The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 30th June - Trial Day 12, Week 3

Status
Not open for further replies.
Re: The queue at the start of the morning.

I hope those who are attending aren't being given incentive for sinister reasons to attend so the defence can declare the trail isn't fair because of the huge public interest.

And... you know what guys? I think that having 3 court rooms plus a media room is exactly what high profile people with important legacies want. It justifies to them how much interest people care about them etc.


When in reality most of those people just care for Allison,the children and the Dickies.
 
Caroline Overington @overingtonc · 20s
The App was one of Allison's conditions after the affair, so she could track where he was #badenclay
of course it was, this guys got an answer for everything
 
GBC seems to be creating some doubt amongst some bloggers today. My thought is this.

a) it's not a question of whether there is any doubt, it's whether the level of doubt that he committed the crime is reasonable. Unless you witnessed him do it there'll always be doubt, that's why it's reasonable doubt.

b) it's expected he'll have a story and that he'll try to seem reasonable and create sympathy for himself, the jury must expect this and not get too swept up in it

c) the jury needs to look at the facts

i) she has 6 plants in her hair all found at their house, only 2 found at the creek. How did they get in her hair of all places if no foul play at the house?

ii) her blood in the car in a reasonable amount and in an unlikely location without her body being in an unlikely position

iii) her body found some distance from home in a location that is unlikely she would walk to for suicide, for many reasons, and unlikely she could walk to without being seen. The location is more suitable as one where someone would try to hide a body, indicating foul play

iv) cause of death cannot be found but does rule out a fall from the bridge (no broken bones), drowning and I think drug overdose

v) several doctors and her own husband's testimony indicate she was not considered suicidal (even at her worst) and that she was doing better

vi) the scratch marks on his face which several have indicated cannot be from a razor both in how they look plus the plausibility of getting that many that bad before stopping

vii) second person's DNA found under her fingernails just not enough to test. Aligns with the scratch marks above

viii) Allison not involved in criminal activity, no sign of sexual abuse and no missing jewellery indicating not killed by a third party for robbery or sexual adventure

ix) has motive, needed the money and promised to leave her for the mistress despite saying he couldn't afford a divorce

x) and has opportunity, home alone with his wife and they had to talk about his affair

xi) the phone put on charge during the morning, claims it was her doing it late but she had to be up early


Plus all the odd things like the speed of calling the police and the initial police officer's impression there'd been some domestic violence and something was off, and turned out to be exactly right as she was found dead. The phone missing.
 
Report by LB1 of the happenings at and around Brisbane Courthouse 26 June 2014.

A male individual, Gerard Baden Clay, accused of the murder of his wife Allison June Dickie Baden Clay 19 April 2012, got up on the stand today at Brisbane Court house and spoke in his own defense.

Gerard was a salesman. He had gift of the gab, or so he thought. Was gifted in selling his message whatever that message might be.

He was asked a pertintent question: "Did you kill Allison?" His reply, "No, I did not. Sorry ...."

Meanwhile, across the country, ordinary citizens watched events as they unfolded. Not exactly "watched" per se.

But they were kept informed with up to the minute reports from within the Court house by tweets.

A large family of Websleuths, kept in touch with this wonderful new mode of Communication called Internet.

Reporter Kate Kyriacou twitted furiously.
Websleuths members followed the tweets with keen intent.

(The defendant had previously requested that professional people please tone it down a bit. The defendants father had corrected the Court as to the correct pronunciation of his sons name. A significant matter apparently.)

Back to the Brisbane Court House in beautiful sunny Queensland Australia

Gerard Baden Clay made a speech. A Soliloquy in fact, out-lining the life and times of Gerard Baden Clay.

His speech was so moving that he brought himself to tears with his own Eloquence.

Others were also moved by his speech. Moved in many different ways.

Some exclaimed. Some screamed, and some just opened and shut their mouths, gulping air with no words being produced; Some tried hard not to say bad words, and some just went hysterical. Indignity, shock and fury was felt everywhere. Yes, people were definitely moved.

Some noticed later that due to the long speech, they suffered peculiar neck pain and headaches. It was discovered later that the cause was "shaking the head" in disbelief for an extended period of time.
Some had to be surgically removed from their computer screens.

One member, Trooper was also greatly moved, a little differently. Trooper chuckled and rocked and said things like "Nice move Boyle, I have to hand it to you." Trooper's loyal little dog, started laughing.

