Malaysia airlines plane may have crashed 239 people on board #16

[Waddles]

I heard one of the former FBI agent say that they are really waiting to see the technology that was used to determine that how they know beyond a wild guess that the objects seen was of the plane.

America, apparently does not have such superior technology. They would have to do it the "old fashioned" way. See a grainy image on satellite, send out some boats to get it and only then could they analyze the objects to know that it was materials of the plane.

So they either have some groundbreaking technology that America has never even heard about (let alone have) OR they are likely just trying to wrap the case up (sans evidence) and move people's interest off of it.

I'll have to go with the latter for $1000, Alex.

This is a first I'm hearing this, do you have a link about them having technology that can positively identify the objects? Isn't the FBI agent confusing with the conclusions based on the satellite data?

 

[JerseyGirl]

here's a report about the US attorneys visiting the families:

Now, that wait is being increasingly punctuated by visits with lawyers, as big American law firms position themselves for potentially lucrative lawsuits. Slipping through the thicket of reporters at Beijing’s Lido Hotel Friday were representatives of at least two legal teams, for whom Flight 370 represents a major opportunity.

“This is the biggest since, I think, 2001,” said Deon Botha, global insurance claims manager for Chicago-based Ribbeck Law Chartered, which calls itself the biggest in the world in litigating air disasters. On Nov. 12, 2001, the crash of American Airlines Flight 587 into Queens, N.Y., killed 260. Flight 370 had 239 people on board.

In the week since he has arrived in Beijing from Johannesburg, Mr. Botha has spoken with roughly half the families of Chinese passengers aboard the Boeing 777.

The lawyers’ first bit of advice: Don’t sign anything offered by Malaysia Airlines and its lead insurer, Allianz. Airlines might offer $60,000 to $100,000 (U.S.) per person. Lawyers would sue for several million, Mr. Botha said.

The second bit of advice: If there’s any chance to make a legal connection to the United States, then file suit there. With Flight 370, that link might be provided by Chicago-headquartered Boeing, which made the vanished aircraft. “You can try to sue the case in Asia, but we all know American courts are more generous and supportive to the victims,” said Keke Feng, a lawyer with Motley Rice LLC, a firm based in Charleston, S.C. She flew to Beijing days after the Malaysia Airlines flight went dark.

For the lawyers, recovery of the flight’s “black box” voice and data recorders is particularly important, since the information contained there can be crucial to finding out what went wrong – and, therefore, assigning blame.

But some of the crucial information may already been deleted, since cockpit voice recorders typically keep only the most recent two hours of a flight, and Flight 370 is believed to have continued flying for as much as seven hours after diverting course. In addition, a battery-powered locator “ping” used to help searchers find a submerged black box is designed to last for 30 days; half that time has now elapsed.

For the lawyers, another time matter is also a concern. U.S. law prevents lawyers from any “unsolicited communication concerning a potential action for personal injury or wrongful death” within 45 days of an aviation accident.

But the fines are low – $1,000 per violation – and lawyers have in the past flouted it. The crash of Colgan Air Flight 3407 in Buffalo, N.Y., for example, resulted in two attorneys each paying $5,000 to settle allegations they broke the rule.

But Mr. Botha points out that the 45-day rule is “overrun” if families request to speak with lawyers, “and we’ve been contacted locally,” he said.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...s-advise-distraught-families/article17626002/

bbm

 

[Prosecution_Rests]

This is a first I'm hearing this, do you have a link about them having technology that can positively identify the objects? Isn't the FBI agent confusing with the conclusions based on the satellite data?

No Links. In order for them to come out and say that the plane is in the Ocean and the people are dead because they've seen satellite images, obviously this would mean that they have some sort of technology that allows them to draw this conclusion.

So when the agent said this, I guess he is saying that either they are making a potentially false/inaccurate statement OR they have some sort of satellite technology that has allowed them to draw conclusions that normally cannot be drawn from satellite alone.

 

[Elley Mae]

I have looked and looked, maybe it was a dream. Was it stated that other pilots in the airspace at the time were asked to try and make contact with mh370? I am still looking. So confusing with all the back peddling of info.

 

[JerseyGirl]

But the mother of a Chinese man on board the missing Malaysian airliner has defended Malaysia’s handling of relatives of the passengers.

Liu Gui Qiu denied claims she was manhandled by police amid pandemonium at Kuala Lumpur’s Sama Sama hotel where daily media briefings were held on March 19.

“That is not true. I tried to enter the room. There were several policemen. I thought they were going to grab me but they were actually helping me get out of the spot,” she said.

“At first I did not understand what was going on and so I shouted ‘help, help.’ This was when the policemen took me away from the area.”

Some international television journalists criticised police for over-reacting in the melee that was beamed around the world.

