GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam County, 2 May 2014 - # 4

[Idreamofgenie]

I am curious to know if LE only interviewed the GW residents. Why not other contiguous neighborhoods, or especially ones around the lake that have a view of the Dermond's cove?

Also, regarding the matter of the head- maybe someone has a room in their house that is off-limits to the spouse/rest of the family. You could hide weapons, body parts, and other evidence that the family is unaware of. Maybe even the crimes were committed there, especially if the rest of the family were out of town.

JMO

 

[Nuvolari]

http://www.msgr.com/news/local_news/article_780fad32-e12c-11e3-911e-001a4bcf887a.html

Very interesting articles.

Mrs. Dermond had mobility issues and had driven away from a gas station and forgot to pay? Normally you can't do that if using a credit card, and that means walking into the store to pay with either cash or credit. Most of us would say that's the hard way to do it.

Her bridge club driver arrives to pick her up for bridge on the 6th and finds the place crawling with cops, goes on to the bridge club not wanting to be late, and then finds out what was going on that night at about nine? I wonder what she told the bridge club?

If Mrs. Dermond had mobility issues how could she keep a 3500 square foot house immaculate? And what about the yard? I can't imagine. And I don't think I believe it either. It would be so much work for a single person, especially one with mobility issues.

http://www.wsbtv.com/videos/news/dnr-teams-search-lake-near-putnam-county-couples/vCZrQq/

Viewing this video, I expanded it to the maximum so I could pause and look at things a little better. I wasn't aware of the effect of the boat dock cover on any viewpoint at the mouth of the cove. And the walkway up to the house is very steep. I think it's the best video I've seen for offering perspective.

http://www.topoquest.com/map.php?la...27&zoom=2&map=auto&coord=d&mode=zoomin&size=m

You may notice that the property, located right in the center of the view just to the left of the "toenail" shaped landform, is at a point where the Oconee River main channel runs at the very edge of the shoreline. The depth of the main channel is at about 390 feet elevation while the lake level is maintained at 435 feet, meaning the water depth within 500 feet of the Dermond boat dock is about 45 feet. Waterflow in lakes and rivers is almost completely stopped at the bottom and closest to shore, and the fastest flow is somewhere nearer the center and the top of the body. The distance from the deepest point at the mouth of the cove to Riley Shoals is almost 8 miles in the main channel with its twists and turns. A corpse with a weight attached would take longer to rise to the surface. Is it possible...?

Any person with a boat is more likely to be of means than a wandering psychopath.

Which door is the "front door"? Is the normal route from the garage to the house through an entry door between? I wish for a view of the rear/garage side of the house.

 

[Xara]

http://www.jamaicaobserver.com/news/Severed-head-found_9346046

I'm not saying this is related in any way. I just found it interesting that the heads were taken, 1 was disposed of in water, and it was found floating.

 

[Treelights]

http://www.msgr.com/news/local_news/article_780fad32-e12c-11e3-911e-001a4bcf887a.html

Very interesting articles.

Mrs. Dermond had mobility issues and had driven away from a gas station and forgot to pay? Normally you can't do that if using a credit card, and that means walking into the store to pay with either cash or credit. Most of us would say that's the hard way to do it.

Her bridge club driver arrives to pick her up for bridge on the 6th and finds the place crawling with cops, goes on to the bridge club not wanting to be late, and then finds out what was going on that night at about nine? I wonder what she told the bridge club?

If Mrs. Dermond had mobility issues how could she keep a 3500 square foot house immaculate? And what about the yard? I can't imagine. And I don't think I believe it either. It would be so much work for a single person, especially one with mobility issues.

http://www.wsbtv.com/videos/news/dnr-teams-search-lake-near-putnam-county-couples/vCZrQq/

Viewing this video, I expanded it to the maximum so I could pause and look at things a little better. I wasn't aware of the effect of the boat dock cover on any viewpoint at the mouth of the cove. And the walkway up to the house is very steep. I think it's the best video I've seen for offering perspective.

http://www.topoquest.com/map.php?la...27&zoom=2&map=auto&coord=d&mode=zoomin&size=m