One male websleuths member requested a pit stop, and pleaded that the trial could be put on hold for couple of minutes.
Fortunately someone came to the rescue and brought a bucket for the emergency.
But Alas, it was .... "too late."

However the bucket wasn't wasted. It got a good work out later. An epidemic of nausea and vomiting (d's and v's) occurred right across Australia, and some parts of Germany and even faraway USA.

The cause appears to have been caused by Brazen-Clay-itis. A new syndrone with negative connotations. Symptoms include infuriation, and inability to cope with lies deceit and general confabulations. The main symptom is triggered by a perceived offence to ones consciousness. A fair bit of bile occurs. Together with a sense of indignation. Nausea and vomiting may occur, also hair pulling and involuntary expostulations.

Throughout this odd epidemic that was gripping the public, Gerard waxed lyrical and went on and on about his wonderful husband-ship and pretty much how wonderful things were.

As Gerard's speech continued relentlessly, MarlyWings, websleuths moderator, interrupted his soliloquy; quietly, firmly, repeatedly, and equally relentlessly posting words straight out of Allison's Diary.
These words from Allison's Diary thus made it possible for Allison's voice to be heard from beyond the grave.

These words were in complete contradiction to the stuff that was pouring from the mouth of Gerard.
These interruptions of Allison's own words also brought matters right back to being ON Topic.
Allison's words spoke the real story. A story of emotional and spiritual abuse. Some are familiar with the term Gas-lighting. Physical abuse in such situation may be fatal.

Allison appears to have been a very positive resilient person with extraordinary coping mechanisms, living under worse than ordinary circumstances. (Those are my personal observations. Not Gerards)

The trial progressed, (I think it progressed.)

It became difficult to work out if the situation was a Murder Trial or a Circus. Or perhaps a motivation speech, about the power of positive thinking stuff.
Whatever it was all about, it eventually appeared that it was all about Gerard Baden Clay.

Ordinary people learned how Gerard calculated percentages on just how much of the family work within the marriage was done by Gerard.
For those people who understand numbers and calculators etc, Gerard explained his percentage like 60% 90%.
Gerards percentages were higher than his wife's percentages. This must have relevant to something, because Gerard said.
I do recall that Gerard's percentage was more. And Allison's percentage was less. )
I remember also that he did mention breast feeding somewhere in the same breaths near the percentages bit, so I concluded he had mastered that also.

He said Allison had gone all quiet like. Sounded like reclusive, but he didn't use that word. And he he couldn't work out the reason.

He said he had an affair at the same time as she went all quiet. And she started acting queerly. He apparently didn't put two and two together. Even though he said he was good at figures.

He said he had a good job, better than Allison's job.

(He neglected to say he got sacked from that job.
He neglected to say he sued the company that had employed him.
He neglected to mention the Court Case that followed. And neglected to mention that he had dragged Allison's good name through the mud.
Despite all this,the same Company has since spoken in very highly praise of Allison.
The same Company has not spoken one word.about Gerard. Silence.)

Gerard inferred he is pretty good all round bloke. His grandfather was famous, he said.

He irons clothes at night wearing pyjamas and walking shoes.
Well, don't know about ironing clothes every night, or indeed if he has used an iron before, but that is what he apparently was doing the night Allison disappeared.
His daughter came out for a drink of water in the middle of the same night that Allison disappeared and he told her he had been ironing downstairs, wearing pyjamas and walking shoes.

He incurred very serious wounds to his face between approximately that time and the time the police arrived next morning. He covered those bloody wounds with shaving cream, and asked a sleepy child to put a band aid on his face. The band-aid would not stick when applied over balm.

Deflections, yes that was other distracting part of the entire performance. Gerard answers questions with a deflection. Therefore one needs to be armed with an ability to decipher the truth part that the deflection is sliding off, or away from.

As previously mentioned, one tends to become distracted regarding working out if this is a Murder Trial or Circus Event or even a bad Comedy. Except the reality is that Allison was murdered, and Gerard is being charged with her murder. And there are three beautiful and innocent children who are without their mother.
There is also Allison's family who pledged that Justice would be done. entire family (her family by blood) have worked towards Truth and Justice from the outset, helping Police and Volunteers with the initial search and much more.

There is more to this report but that's the nuts and bolts of it. (Not sure if reporting is my calling. My very first report. And I meant to have it in before Monday morning!)
 
