roll my eyes

With him, there's always that chance. Even so, I'd like opinions on what he said. You have to admit, it's pretty tough to explain how anyone could be as inept as Alex Hunter and still be alive.

 

[wonderllama]

I always fall back to the 'saving face' explanation.

Sometimes the simplest reason is the correct one.

 

[otg]

With him, there's always that chance. Even so, I'd like opinions on what he said. You have to admit, it's pretty tough to explain how anyone could be as inept as Alex Hunter and still be alive.

Hanlon's razor.

Oh, wait! No! That was Mary Lacy.

 

[Blue Bottle 01]

Lacking the ability and or willingness to see human behavior for what it is people resort to conspiracy theories. IMO.

 

[BBB167893]

Lacking the ability and or willingness to see human behavior for what it is people resort to conspiracy theories. IMO.

That's how I see it. Conspiracy theories help make sense of the senseless.

 

[questfortrue]

Colorado in the ‘90s was just emerging from a recession and the hangover from loss of jobs in the energy sector. Economic Development and Job Creation (in capital letters) were the mantra of anyone in office, especially Governor R, and others in government positions – city managers, chambers of commerce, economic development organizations etc. JR and his company were big stuff in Boulder then, rapidly increasing in size and providing a number of jobs. (Boulder’s very own Fat Cat) JR had recently won a Boulder entrepreneur award, which he downplayed, but perhaps he took a lot of pride in it. He or PR must have shown it to one of his kids, because there was a heart around his photo in a brochure or magazine, and the other photos of his competitors for the award were crossed out. Seems like it would have been a huge black eye for Boulder if one of their major contributors to economic vitality were indicted for a homicide or covering up a homicide. Maybe too simple an explanation, but I do know JR became a “toxic” liability for LM. LM had a large economic contribution in Colorado as well, still does. However, maybe your bro also has some correct instinct, because there were so-o-o many overt roadblocks put up to make investigation of the case impossibly difficult. No phone records, no medical records etc. moo

 

[gramcracker]

IMO your bro's about due to be right. stranger things have happened. and, just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not coming to get you:

J. Edgar Hoover denied the existence of organized crime/the Mafia

the second Gulf of Tonkin incident

Iran-Contra

PRISM/the Patriot Act

we act as if Cuba doesn't exist yet we maintain a military/CIA prison there :waitasec:

 

[chlban]

wonderllama;9976604
I

always fall back to the 'saving face' explanation.

Sometimes the simplest reason is the correct one

Agreed. While I am in no way defending Alex Hunter, who is a disgrace, the reality is this was not a case that could have really been succesfully prosecuted, IMO. I have said it before, if they charge John, he points to Patsy. If they charge Patsy, she points to John. If they charge them both as the GJ wanted, they point to Burke who cannot be charged.

There is just too much reasonable doubt. Review this board to see my point. While most of the regulars here are firmly RDI, none of us agree on which R. So how would a jury decide?

However, in all fairness, I must confess that I was fascinated with the Kennedy Assassination for years. Read virtually every book about every new conspiracy theory. Even had a chance to visit Dealy Plaza many years ago and approached that opportunity with the excitement most people would feel about a trip to Europe. After all that, I finally had to reach the conclusion I never wanted to reach. I believe Oswald acted alone.

So, conspiracy theories are obviously not my thing.

 

[questfortrue]

I always fall back to the 'saving face' explanation.

Sometimes the simplest reason is the correct one.

Saving face works. But it doesn't quite cover the issues on kidglove handling during the investigation; imo it does not explain the lack of moxie for investigating and obtaining evidence, like phone records and, medical records. OK, there it is, lack of moxie first, then the need to save face. Add a dash of Hanlon's Razor to this recipe.

 

[Chelly]

Occam's Razor -
AH was too inept to bring the case to trial AND.....
he was in JR's pocket.

 

[BBB167893]

wonderllama;9976604
I

Agreed. While I am in no way defending Alex Hunter, who is a disgrace, the reality is this was not a case that could have really been succesfully prosecuted, IMO. I have said it before, if they charge John, he points to Patsy. If they charge Patsy, she points to John. If they charge them both as the GJ wanted, they point to Burke who cannot be charged.

There is just too much reasonable doubt. Review this board to see my point. While most of the regulars here are firmly RDI, none of us agree on which R. So how would a jury decide?

That's why it's called the cross-fingerpointing defense, chiban.

 

[DeeDee249]

If this turns in to something about Roswell and aliens, I'm going to roll my eyes

Hey- there's a lot to be said for Roswell and aliens, having had a close encounter of the 3 (and a half) kind myself.

No stranger than some of the things in this case, anyway.

 

[wonderllama]

You can't just leave that there DeeDee!

3 and a half sounds a bit.....raunchy...well, not raunchy, but not as invasive as a 4, but a bit more intimate than a 3.