You may notice that the property, located right in the center of the view just to the left of the "toenail" shaped landform, is at a point where the Oconee River main channel runs at the very edge of the shoreline. The depth of the main channel is at about 390 feet elevation while the lake level is maintained at 435 feet, meaning the water depth within 500 feet of the Dermond boat dock is about 45 feet. Waterflow in lakes and rivers is almost completely stopped at the bottom and closest to shore, and the fastest flow is somewhere nearer the center and the top of the body. The distance from the deepest point at the mouth of the cove to Riley Shoals is almost 8 miles in the main channel with its twists and turns. A corpse with a weight attached would take longer to rise to the surface. Is it possible...?

Any person with a boat is more likely to be of means than a wandering psychopath.

Which door is the "front door"? Is the normal route from the garage to the house through an entry door between? I wish for a view of the rear/garage side of the house.

I wanted to add that the gas station employees called the police, and "they" (I am assuming "they" are the police), called Russell and Russell told them where Shirley could be found, and her car was parked at the Hut. This incident that the bridge players recalled believe it happened before the remodeling of the Hut in 2008.
This was when Shirley drove herself to play bridge. I wonder if Shirley carried a cell phone then?
In the article, it also mentions that Shirley was driven to the Tuesday club gatherings at The Plaza.
Originally, early in the thread, I thought perhaps Shirley was not kidnapped from her home, but kidnapped elsewhere, then when I read that her cellphone, purse, and keys were found at home, I decided that with those being found at home that she would have taken those items or some of those items with her, had she had been elsewhere. Well, reading the link about her forgetting to pay for the gas and Russell speaking to the police about where they could find her, I do wonder if Shirley had a cellphone then, as in did Russell call her that the police were on the way, or she had no inkling until the police arrived.
If she had a cellphone then, but chose not to take it with her, then how would it be known for sure that Shirley was kidnapped from her own home now?
Perhaps she went somewhere with someone, leaving the cellphone, keys, and purse behind, because maybe Russell was home at the time so she would be able to get back in the house?
IMOO.

 

[Treelights]

Not much to add at this point. I am simply taking in everything that everyone is posting. No idea is beyond a possibility, if only a slight one.

The thing I can do today is pray. Headed to church. Praying for a resolution to this case, that is very heartbreaking and disturbing. As always, praying for justice for the victims....

I understand what you mean! I have been reading much more than responding as of late, as I don't have much to add to the thread.
And I agree, praying for a resolution and justice for the victims.

 

[Cardinal47]

I don't have a link...sorry but I believe I read way far up thread that Shirley Dermond, an avid bridge player, posted on the bulletin board at the club she was available as a duplicate bridge card player in any games.

Soooo if somebody called her and asked her to play would she tell them yes she would play but would need a ride???

I can see somebody bad wishing to gain access to the Dermonds doing that.

I am sure Mr. Dermond would accompany his wife to the car of a stranger picking her up for bridge.

The mind wanders.

 

[Hickory Born]

http://www.msgr.com/news/local_news/article_780fad32-e12c-11e3-911e-001a4bcf887a.html

Very interesting articles.

Mrs. Dermond had mobility issues and had driven away from a gas station and forgot to pay? Normally you can't do that if using a credit card, and that means walking into the store to pay with either cash or credit. Most of us would say that's the hard way to do it.

Her bridge club driver arrives to pick her up for bridge on the 6th and finds the place crawling with cops, goes on to the bridge club not wanting to be late, and then finds out what was going on that night at about nine? I wonder what she told the bridge club?

