GUILTY WI - 12-Year-Old Girls Stab Friend 19 Times for Slenderman, Waukesha, 31 May 2014 #1

[Nasteria]

There is nothing in either of these girls statements which indicates any sense of remorse for their actions.

They planned this for months. The created code words to keep from anyone becoming concerned. Either one of them could have stopped this. Told an adult, warned the victim.... They chose not to.

It might? be wrong. They knew it was wrong all along or they would not have any need to create code words.


Waaaaay upthread, sorry it's moving too fast to read all of it, one of the MSM articles has some legal questions/info from a WI prosecutor not related to this case - who deals with minors. He believed the girls statements to police after they waived their Miranda rights would hold up in court as WI law allows 12 yr olds to waive their Miranda rights without their parents present.

I'm curious about any earlier signs of their inability to distinguish between reality and fantasy. They didn't just one day decide to believe in make-believe.

precisely

 

[HMSHood]

This article is from today's NY Post: Girl stabbed in 'Slender Man' attack leaves hospital.

http://nypost.com/2014/06/07/girl-stabbed-in-slender-man-attack-leaves-hospital/

"she miraculously survived"

It is a miracle. Even more surprising she left the hospital within a few days.

 

[tresptip]

They may have been "pretending" that Slenderman was real while playing but they knew he wasn't. I remember pretending a lot of things when I was a kid but I knew they weren't real.I think the most dangerous thing a friend and I pretended to be when we were little kids were drug addicts.We pretended to be on dope (even though we weren't).Her parents had a box of needles (her mother was a diabetic),and we gave each other shots of saline salution in the arm actually trying to find the vein when doing this.We had no idea how dangerously close we may have came to killing each other.
I'm pretty sure these two girls knew that stabbing their friend 19 times would most likely kill her .

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

They may have been "pretending" that Slenderman was real while playing but they knew he wasn't. I remember pretending a lot of things when I was a kid but I knew they weren't real.I think the most dangerous thing a friend and I pretended to be when we were little kids were drug addicts.We pretended to be on dope (even though we weren't).Her parents had a box of needles (her mother was a diabetic),and we gave each other shots of saline salution in the arm actually trying to find the vein when doing this.We had no idea how dangerously close we may have came to killing each other.
I'm pretty sure these two girls knew that stabbing their friend 19 times would most likely kill her .

BBM and that is what bothers me. They are still kids and acting like kids while acting out and adult crime. But basically still kids.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Either way they planned to kill her and nearly did, so it makes little difference to the charges etc. My way of thinking in regards to all this is that if it's found that they truly believed it, then that speaks to their maturity and will effect whatever treatment they receive. It should all be quite evident from whatever is on their computers. Basically I think if it is found that they truly believed the Slenderman mythos and were immersed in some kind of fantasy, then that should bolster their lawyers chances in getting this moved into juvenile court. Also if others online encouraged them, then if they can't have the bejesus scared out of them with charges, then exposing those online comments may be educational to other kids / parents.

 

[huckleberryhound]

The true story behind the movie Heavenly Creatures has a lot of similarities to this crime , especially that the girls were immersed in a fantasy world and then acted together to kill someone. So, I was interested in what became of those girls 60 years later. Apparently they were both released after only 5 years, on the condition they never speak to each other again, they both left New Zealand, and apparently have never committed another crime since then. Surprisingly, one of them went on to become a well-known author.

 

[Cubby]

Two really great points!

I'm in the "their using slender as a cover" camp.

and while I'm firm that these girl should be put into a long term punishment/rehab situation

seeing younger picture of the girls (mostly MG, nothing much on AW out there) ...seeing that is really crushing my heart.

My heart is crushing all around. There are no winners in this case. As a parent of an almost 12 year old, I can't begin to imagine. So many dreams lost. A whole life time of dreams lost..............

and the victim. I pray she has support, more support than we can imagine. I pray her emotional wounds are not worse than her physical wounds.

Fantasy, creative imagination is usually great..... but of the ways to express it. Heartbreaking.

 

[Cubby]

. Also if others online encouraged them, then if they can't have the bejesus scared out of them with charges, then exposing those online comments may be educational to other kids / parents.

RSBM. Encouraged them how? Thus far (and I have not read every post in this thread) I have not seen anything to indicate these two perps were encouraged to commit this act.


Have we seen any MSM on how these two interacted online regarding slender? Did they engage in these fantasies with an online crowd or was it just the two perps fantastizing together?

 

[popsicle]

I am not "pro" life sentences for kids of twelve...but on the other hand, I do believe some people are just evil, even as children and will only get worse. It does not sound as though these two qualify, but if anything about animal abuse comes out...I prefer they are locked away before they move on to humans. I am a firm believer in people who torture animals are as low as those who torture children...jmo.

BBM I haven't heard anything about animals. There is a good chance they started out with humans... a child. jmo

 

[Mrs G Norris]

RSBM. Encouraged them how? Thus far (and I have not read every post in this thread) I have not seen anything to indicate these two perps were encouraged to commit this act.


Have we seen any MSM on how these two interacted online regarding slender? Did they engage in these fantasies with an online crowd or was it just the two perps fantastizing together?

We haven't seen any MSM no .. in their statements to police the girls said they were proving the Slender skeptics wrong and attempting to prove he really does exist by becoming proxies, the debate between believers and non believers of Slenderman is part of the online community.

 

[blue22]

We haven't seen any MSM no .. in their statements to police the girls said they were proving the Slender skeptics wrong and attempting to prove he really does exist by becoming proxies, the debate between believers and non believers of Slenderman is part of the online community.

That's the thing. No one actually thinks he is real. Apparently, they want to prove the whole population that read that stuff wrong?