TM probably did have to put in a request...but may have had to stand in line :)

Marly TM did stand in line when GErRed was at a Sydney conference AND she flew to Sydney to be next in the sack!!
Oh the shame of it all.

Eeewwww Allison was right, I think it's dirty too.
 
GBC seems to be creating some doubt amongst some bloggers today. My thought is this.

a) it's not a question of whether there is any doubt, it's whether the level of doubt that he committed the crime is reasonable. Unless you witnessed him do it there'll always be doubt, that's why it's reasonable doubt.

b) it's expected he'll have a story and that he'll try to seem reasonable and create sympathy for himself, the jury must expect this and not get too swept up in it

c) the jury needs to look at the facts

i) she has 6 plants in her hair all found at their house, only 2 found at the creek. How did they get in her hair of all places if no foul play at the house?

ii) her blood in the car in a reasonable amount and in an unlikely location without her body being in an unlikely position

iii) her body found some distance from home in a location that is unlikely she would walk to for suicide, for many reasons, and unlikely she could walk to without being seen. The location is more suitable as one where someone would try to hide a body, indicating foul play

iv) cause of death cannot be found but does rule out a fall from the bridge (no broken bones), drowning and I think drug overdose

v) several doctors and her own husband's testimony indicate she was not considered suicidal (even at her worst) and that she was doing better

vi) the scratch marks on his face which several have indicated cannot be from a razor both in how they look plus the plausibility of getting that many that bad before stopping

vii) second person's DNA found under her fingernails just not enough to test. Aligns with the scratch marks above

viii) Allison not involved in criminal activity, no sign of sexual abuse and no missing jewellery indicating not killed by a third party for robbery or sexual adventure

ix) has motive, needed the money and promised to leave her for the mistress despite saying he couldn't afford a divorce

x) and has opportunity, home alone with his wife and they had to talk about his affair

xi) the phone put on charge during the morning, claims it was her doing it late but she had to be up early


Plus all the odd things like the speed of calling the police and the initial police officer's impression there'd been some domestic violence and something was off, and turned out to be exactly right as she was found dead. The phone missing.

Thanks Susan 12. I agree.
 
So... What are everyone's thoughts after today? No matter what we all might think about GBC and his behaviour .... I'm sure that nobody would want to see him found guilty IF he was innocent and no one would want to see him get off if he murdered Allison. At the end of the day all we can really hope for is JUSTICE.

my question would be.. what part of todays testimony, and the previous day's testimony, had truth in it? I mean verifiable rational truth.. not a version of, or an imagined part, but which part of any of it had the genuine ring of truth to it??

to simplify.. when was Gerard lying and when was he telling the truth?

My thoughts are that the vast majority of todays testimony is true. There are definitley a few things that I am iffy about though - such as the facial scratches, the blood in the car, and when all is said and done, how on earth ABC died and ended up where she did. But frankly, I just don't think most of what he has said is unusual at all in the circumstance and context of thier lives. In fact, it all sounds rather (sadly) familiar to me...
 
Thankyou to all the tweeters!
It took me hours to get through reading the entire thread - you guys have been tweeting all day. Very much appreciated.
:tyou:
 
I wish I had your optimism!

We haven't got to the arrest yet. Or heard from his toxicologist or psychologist!

<mod snips her modsnip about modsnipping>

Sorry must have been unclear with my last post, I meant that the prosecution will probably commence cross-examining Gerard tomorrow, after the defence has finished questioning him....this all happens prior to the other defence witnesses taking the stand.
 
My thoughts are that the vast majority of todays testimony is true. There are definitley a few things that I am iffy about though - such as the facial scratches, the blood in the car, and when all is said and done, how on earth ABC died and ended up where she did. But frankly, I just don't think most of what he has said is unusual at all in the circumstance and context of thier lives. In fact, it all sounds rather (sadly) familiar to me...

I think most of it probably is true. I don't think much of it has to be untrue for it be also true that he killed her. Only some key bits about that night and morning. Other than the "Did you kill" and blood questions having to be lied to he can pretty much tell the truth around that and just omit the other bits.
 
&#8220;We picked up takeaway coffees from McDonalds and went in the car up to Mt Coot-tha,&#8221; he said.
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...-allison-in-2012/story-fnihsrf2-1226971633938

Haven't caught up yet. I am a McDonalds boycotter. Do they actually serve serve weak decaf skim cappuccinos?
 