If Mrs. Dermond had mobility issues how could she keep a 3500 square foot house immaculate? And what about the yard? I can't imagine. And I don't think I believe it either. It would be so much work for a single person, especially one with mobility issues.

http://www.wsbtv.com/videos/news/dnr-teams-search-lake-near-putnam-county-couples/vCZrQq/

Viewing this video, I expanded it to the maximum so I could pause and look at things a little better. I wasn't aware of the effect of the boat dock cover on any viewpoint at the mouth of the cove. And the walkway up to the house is very steep. I think it's the best video I've seen for offering perspective.

http://www.topoquest.com/map.php?la...27&zoom=2&map=auto&coord=d&mode=zoomin&size=m

You may notice that the property, located right in the center of the view just to the left of the "toenail" shaped landform, is at a point where the Oconee River main channel runs at the very edge of the shoreline. The depth of the main channel is at about 390 feet elevation while the lake level is maintained at 435 feet, meaning the water depth within 500 feet of the Dermond boat dock is about 45 feet. Waterflow in lakes and rivers is almost completely stopped at the bottom and closest to shore, and the fastest flow is somewhere nearer the center and the top of the body. The distance from the deepest point at the mouth of the cove to Riley Shoals is almost 8 miles in the main channel with its twists and turns. A corpse with a weight attached would take longer to rise to the surface. Is it possible...?

Any person with a boat is more likely to be of means than a wandering psychopath.

Which door is the "front door"? Is the normal route from the garage to the house through an entry door between? I wish for a view of the rear/garage side of the house.

Thank you so much for this info...almost confirms that Sills was talking directly to the killer when he said the part about an immaculate house like nobody lived there...in other words, you dumb*** killers we know you cleaned the house!

This makes me question how long the killer/killers were inside the house. What happened to the bloody towels or paper towels used with the clean up? Are there fingerprints on the cleaning product bottles or mop handle?

If she were having mobility problems and Mr. D had a knee replacement, my guess is they were not walking down that hill to sit at the dock.

Wonder if the instrument could have been a fireplace tool?

According to the sketch on the tax assessor site, the garage is on the side of the house that would be the driveway/culdesac (sp). On the left side of the sketch there is an open porch which I think is what one would call the front (entry) to the house.

 

[Rhyolite]

I was just watching one of those dramatic reenactment true crime shows today. I won't mention which one.

It was a case in Tazmania. Apparently the time of death was narrowed down to the minute from data contained in the victims pace maker. Given the age of the victims, one or both may have had a pacemaker. Both my parent's (in their 90's) have pacemakers, so I imagine it is common. The key is that the data is in memory that is volatile, so investigators need to down load this (at the cardiologists office) right away.

 

[Curious-Cat]

A few things dawned on me this a.m. as I'm cleaning my lanai. My screen enclosure. The Dermonds had a HUGE 2 story one. I am certain he needed regular maintenance on that especially with all the surrounding trees. I wonder, do most of the homes in there have screen enclosures?

Also, I'll have my gutters cleaned at the same time.

Once when my screen cleaner stopped by, she brought some friends to help. Times were hard and they were unemployed. One of the helpers said to me, "You have mold inside all your windows." He'd obviously been looking for more ways to make money. Fine. But what better way to scope out a house. I let two of them in the house to get something to drink. It only dawned on me while they were in my kitchen that this had been very unwise on my part.

We no longer use this particular person nor does anyone else in our neighborhoo.

She used to be on some resident's permanent lists which means she could get through the gate my giving the guard the resident's name and she would be let through. But instead of going to that home, she'd go to other homes looking for work. The residents and guards finally got wind of this and she's been banned from our particular neighborhood.

I had hired a new lawn guy once but forgot to tell the front gate so one day he showed up and I asked how he got in and he said he used the name of another customer in the community. That's something I thought of when this first happened -- lots of ways to get around security. Had the Dermonds recently switched some type of service? Small things can set some people off. Maybe if there were complaints to the other neighbors/customers.

Also, I was curious to see what others think about this case so I summarized it to a friend who instantly said it sounded like someone was enraged about something -- which many of us have thought. My husband's first reaction was a business deal gone bad, but I explained that Mr. D was retired. I mentioned that his son (who lives near us here in Jacksonville, Fl) has taken over some of the franchises. His eyebrows raised -- whatever that means.

 

[Rhyolite]

After reading most of the posts in this thread, I feel the need to state my opinion. I am hoping that LE is well on its way to an arrest for this horrendous crime. I can't imagine the type of monster and coward who could commit this atrocity.