 

[DeeDee249]

You can't just leave that there DeeDee!

3 and a half sounds a bit.....raunchy...well, not raunchy, but not as invasive as a 4, but a bit more intimate than a 3.

PM me- don't want to take up time on the forum for off-topic discussions.

But I will explain the 3 & 1/2.

The Air Force (which separated from the Army after Roswell in 1948) formulated four categories (there are actually more, but for the most part they use these 4 classifications for UFO sighting:
A "Close Encounter of the FIRST kind is a sighting, such as a disc, cigar shape, triangular shape, with or without lights, of a UFO or some kind of unidentified aerial phenomena (UAP)
A "Close Encounter of the SECOND kind" is physical evidence- such as debris of an unknown origin or material. Crop circles (corn rings to you Brits) are included in this. Debris from the Roswell crash is also included in this.
A "Close Encounter of the THIRD kind" is CONTACT. Not limited to mutual.
A "Close Encounter of the FOURTH kind" is abduction.
I consider mine a 3 & 1/2 because I got away! I wasn't alone and I knew what was happening- maybe that's why we was "allowed" to get away.
Although my husband thinks they probably just thought I was going to be "trouble" or too annoying. Of course, he every once in a while he tells me he thinks they actually may have gotten me and have me programmed to make his life a living hell. It's what I live for....

 

[prima.facie]

That's how I see it. Conspiracy theories help make sense of the senseless.

we live in a crazy world filled with questionable events and anomalies. we have a history of events that absolutely could be supported with a conspiracy theory. to just dismiss conspiracy theories w/out properly investigating them is not really a search for truth is it? after all, that is what we all search for, correct? one most go through a process of elimination via a list of "possibilities" and a conspiracy theory can often times be on that list.

so on the list of possibilities about the behavior of those "investigating" this case, can a conspiracy theory be eliminated from that list? or does it deserve further thought and investigation? is anyone really willing to dismiss the fact that those in authority are capable of hiding truth or corroborating with others to hide truth if they so desire? I sure hope not, because that is not a realistic view of the world we live in, IMO.

I don't think your brother is so far off in left field that he does not make valid points. whether he is right or wrong, I don't know. but I would not dismiss the theory until it can be dismissed.

 

[gramcracker]

Although my husband thinks they probably just thought I was going to be "trouble" or too annoying. Of course, he every once in a while he tells me he thinks they actually may have gotten me and have me programmed to make his life a living hell. It's what I live for....

:floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: :floorlaugh:

 

[Meara]

When so many minds have worked on this case for so long, and no one has been able to resolve it once and for all, it's reasonable to suspect that key information is missing - information beyond the details of which R did what. IOW, if the case could be solved with what is known and can be inferred, it would have been by now. Also, evidence of a cover-up - and there's plenty - confirms that there's something to be covered up.

Beyond AH's bizarre decisions, teaming up with the defense, and deep-sixing of the GJ indictments, is there possible evidence of a conspiracy at higher levels? None of it unequivocal, but yes.

- The GJ indictments remained suppressed beyond Hunter's tenure. Why?

- Steve Thomas, Linda Arndt, and Sgt. Wickman (who discovered the ransom note pad) all received harrowing threats. Steve Thomas had a mangled cat left on his front lawn, Arndt had blood splashed on her house more than once, and Wickman was shot at through his window and nearly struck. Who had motive and means to take such extreme measures which, in Wickman's case, could have been deadly?

- The couple who ran Touch Tone (was that the name?) were in the business of buying and selling confidential information. The man pretended to be JR and called McGuckin's Hardware to get Patsy's purchase receipts allegedly for the tape and cord. Did they intend to sell the information? Or, were they being paid to get the information and, if so, by who?

Are there other "Hmm" items to add to the list?

 

[WhereAreTheyNow]

wonderllama;9976604
I

Agreed. While I am in no way defending Alex Hunter, who is a disgrace, the reality is this was not a case that could have really been succesfully prosecuted, IMO. I have said it before, if they charge John, he points to Patsy. If they charge Patsy, she points to John. If they charge them both as the GJ wanted, they point to Burke who cannot be charged.

There is just too much reasonable doubt. Review this board to see my point. While most of the regulars here are firmly RDI, none of us agree on which R. So how would a jury decide?

However, in all fairness, I must confess that I was fascinated with the Kennedy Assassination for years. Read virtually every book about every new conspiracy theory. Even had a chance to visit Dealy Plaza many years ago and approached that opportunity with the excitement most people would feel about a trip to Europe. After all that, I finally had to reach the conclusion I never wanted to reach. I believe Oswald acted alone.

So, conspiracy theories are obviously not my thing.

Not to mention the DA's hand-picked, expert investigator was firmly IDI. The defense would have had a field day with that alone.