Pacific Northwest

[gtm]

Both of your links are to FBI press releases stating that what is contained as far as dates, etc., is a timeline. The difference is that one predates the other.

Yes, they both have dates. I can find no discrepancy between the two, so I am not clear on what you a saying.

Just because there are big gaps in the Portland release does not negate the Anchorage office's timeline.If the Anchorage press release was inaccurate, it would not still be posted on their website.

 

[gtm]

Yes, I would agree that false hope is NOT what families of victims need, or should have.

I do have to note, though, that Shantina Smiley was lost, and had gone off the main roads; it was night, and she was parked in a lake area which was secluded (which Keyes would have been attracted to).

As far as killing a child goes, I am one of those who wholly believes that Keyes was connected to the Boca Mall murders, in which a seven year old girl was in fact killed.

Smiley had just secured a new job after having completed schooling; she was engaged to be married, and was a Scout master for her son's boy scout troop. Her more troubled days were behind her. Obviously, someone killed her and her boy, and I don't believe she drove the van down that dirt road and into the water.

She was last seen at a convenience store next to I-5, was described by multiple witnesses as disoriented. She bought a hot dog but left it in the store, and stumbled going to her van. Then had to go through busy downtown Tacoma to get to Fox Island when she was originally headed the other direction on I-5. I don't know what to make of that, but she was certainly vulnerable to a criminal.


Been a while since I read about it, but only thoughts on Boca Raton is: Shopping mall? Too many potential witnesses. Can't maintain control in that environment.

 

[Backwoods]

Yes, they both have dates. I can find no discrepancy between the two, so I am not clear on what you a saying.

Just because there are big gaps in the Portland release does not negate the Anchorage office's timeline.If the Anchorage press release was inaccurate, it would not still be posted on their website.

bbm: On this, we are in total agreement! (Part of the reason I am "fired up" about the IK timeline is because of recent discussions in another thread where some posters have felt the gaps in the later timeline DO negate the info in the earlier one. I guess I thought you were about to make me go down THAT same road, sorry!)

 

[Backwoods]

She was last seen at a convenience store next to I-5, was described by multiple witnesses as disoriented. She bought a hot dog but left it in the store, and stumbled going to her van. Then had to go through busy downtown Tacoma to get to Fox Island when she was originally headed the other direction on I-5. I don't know what to make of that, but she was certainly vulnerable to a criminal.


Been a while since I read about it, but only thoughts on Boca Raton is: Shopping mall? Too many potential witnesses. Can't maintain control in that environment.

I would be likely to disregard the Boca Raton cases if that suspect sketch were not (IMO) so dead-on for IK. Even if just for that reason, I can't disregard them. (On current info.)

 

[digndoodle]

Been a while since I read about it, but only thoughts on Boca Raton is: Shopping mall? Too many potential witnesses. Can't maintain control in that environment.



I think the photo comparison is just too close to disregard in the Boca Raton case, plus IK has relatives in Fla. and a childhood friend....Remember this is now over 7 yrs old and I feel this was done before he adopted the MO of parks, cemetaries, hiking trails and etc.
As I stated on the Boca Raton posts, I do feel that when Jane Doe was brave enough to give out such a good description of the person that kidnapped her and her son, Keyes saw this sketch and knew if he continued in public places he would surely be caught and perhaps that could be when he changed his whole doings and places to hunt for victims...but if this turns out to be IK, you can bet he planned on going back and killing that victim and probably her son, he told her to tell authorities he was short, black and fat...the sketch is almost as if someone sit and drawed a photo of Keyes
The way Jane Doe describes how he entered her car so quickly and without her even knowing it I feel Keyes was very much in control......I'm sure he had scouted the area out for awhile and he did choose only ladies in Dark SUV'S and ALL of them had the dark tinted windows...he was making sure no-one saw him in those cars and in my mind I think he probably had a rental vehicle very close by in the parking lot there where he ran too to take off the hat and glasses and I feel he knew he could escape quickly also when he killed the lady and her daughter, it was in the parking lot, but apparently had been un-seen all that afternoon because only when the guard made his rounds that night were they discovered
We will all have to wait on information FBI releases, but like backwoods I'm sticking to a big YES on this case due to the sketch and photo being so close, even down to the discolored area on his chin...Jane Doe even got that right