I am a believer of Occam's Razor. Simply put, it is a philosophy that the simplest, obvious, and least complicated, explanation for a mystery, is the most probable. Having said this, I believe that someone close to the Dermonds was responsible. Also, this person or persons had something to gain (probably financial). I do like the theory that it could have been someone who tried to con them, and they were outed. But still the perpetrator(s) were known to the victims. Most crimes are committed by those known to the victim.

We all have our own opinions, but I think we all want justice for the Dermonds. :twocents:

IMHO

I agree with you 100% regarding the Occam's Razor.

There is scant physical evidence in this bizarre case. It seems easy to let the imagination go wild and suppose all kinds of possible motives. But clearly, no motive has surfaced. The list of suspects is huge or non-existent depending upon the imagination.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Feel better soon OBE! I, myself, did not feel so good yesterday. I think it's the pollen and whatever else is floating around in the air doesn't jive with my sinuses!

I agree with everything in your post. The only thing I get hung up on is I think maybe the confrontation happened in the front of the house. Then after the Dermonds were under control or dead everything else happened in the boat. Why they would return Mr. Dermond's body is a mystery, or
perhaps, as others have suggested they wanted to leave a very strong message with Mr. Dermond's headless body? It's a mystery. I hope when they find out who did this our questions will be answered and the who, why, what, when and where will fall into place.

:therethere: Take care of yourself. I think cases like this take a toll on all of us. We're only human and it's frustrating when something awful like this happens that is beyond anybody's control. Try :read: a good book and sipping some hot tea, even a warm bubble :bath: with your favorite :rubberducky: and slip a favorite CD :flashback:. Or better yet opcorn: and put on a good comedy "What about Bob", "Meet the Parents", Planes, Trains and Automobiles", "Groundhog Day". If you need something stronger, I'm with you on that too. :toastred: In fact, I feel safe in saying we all want you to feel better :grouphug: I think it will be Tuesday before Sheriff Sills gives us any more updates. But hoping something breaks between now and then too.

Aww, thanks for the sweet well wishes. You are a doll to think of me.

I have had bad medication side affects and also an allergic reaction to the meds/contrast dye they had to inject into my spine this past Friday. I am sure I will be feeling better as soon as the terrible pain subsides some.:floorlaugh: I have to go through this every time I have had them done. But anyway, I am improving.

Yes, I certainly hope Sills is just trying to pretend he is stumped, but really does have an idea.. plus supporting evidence directing him to who the killer may be.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I agree with you 100% regarding the Occam's Razor.

There is scant physical evidence in this bizarre case. It seems easy to let the imagination go wild and suppose all kinds of possible motives. But clearly, no motive has surfaced. The list of suspects is huge or non-existent depending upon the imagination.

I have even wondered if the day they were murdered may hold a clue. Just for argument sake lets say someone they knew in their community talked them into investing in something but it was all a scam.

Usually when it seems to fall apart... like Ponzi schemes or bogus stocks..etc. is when the scammer cant juggle the books anymore to come up with the money to pay the 'faux' dividend check to the investor.

So what if they were due a large dividend check on May 1st and the scammer has now run out of money to keep up the scam. These high rolling scammers are often very educated themselves and put on the appearance of being highly successful and wealthy themselves. Meaning they would fit right in with the Dermonds inner circle at GW.

So they are waiting for the check.........funds he knows he can't cover so he misses the May 1st payment but then calls them or comes to the home the next day late in the evening while they are sitting outside in the back of their home on the patio, or back porch if they have one.

So to protect his secret he has to eliminate both of them.

I have read so many cases where people murdered to protect a secret they had. I have seen wives murder husbands so they wouldn't find out about them running up $$$$$$ in credit cards and other debt behind their back.

Mary Winkler murdered her husband because he was expected to meet with the security officers at the bank two hours after she murdered him. What he didn't know is his wife had been running a check kiting scheme behind his back........he never knew it either...he was dead before the meeting could be held.

It is intriguing to me when Sills says 'or attempting to financially gain' as if to imply he thinks someone was trying to rip them off for their own personal financial gain.