I don't buy it. I think it's an excuse. JMO

 

[JeannaT]

That's the thing. No one actually thinks he is real. Apparently, they want to prove the whole population that read that stuff wrong?

I don't buy it. I think it's an excuse. JMO

It seems believable to me. They seem to be brutally and completely honest about all their actions even their thoughts of wanting her to die.

 

[blue22]

It seems believable to me. They seem to be brutally and completely honest about all their actions even their thoughts of wanting her to die.

When I read their statement, I read a very well thought and rehearsed confession. Especially, from one of the girls. I do think both knew exactly what they would say. I don't think it was "brutally honest." I think some parts were the truth, but there was nothing brutal about their confession. To me, they clearly rehearsed.

Since the beginning of time, people have killed in the name of things. I really think it will come out, that it was a convenient and really well planned guise. I would seriously love to be wrong, though.

 

[Cubby]

We haven't seen any MSM no .. in their statements to police the girls said they were proving the Slender skeptics wrong and attempting to prove he really does exist by becoming proxies, the debate between believers and non believers of Slenderman is part of the online community.

Thank you. I wasn't sure if there was something I missed that indicated there was someone who came forward and said they were debating, but didn't think these girls were serious about believing in slenderman.


My experience with slenderman, as a parent, is watching a well known youtube gamer scare himself playing the online game. (his animation playing was hilarious) . The kiddo was scared right along with gamer.

There is a fairly lengthy video out there where teens act out something with murder depicted. Though in this case the teens are trying to stop slenderman, or catch slenderman and become his victims. Not try to kill for him.

Currently, I'm listening to arguments over who is better, Spiderman or Superman. That's what I hear my kiddo debate while playing online. The slenderman phase wore off pretty quickly with my kiddo.

 

[tresptip]

What put the icing on the cake for me was when MG said "People that trust you are very gullible." To me what she is REALLY saying is "People that trust ME are very gullible."

 

[x_files]

What put the icing on the cake for me was when MG said "People that trust you are very gullible." To me what she is REALLY saying is "People that trust ME are very gullible."

I would NEVER trust this person ever again. Hopefully no one will.

 

[popsicle]

What put the icing on the cake for me was when MG said "People that trust you are very gullible." To me what she is REALLY saying is "People that trust ME are very gullible."

And she was very stupid to trust me.

 

[Ausgirl]

There could be an element of 'tough talk' going on though. It's how some kids respond to pressure.

Example - and I do *not* mean to kick off a discussion of the case here - Damien Echols under arrest and in court, he did *nothing* to help himself at all the way he carried on. He was clearly trying to use defenses that worked against other teenagers, but in the adult world his actions translated as something else entirely.

Cubby, to give you an idea of why the notion they could have been influenced makes a deal of sense is that the Slenderman websites discourage talk of him not being real, there's also an element in the various Slenderman sites that likes to talk as if they *are* him and say some pretty horrible things. Plus, the whole concept found its legs in 4chan, which is actually a great site but also full of internet trolls. It's a recipe for some smartarse kid telling a couple of gullible 12's that it's all real and for a joke, telling them 'how to' become proxies.

I can see it, I really can.

I'm not sold on it though, I'm sort of swinging between A/impressionable kids influenced by troll, B/delusional kid + friend, and C/Slendy's an excuse and it was all about jealousy.

Any of these are plausible in my mind. I think the psych evals and police examination of their computers might turn up information that swings it one way or another.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I'm don't see the two as mutually exclusive, clearly these kids had major problems, MAJOR .. and you have to have a great deal of hostility towards someone to stab them 19 times, I see the Slenderman (poss belief) as a sort of conduit for this hostility, a sort of excuse as it were, they may have known consciously they were using the fantasy of the Slenderman mythos to 'allow' them to stab their friend without owning their own feelings of hostility towards her. They may have found a lot of online support for this, OR they may have actually believed it, if they did that points to another whole level of mental issues .. This is why it would be important for a therapist to get to the nitty gritty of all of this, including a review of their online communications.

 

[Salem]

This applies to the entire state. If you call 9-1-1 for police about a mentally disturbed child, they will give you this number:

Youth with mental illness can become very angry,sad,or even suicidal.
It is important to plan what to do in an emergency. Make sure emer-
gency phone numbers are easily accessible.
If your child has a crisis and you can’t help him or her calm down,a 24-
hour service called CARES can come to your child.You can call CARES
at 800-345-9049

800-345-9049

800-345-9049 or 773-523-4504

773-523-4504

773-523-4504 (TTY).

CARES stands for Crisis and
Referral Entry Services.

CARES will send a crisis worker to your house to evaluate your child.
The crisis worker,from a program called SASS,will talk with you and
your child. SASS stands for Screening,Assessment and Support
Services.

Keep the CARES phone number where you can find it quickly
in an emergency

http://www.isbe.state.il.us/pdf/school_health/mh-res-trtmnt-hdbk01-12.pdf

This program only covers a certain portion of children:

"CARES serves Illinois youths who are under 18 if they are not covered
by private health insurance,are eligible for public funding,or if their
private insurance coverage is exhausted or does not include mental
health treatment.CARES and SASS also serve youths under 21 if they
are enrolled in the All Kids health care program and/or if they have
Medicaid coverage. Families with private health insurance coverage can
get emergency help through community mental health providers." P. 11

And it continues to recommend calling LE:

"Call 911 if a situation is out of control and you fear that your child or
someone else could get hurt. However, when police come you may
lose control of what happens.Tell the police dispatcher that your child
has a mental illness, and ask the dispatcher to send a social worker or
police officer with Crisis InterventionTraining (CIT).CIT officers have
special training to handle mental health crises." P. 11

So while I applaud this program and the state's proactive approach, the program does not take LE out of the equation in some situations and calling 911 will not necessarily result in a referral to CARES.

Salem



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