 

[SMK]

She was last seen at a convenience store next to I-5, was described by multiple witnesses as disoriented. She bought a hot dog but left it in the store, and stumbled going to her van. Then had to go through busy downtown Tacoma to get to Fox Island when she was originally headed the other direction on I-5. I don't know what to make of that, but she was certainly vulnerable to a criminal.


Been a while since I read about it, but only thoughts on Boca Raton is: Shopping mall? Too many potential witnesses. Can't maintain control in that environment.

The police sketch of the Boca mall killer matches Keyes, feature for feature: Shape of lips (which is unusual), chin, no hair on arms (description from witness). It has to be him:

 

[SMK]

Been a while since I read about it, but only thoughts on Boca Raton is: Shopping mall? Too many potential witnesses. Can't maintain control in that environment.



I think the photo comparison is just too close to disregard in the Boca Raton case, plus IK has relatives in Fla. and a childhood friend....Remember this is now over 7 yrs old and I feel this was done before he adopted the MO of parks, cemetaries, hiking trails and etc.
As I stated on the Boca Raton posts, I do feel that when Jane Doe was brave enough to give out such a good description of the person that kidnapped her and her son, Keyes saw this sketch and knew if he continued in public places he would surely be caught and perhaps that could be when he changed his whole doings and places to hunt for victims...but if this turns out to be IK, you can bet he planned on going back and killing that victim and probably her son, he told her to tell authorities he was short, black and fat...the sketch is almost as if someone sit and drawed a photo of Keyes
The way Jane Doe describes how he entered her car so quickly and without her even knowing it I feel Keyes was very much in control......I'm sure he had scouted the area out for awhile and he did choose only ladies in Dark SUV'S and ALL of them had the dark tinted windows...he was making sure no-one saw him in those cars and in my mind I think he probably had a rental vehicle very close by in the parking lot there where he ran too to take off the hat and glasses and I feel he knew he could escape quickly also when he killed the lady and her daughter, it was in the parking lot, but apparently had been un-seen all that afternoon because only when the guard made his rounds that night were they discovered
We will all have to wait on information FBI releases, but like backwoods I'm sticking to a big YES on this case due to the sketch and photo being so close, even down to the discolored area on his chin...Jane Doe even got that right

I completely agree with this.

Thank God Jane Doe and her son lived to tell the tale, both for their sakes, and for the sketch which is a dead ringer for Keyes. To discount this would be folly. I feel providence was at work when he chose Jane Doe's SUV: It was time to get the word out about him.

She must have been a very brave, and also a very observant person:

I don't have the kind of mind which notices all these facial characteristics and features, until I've known someone quite some time. I would have been too panic-stricken to notice much: My description would probably have led to some vague, generic composite sketch.

As things went, hers led to a sketch which is almost like a photo of Keyes. Also, she pointed out that although he was dark and might have been Latino, he spoke with an American accent, (Keyes does look almost Cuban) and had no body hair (Keyes' arms are totally smooth and bare). The height and build match Keyes as well.

*** Also, she got the flare to his nostrils, the shape of the chin, and the shape of the lips - unusual lips on a male - exactly, stunningly, right.

Even beneath the drawn sunglasses in the sketch, you can see that she told the artist to make his eyes tip down, which they do.(see side by side thumbnail below)

 

[Iwatchingeye]

Yes, they both have dates. I can find no discrepancy between the two, so I am not clear on what you a saying.

Just because there are big gaps in the Portland release does not negate the Anchorage office's timeline.If the Anchorage press release was inaccurate, it would not still be posted on their website.