Then he throws in 'self preservation' and that is where protecting the secret comes in, imo. Whoever this is will do anything at all cost not to be exposed and have his secret out in the open, imo.

Just things I have thought about.

IMO

 

[Hickory Born]

I have even wondered if the day they were murdered may hold a clue. Just for argument sake lets say someone they knew in their community talked them into investing in something but it was all a scam.

Usually when it seems to fall apart... like Ponzi schemes or bogus stocks..etc. is when the scammer cant juggle the books anymore to come up with the money to pay the 'faux' dividend check to the investor.

So what if they were due a large dividend check on May 1st and the scammer has now run out of money to keep up the scam. These high rolling scammers are often very educated themselves and put on the appearance of being highly successful and wealthy themselves. Meaning they would fit right in with the Dermonds inner circle at GW.

So they are waiting for the check.........funds he knows he can't cover so he misses the May 1st payment but then calls them or comes to the home the next day late in the evening while they are sitting outside in the back of their home on the patio, or back porch if they have one.

So to protect his secret he has to eliminate both of them.

I have read so many cases where people murdered to protect a secret they had. I have seen wives murder husbands so they wouldn't find out about them running up $$$$$$ in credit cards and other debt behind their back.

Mary Winkler murdered her husband because he was expected to meet with the security officers at the bank two hours after she murdered him. What he didn't know is his wife had been running a check kiting scheme behind his back........he never knew it either...he was dead before the meeting could be held.

It is intriguing to me when Sills says 'or attempting to financially gain' as if to imply he thinks someone was trying to rip them off for their own personal financial gain.

Then he throws in 'self preservation' and that is where protecting the secret comes in, imo. Whoever this is will do anything at all cost not to be exposed and have his secret out in the open, imo.

Just things I have thought about.

IMO

If this theory is true, I would guess more investors might be in danger.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

If this theory is true, I would guess more investors might be in danger.

Hi Hickory. I hope you have enjoyed the long holiday weekend.

Its just a theory of course.

But when Sills did say he thought someone was attempting to financially gain from them then what else could it be other than trying to bilk money out of them in some way?

Its just that I have read about so many scams and their main target seems to be the elderly. These aren't scammers that do it over the phone. Since my hubby and I are in our 60s now the scam calls have picked way up. Of course I never answer the phone if I don't recognize the number.

But anyway they do it face to face and a very convincing. Pretending to be 'one of them.' That is why scams make billions a year off of good people who trusted the scammer. They are very very good at what they do. They appear to be highly successful with an affluent lifestyle. There have always been crooks who are trying to get someone else's money they didn't work for. Its smooth sailing until they get caught and then they can end up like Bernie Madoff.

Just thinking........nothing more. lol

IMO

 

[Nuvolari]

Prior post removed by Nuvolari because of likely irrelevancy, unless the coming "big clue" links to the observation.

 

[tlcya]

Danger, Will Robinson! - YouTube

runs doesn't walk

 

[1&2&3]

Today, my brain seems to have taken a break! Where are the GW security cameras that were not working at the time of these murders? Are they at the entrance only where the guards are? Are the cameras located throughout the roads in GW?

The reason for this question is if the perps access was by boat, why would it matter if the cameras were down?

 

[1&2&3]

Someone the Dermonds knew....someone they would just open the door for. Someone considered close to them.
Someone who had something financially to gain but didn't even bother to take the time to gather the valuables at that moment....
because they knew they would receive them later?

Yep! That narrows it down don't you think?

 

[Suthrnqt]

Danger, Will Robinson! - YouTube

runs doesn't walk

runs with.
atience grasshoppers!!

 

[Bootsctr]

runs with. atience grasshoppers!!

Just think maybe the press is waiting on us here to say something and then they will print it up. . . Seems like some articles written popped up later in the press after being discussed here...

It seems to me that Mrs. Dermond was a lot more frail than my initial first impression. This case is starting to remind me of Mr. Bob Harrod's story except he hasn't been found.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=10571010&highlight=harrod#post10571010