Ms Liu said she went to the briefing because she was going “crazy” and wanted to obtain first hand information about her son, Li Le, 36.

Interviewed in Kuala Lumpur on Chinese television, Ms Liu denied reports in China that Malaysia authorities were not taking care of relatives.

“The authorities treated us well, they even worried about us adapting to Malaysian food and they even took the trouble to bring us Chinese food,” she said.

“I am sure they are under a lot of pressure. I understand they are busy searching for the plane so it makes sense they are not able to pay full attention to the families.”

http://news.drive.com.au/drive/moto...-ferrari-f1-team-moves-in-20140324-35cpa.html

 

[JerseyGirl]

I have looked and looked, maybe it was a dream. Was it stated that other pilots in the airspace at the time were asked to try and make contact with mh370? I am still looking. So confusing with all the back peddling of info.

Yes, I recall that.

2:40-3:45 a.m.: Malaysia Airlines preliminary search
During this time, the airline "sourced every communication possible to (Flight 370) to locate its whereabouts before declaring that it had lost contact with the aircraft," the company told CNN. "During this period of uncertainty, Malaysia Airlines needed to establish facts by contacting other air traffic controllers and aircraft flying within the same route," the company said.

3:45 a.m.: Malaysia Airlines issues alert
Malaysia Airlines said it issued a "code red" alert that the plane was missing from radar. The airline said "code red" is when it declares that a crisis requires immediate deployment of emergency response plans. It said it took about an hour to issue the alert because it was trying to locate the plane and confirm that it was missing. To verify, it used various measures, including sending messages to the plane and awaiting a response.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/15/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-flight-370-chronology/?hpt=wo_t3

 

[Momoffourboys]

An official source told The Telegraph that investigators believe “this has been a deliberate act by someone on board who had to have had the detailed knowledge to do what was done ... Nothing is emerging that points to motive.”
Asked about the possibility of a plane malfunction or an on-board fire, the source said: “It just does not hinge together... [The investigators] have gone through processes you do to get the plane where it flew to for eight hours. They point to it being flown in a rational way.”



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...de-mission-theory-of-MH370-investigators.html

 

[cluciano63]

Since this situation (major airliner vanishing) has not occurred before...I am not sure that any country would have handled it any better than Malaysia...jmo.

 

[Waddles]

I heard one of the former FBI agent say that they are really waiting to see the technology that was used to determine that how they know beyond a wild guess that the objects seen was of the plane.

America, apparently does not have such superior technology. They would have to do it the "old fashioned" way. See a grainy image on satellite, send out some boats to get it and only then could they analyze the objects to know that it was materials of the plane.

So they either have some groundbreaking technology that America has never even heard about (let alone have) OR they are likely just trying to wrap the case up (sans evidence) and move people's interest off of it.

I'll have to go with the latter for $1000, Alex.

No Links. In order for them to come out and say that the plane is in the Ocean and the people are dead because they've seen satellite images, obviously this would mean that they have some sort of technology that allows them to draw this conclusion.

So when the agent said this, I guess he is saying that either they are making a potentially false/inaccurate statement OR they have some sort of satellite technology that has allowed them to draw conclusions that normally cannot be drawn from satellite alone.

it wasn't based on technology able to identify the objects sighted. If you go back a few pages you'll see discussion but it's based on analysis of satellite data from a British satellite company. Still, it is just based on calculations and deductions, not on objects found, if that's what you mean

 

[popsicle]

“We managed to establish contact with MH370 just after 1:30 a.m. and asked them if they have transferred into Vietnamese airspace,” the pilot reportedly told New Straits Times. “The voice on the other side could have been either Captain Zaharie (Ahmad Shah, 53,) or Fariq (Abdul Hamid, 27), but I was sure it was the co-pilot.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/201...-made-contact-with-missing-malaysian-flight/#

 

[Waddles]

Since this situation (major airliner vanishing) has not occurred before...I am not sure that any country would have handled it any better than Malaysia...jmo.

I agree absolutely

 

[Elley Mae]

Satellite data that confirmed a Malaysian jetliner missing for more than two weeks crashed in the Indian Ocean included a final electronic signal that is still being investigated, Malaysian acting Transport Minister Hishammuddin Hussein said on Tuesday. "There is evidence of a partial handshake between the aircraft and ground station at 0019 UTC (GMT)," Hishammuddin told a news conference. "At this time, this transmission is not understood and is subject to further ongoing work."

http://www.firstpost.com/world/live...being-investigated-says-malaysia-1424627.html

Think of a horn being honked in a passing car. To the driver, the sound is constant. To an observer, the sound is high pitched as the car approaches and is lower after the car passes. That's because on approach, each successive sound wave is sent from a slightly closer position to the observer. The sound waves get compressed, resulting in a higher frequency. The opposite happens as the car moves away. It's called the Doppler effect for Austrian physicist Christian Doppler, who first put forward the theory in 1842. The same effect applies to "pings" from the plane to the satellite orbiting in a fixed position, which would arrive at a higher frequency if the plane was moving toward the satellite and decrease in frequency when moving away.