GGE's timeline on here has merged all the info from all the press releases so far made public. It does not place him somewhere else during March 13 2010 specifically, so I think it would'nt be ruled out (just from the timeline)

December 17, 2009: Alaska Airlines flight (Anchorage, Alaska to Orlando, Florida). Went on Celebrity Cruise, visiting San Juan, St. Croix, St. Kitts, Panama, and St Johns.

December 29, 2009: Alaska Airlines flight (Orlando, Florida to Anchorage, Alaska).


12/17 - 12/29, 2009: UPDATED FBI Timeline - AK to Orlando, FL
Flew from Anchorage, AK to Orlando, FL on 12/17/2009.
No known rental vehicle.
Left Orlando on 12/29/2009.

1/11 - 2/25, 2010: FBI Timeline - Western US
FBI Timeline puts Keyes in the Western US between 1/11 - 2 /25 2010

3/1 - 10, 2010: FBI Timeline - Western US
FBI Timeline puts Keyes in the Western US between 3/1 - 3/10 2010

4/24 - 4/30, 2010: FBI Timeline - Western US
FBI Timeline puts Keyes in the Western US between 4/24 - 4/30 2010

5/19 - 7/18, 2010: FBI Timeline - Midwest & Western US

6/9/2010: Alaska
Keyes obtained an Alaska fishing license June 9, 2010.


July 7, 2010: Alaska Airlines flight (Anchorage, Alaska to Seattle, Washington).

July 7 - 9, 2010: Vehicle rental (Thrifty); 2010 Chevy Malibu, Washington license plate 6JCZ721; drove 393 miles - Seattle, Washington.

 

[SMK]

GGE's timeline on here has merged all the info from all the press releases so far made public. It does not place him somewhere else during March 13 2010 specifically, so I think it would'nt be ruled out (just from the timeline)

December 17, 2009: Alaska Airlines flight (Anchorage, Alaska to Orlando, Florida). Went on Celebrity Cruise, visiting San Juan, St. Croix, St. Kitts, Panama, and St Johns.

December 29, 2009: Alaska Airlines flight (Orlando, Florida to Anchorage, Alaska).


12/17 - 12/29, 2009: UPDATED FBI Timeline - AK to Orlando, FL
Flew from Anchorage, AK to Orlando, FL on 12/17/2009.
No known rental vehicle.
Left Orlando on 12/29/2009.

1/11 - 2/25, 2010: FBI Timeline - Western US
FBI Timeline puts Keyes in the Western US between 1/11 - 2 /25 2010

3/1 - 10, 2010: FBI Timeline - Western US
FBI Timeline puts Keyes in the Western US between 3/1 - 3/10 2010

4/24 - 4/30, 2010: FBI Timeline - Western US
FBI Timeline puts Keyes in the Western US between 4/24 - 4/30 2010

5/19 - 7/18, 2010: FBI Timeline - Midwest & Western US

6/9/2010: Alaska
Keyes obtained an Alaska fishing license June 9, 2010.


July 7, 2010: Alaska Airlines flight (Anchorage, Alaska to Seattle, Washington).

July 7 - 9, 2010: Vehicle rental (Thrifty); 2010 Chevy Malibu, Washington license plate 6JCZ721; drove 393 miles - Seattle, Washington.

OK, so they are saying he was back in Alaska on March 11?

So he could not have been in the Puget Sound area of WA state on March 13? That is just staggering, as everything else fits.

Did he always fly and rent cars under his legal name?

(ETA: OK, just noticed that you said it does not place him anywhere specifically on March 13. *thank you*)~ Also interesting: He is in the western US on 2/25, and then returns as soon as 3/1---so he could well return on the 13 or 14.
:star: :star:


ETA: I see he was in Orlando in 2009 and that seems to fit with the mall killings. (actually, I now see the mall murders were Dec 12, 2007. He had to have been there then and prior)

 

[Iwatchingeye]

There is a powerpoint slide show at this link of his travels mainly by air.
http://www.alaskapublic.org/2013/05...ts-lack-of-national-missing-persons-database/
There is a small map just below the articale headline. Clicking that should start the slide show.