Report by LB1 of the happenings at and around Brisbane Courthouse 26 June 2014.

A male individual, Gerard Baden Clay, accused of the murder of his wife Allison June Dickie Baden Clay 19 April 2012, got up on the stand today at Brisbane Court house and spoke in his own defense.

Gerard was a salesman. He had gift of the gab, or so he thought. Was gifted in selling his message whatever that message might be.

He was asked a pertintent question: "Did you kill Allison?" His reply, "No, I did not. Sorry ...."

Meanwhile, across the country, ordinary citizens watched events as they unfolded. Not exactly "watched" per se.

But they were kept informed with up to the minute reports from within the Court house by tweets.

A large family of Websleuths, kept in touch with this wonderful new mode of Communication called Internet.

Reporter Kate Kyriacou twitted furiously.
Websleuths members followed the tweets with keen intent.

(The defendant had previously requested that professional people please tone it down a bit. The defendants father had corrected the Court as to the correct pronunciation of his sons name. A significant matter apparently.)

Back to the Brisbane Court House in beautiful sunny Queensland Australia

Gerard Baden Clay made a speech. A Soliloquy in fact, out-lining the life and times of Gerard Baden Clay.

His speech was so moving that he brought himself to tears with his own Eloquence.

Others were also moved by his speech. Moved in many different ways.

Some exclaimed. Some screamed, and some just opened and shut their mouths, gulping air with no words being produced; Some tried hard not to say bad words, and some just went hysterical. Indignity, shock and fury was felt everywhere. Yes, people were definitely moved.

Some noticed later that due to the long speech, they suffered peculiar neck pain and headaches. It was discovered later that the cause was "shaking the head" in disbelief for an extended period of time.
Some had to be surgically removed from their computer screens.

One member, Trooper was also greatly moved, a little differently. Trooper chuckled and rocked and said things like "Nice move Boyle, I have to hand it to you." Trooper's loyal little dog, started laughing.

One male websleuths member requested a pit stop, and pleaded that the trial could be put on hold for couple of minutes.
Fortunately someone came to the rescue and brought a bucket for the emergency.
But Alas, it was .... "too late."

However the bucket wasn't wasted. It got a good work out later. An epidemic of nausea and vomiting (d's and v's) occurred right across Australia, and some parts of Germany and even faraway USA.

The cause appears to have been caused by Brazen-Clay-itis. A new syndrone with negative connotations. Symptoms include infuriation, and inability to cope with lies deceit and general confabulations. The main symptom is triggered by a perceived offence to ones consciousness. A fair bit of bile occurs. Together with a sense of indignation. Nausea and vomiting may occur, also hair pulling and involuntary expostulations.

Throughout this odd epidemic that was gripping the public, Gerard waxed lyrical and went on and on about his wonderful husband-ship and pretty much how wonderful things were.

As Gerard's speech continued relentlessly, MarlyWings, websleuths moderator, interrupted his soliloquy; quietly, firmly, repeatedly, and equally relentlessly posting words straight out of Allison's Diary.
These words from Allison's Diary thus made it possible for Allison's voice to be heard from beyond the grave.

These words were in complete contradiction to the stuff that was pouring from the mouth of Gerard.
These interruptions of Allison's own words also brought matters right back to being ON Topic.
Allison's words spoke the real story. A story of emotional and spiritual abuse. Some are familiar with the term Gas-lighting. Physical abuse in such situation may be fatal.

Allison appears to have been a very positive resilient person with extraordinary coping mechanisms, living under worse than ordinary circumstances. (Those are my personal observations. Not Gerards)

The trial progressed, (I think it progressed.)

It became difficult to work out if the situation was a Murder Trial or a Circus. Or perhaps a motivation speech, about the power of positive thinking stuff.
Whatever it was all about, it eventually appeared that it was all about Gerard Baden Clay.

Ordinary people learned how Gerard calculated percentages on just how much of the family work within the marriage was done by Gerard.
For those people who understand numbers and calculators etc, Gerard explained his percentage like 60% 90%.
Gerards percentages were higher than his wife's percentages. This must have relevant to something, because Gerard said.
I do recall that Gerard's percentage was more. And Allison's percentage was less. )
I remember also that he did mention breast feeding somewhere in the same breaths near the percentages bit, so I concluded he had mastered that also.