 

[Prosecution_Rests]

Since this situation (major airliner vanishing) has not occurred before...I am not sure that any country would have handled it any better than Malaysia...jmo.

I respect your opinion but I totally disagree.

The plane being missing would have immediately been treated as a crime scene until information came out to prove otherwise. Every passenger on board would have been crosschecked, IMMEDIATELY and I am talking within HOURS (with the FBI/CIA).

Malaysia did the opposite of what quite a few countries would have likely done.

 

[popsicle]

Jon Ostrower ‏@jonostrower 2m
WSJ ANALYSIS: Probe Into Missing Malaysian Jet Has Created Its Own Rules http://on.wsj.com/1ix6rDy (via A. Pasztor) #MH370

https://twitter.com/jonostrower

 

[aa9511]

Re Bolded part....I agree.

I believe the lack of information is what is making the families and others mad. There seems to be a purposely hiding of information or at a minimum it is being withheld.

Surely by now they have begun a thorough investigation of the pilots and maybe others. So what have they found out and if they are never going to share then is that something that other countries will ever be able to determine.

I dont think other countries will be able to investigate these people as much as Malaysia can and if they dont share....well.....there is the reason why people are angry.

bbm

Yes, ITA. Malaysians have all of the information in their hands. For example, exactly what was in the cargo? What was the seating list of the passengers? Was anything suspicious found about the actions of the Ground Crew? And not to mention, what have they uncovered about any passengers and crew? Also, other countries (like Indonesia) will have given only Malysia information about whether their radar saw the plane or not, if they have given them that info. at all. And much more.

If I was a family member, I must admit that the knowledge that some future report will come out 2 or 3 years from now will not bring me any comfort - because how easy would it be for Malaysia to "make up" a story of how the plane went down? When only they know the evidence?

It really is a very difficult situation these families are in, not only the utmost gravity of the fact that their loved ones are dead, but the other circumstances surrounding this whole tragedy.

JMO.

 

[Prosecution_Rests]

it wasn't based on technology able to identify the objects sighted. If you go back a few pages you'll see discussion but it's based on analysis of satellite data from a British satellite company. Still, it is just based on calculations and deductions, not on objects found, if that's what you mean

That is precisely what I mean.

 

[time]

I feel sorry for Malaysia. I know this hasn't been brilliantly handled but I doubt they had the capabilities to deal with something this big, and let's just remember the language barriers between the government, the families, the search parties and the media. Lots of snippets of info have been leaked/retracted/disproven and it's been frustrating for everyone involved.

The lack of passport Interpol checks have been highlighted but this may well have been an incidental side issue and nothing to do with losing this flight. I am sure security will improve world over from now on, as will the methods of locating a downed plane in future.

Lessons have been learned, not just by Malaysia but by everyone in the industry.

Not feeling sorry for them, they have enough resources to do better... not that they have as much as we do. English is a second language there, but when I lived in Malaysia most know it and are pretty good at it ... certainly the big wigs should be able to communicate much more clearly than what I heard last night although I concluded the Airline guys were left out there high and dry perhaps. I felt it probably left the families even more upset - they want to know how this happened and what happened and the one airline spokesperson didn't seem to get that they need that for closure. The Malaysians could also provide translators for Mandarin if that is a problem... no one is going to be good at eliminating every language barrier. If you read around the opinions of Malaysians, you'll see that many also are tired of a worn out system that may not promote more quality and is too insulated, inequitable. I hope this is a wake up call for Malaysia. And, yes, I think lessons will be learned by everyone.

 

[The Village Idiot]

What objects found....and removed from the Ocean? None yet?

Ya think they would have wait to have a *confirmed piece* or proof? Sure maybe it did.....but IMHO, they should have an actual piece of it to confirm this

MOO

 

[time]

Jon Ostrower ‏@jonostrower 2m
WSJ ANALYSIS: Probe Into Missing Malaysian Jet Has Created Its Own Rules http://on.wsj.com/1ix6rDy (via A. Pasztor) #MH370

https://twitter.com/jonostrower

Good article.

 

[popsicle]

In the interviews, Inmarsat Executive Vice President Chris McLaughlin freely discussed some of the central unresolved issues of the investigation.

snip

In the U.S., Mr. McLaughlin's comments would have led to his and his company's immediate removal from any NTSB investigation, according to the board's procedures and rules. The U.K. and many other countries have similarly strict rules.

http://online.wsj.com/news/article_...4579460171057002290-lMyQjAxMTA0MDIwNTEyNDUyWj