GGE Detailed Timeline is here: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=220907"]Israel Keyes Timelines *NO DISCUSSION* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[SMK]

There is a powerpoint slide show at this link of his travels mainly by air.
http://www.alaskapublic.org/2013/05...ts-lack-of-national-missing-persons-database/
There is a small map just below the articale headline. Clicking that should start the slide show.

GGE Detailed Timeline is here: Israel Keyes Timelines *NO DISCUSSION* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Thank you very much for this link.

Oddly, on the video, they skip over his feb-april 2010 travels, and go straight to July of 2010.
Very odd.

 

[Iwatchingeye]

I think that would mean there wasn't any air travel during that time. It puts him in "Western United States" within the time period with no noted air travel. I wouldn't think they consider Alaska "Western United States" so it would lead me to think they have reason to think he was there but can't not verify travel means.
I think just because he didn't travel by air doesn't exclude him from traveling. He is known to drive great distances in short periods of time.

 

[SMK]

I think that would mean there wasn't any air travel during that time. It puts him in "Western United States" within the time period with no noted air travel. I wouldn't think they consider Alaska "Western United States" so it would lead me to think they have reason to think he was there but can't not verify travel means.
I think just because he didn't travel by air doesn't exclude him from traveling. He is known to drive great distances in short periods of time.

Thanks---ok, that would still leave March 13-14 (actually up until the 19th) open.

The only reason I am so intent on seeing if he can be linked to the deaths of Shantina Smiley and her son, is because it would mimic the 2007 Fla killings in many ways. And it seems odd that a random robber would kill both Smiley and her son. With Keyes, it makes sense.

They don't seem to have him in the Florida region in Dec 2007 (Boca mall killings) either. But again, he might have driven or even used a train.

But this gives one stern pause: How does this square with the Boca Mall murders of Dec 12, 2007??? Anyone have any way to match the composite sketch and murder dates with these dates of Keyes from the timeline????

December 8 - 11, 2007 : Vehicle rental (Enterprise); silver Mitsubishi Galant; drove 537 miles, did not have permission to leave state - Fort Wayne, Indiana. (original return date was December 10, 2007)

December 16, 2007: Hotel reservation (Ramada Inn) - Sequim, Washington.

 

[Backwoods]

Thank you very much for this link.

Oddly, on the video, they skip over his feb-april 2010 travels, and go straight to July of 2010.
Very odd.

That video and those maps correspond more to the timeline released in 2013 than to the 2012 one -- omitting the same dates that the 2013 one does in comparison to the 2012 one.

(That video has always made me dizzy to watch! IMO, it is not "complete", because I believe the "missing" dates are valid for IK in the lower 48, but IMO it is a convincing graphic to offer anyone who is saying, "Naw -- he couldn't have been HERE and then been THERE and then back HERE again so quickly ..." in discussions.)

 

[Backwoods]

Who will join me in considering this unidentified man about whom a thread was posted in the WS "The Unidentified" forum yesterday?

Here's the link to the thread:

WA WA - Olympia, WhtMale UP8885, 20-30, Sherwin Williams Shirt & Painters Pants, Mar'98 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community



Victim believed to be from Oklahoma; was wearing painting-related clothing; died from blunt force trauma, body was set on fire.

This would be early on for IK, but at a glance it looks possible.

ETA: The man is believed to have died in or before March 1998. IK went into the Army in July 1998. I know that he let on that he did not kill until after his Army days, but ... .

 

[SMK]

Who will join me in considering this unidentified man about whom a thread was posted in the WS "The Unidentified" forum yesterday?

Here's the link to the thread:

WA WA - Olympia, WhtMale UP8885, 20-30, Sherwin Williams Shirt & Painters Pants, Mar'98 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community



Victim believed to be from Oklahoma; was wearing painting-related clothing; died from blunt force trauma, body was set on fire.

This would be early on for IK, but at a glance it looks possible.

ETA: The man is believed to have died in or before March 1998. IK went into the Army in July 1998. I know that he let on that he did not kill until after his Army days, but ... .

I think it is indeed possible. I was just reading about Keyes: a passage from an interview in which he said he had plans to burn the Curriers, and also to take someone to a church, kill them, and then burn them and the church down.

 

[Migmuu]

I just watched the Israel Keyes special on ''Dark Minds'' and I am very, very interested in his case. I'm looking at possible victims and I found one who looks like a good potential match to the person who Keyes claims was his first victim.

Her name is Sandra Fay Emmons. Here is her NamUs profile: https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/22341/435

She disappeared from Spokane, WA on October 23, 2001. She was 51 or 52 years old. She was between 4'10 and 5'1, around 110 pounds, and had black hair and blue or hazel eyes. She is (was?) a very small and fragile-looking woman.

I can find very little information about her case. I've looked through Google, through newspaper archives etc. and I have nothing besides the information on the NamUs page. She isn't even listed on CharleyProject.

Here is why I think she's a possible victim:

1. The timeline fits. This victim was murdered between July and October 2001, and Emmons went missing in October.
2. Keyes stated he killed his victim in Washington, where Emmons lived.
3. The 492-mile distance, while large, does not rule Keyes out as he was notorious for traveling very long distances to commit his murders.
4. Emmons's disappearance apparently didn't get very much media coverage at all. Keyes stated that the victims he chose were people who, if they went missing, weren't going to get a lot of attention.

Any thoughts?

 

[bessie]

I've attached the images from Namus. There are no details about the circumstances of her disappearance.

ETA: I opened a thread for Sandra in the Missing Forum. She, or someone, did leave a note, btw. Her family doesn't seem to believe she wrote it.

Comments
SANDRA LEFT $100 AND NOTE SIGNED 'SORRY MOM'. FRIEND AND SON SAY SHE NEVER SAID 'SORRY' OR CALLED HERSELF 'MOM'. UNSURE WHO WROTE THE NOTE.

WA WA - Sandra Fay Emmons, 51, Spokane, 23 October 2001 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[Knox]

I caught the Dark Mind episodes last week. Still wonder if Keyes had anything to do with Nancy Moyer's disappearance (she has a thread here at WS).

https://www.facebook.com/missingnorthwest/posts/246213038804713
http://www.examiner.com/article/nan...se-of-washington-woman-missing-for-four-years

 

[Migmuu]

GREGORY BROWN

48 or 49-year-old man missing from WA since July 5, 2005. He is between 5'5 and 5'9, around 145 pounds, and has brown hair and blue eyes. He was last seen wearing hiking boots, a blue sweatshirt and a pair of jeans.

He apparently went missing from the trailhead on Rachel Lake Trail in Wenatchee National Forest.
His friend says that he went with Brown and Brown originally wanted to go hiking. Right as he was walking away to go hiking, he suddenly came back and said he'd changed his mind and just wanted to take a walk instead. He went for that walk and simply vanished.

I know it's more likely that Brown simply got lost in the wilderness (this is apparently a heavily-wooded area), but there are a few things that make me think he's a possible victim:

1. We know Israel Keyes was very comfortable outdoors and liked to hunt for victims on hiking trails, in national parks, etc.
2. Keyes admitted to killing two victims in separate incidents in the summer or fall months of 2005 and/or 2006. Brown went missing in July 2005.
3. The 260-mile distance between Neah Bay and Rachel Lake Trail is not too far off.
4. Keyes said he dumped the body of one victim in Crescent Lake. That lake is only 73.5 miles (about 1 hour and 45 minutes away) from where Brown disappeared. Even if he didn't use Crescent Lake in this case, there are several other nearby lakes that Keyes could have dumped the body into.