He said Allison had gone all quiet like. Sounded like reclusive, but he didn't use that word. And he he couldn't work out the reason.

He said he had an affair at the same time as she went all quiet. And she started acting queerly. He apparently didn't put two and two together. Even though he said he was good at figures.

He said he had a good job, better than Allison's job.

(He neglected to say he got sacked from that job.
He neglected to say he sued the company that had employed him.
He neglected to mention the Court Case that followed. And neglected to mention that he had dragged Allison's good name through the mud.
Despite all this,the same Company has since spoken in very highly praise of Allison.
The same Company has not spoken one word.about Gerard. Silence.)

Gerard inferred he is pretty good all round bloke. His grandfather was famous, he said.

He irons clothes at night wearing pyjamas and walking shoes.
Well, don't know about ironing clothes every night, or indeed if he has used an iron before, but that is what he apparently was doing the night Allison disappeared.
His daughter came out for a drink of water in the middle of the same night that Allison disappeared and he told her he had been ironing downstairs, wearing pyjamas and walking shoes.

He incurred very serious wounds to his face between approximately that time and the time the police arrived next morning. He covered those bloody wounds with shaving cream, and asked a sleepy child to put a band aid on his face. The band-aid would not stick when applied over balm.

Deflections, yes that was other distracting part of the entire performance. Gerard answers questions with a deflection. Therefore one needs to be armed with an ability to decipher the truth part that the deflection is sliding off, or away from.

As previously mentioned, one tends to become distracted regarding working out if this is a Murder Trial or Circus Event or even a bad Comedy. Except the reality is that Allison was murdered, and Gerard is being charged with her murder. And there are three beautiful and innocent children who are without their mother.
There is also Allison's family who pledged that Justice would be done. entire family (her family by blood) have worked towards Truth and Justice from the outset, helping Police and Volunteers with the initial search and much more.

There is more to this report but that's the nuts and bolts of it. (Not sure if reporting is my calling. My very first report. And I meant to have it in before Monday morning!)
Ladybird 1 you are a legend reporter!!! [emoji122]
 
My thoughts are that the vast majority of todays testimony is true. There are definitley a few things that I am iffy about though - such as the facial scratches, the blood in the car, and when all is said and done, how on earth ABC died and ended up where she did. But frankly, I just don't think most of what he has said is unusual at all in the circumstance and context of thier lives. In fact, it all sounds rather (sadly) familiar to me...

Do you believe that Allison was as incapacitated by her depression as GBC suggests?

P.S you don't need to answer if you don't want to..... Just interested on how others see this. We have him and his family painting a very bleak picture of the impact her depression had on the family and Allison's family and friends saying it was under control with medication. I understand that outsiders don't always know what goes on behind closed doors. Not having ever suffered from depression, but I feel like my mum would be the first person I would turn to if it had got to that point.
 
iii) her body found some distance from home in a location that is unlikely she would walk to for suicide, for many reasons, and unlikely she could walk to without being seen. The location is more suitable as one where someone would try to hide a body, indicating foul play

iv) cause of death cannot be found but does rule out a fall from the bridge (no broken bones), drowning and I think drug overdose
I am not at all implying I think she suicided, but none of these were ruled out per the autopsy report. Page 14
http://websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30810&d=1363404040
 
Sorry, haven't had any time to read websleuths today, but did read the transcript of the Brisbane times.

I saw a huge inconsistency between GBC saying he just wanted TM for sex, saying what she wanted to hear - and then saying HE kept trying to break it off as there wasn't a future in it. What man wants a future in an affair if all he wants is sex?

This "physical intimacy" term was giving me the irrits and I only read one article. Didn't Allison say in a journal she longed for hugs?
 
My thoughts are that the vast majority of todays testimony is true. There are definitley a few things that I am iffy about though - such as the facial scratches, the blood in the car, and when all is said and done, how on earth ABC died and ended up where she did. But frankly, I just don't think most of what he has said is unusual at all in the circumstance and context of thier lives. In fact, it all sounds rather (sadly) familiar to me...

I agree that most of the testimony probably was true, though heavily laced with poor GBC spin. But ... the blood in the car, the scratches, the coincidence of this all happening only a couple of days after confronting GBC's infidelity with a professional and Allison's need for direct answers after that, the missing phone, and that damning tv interview with his sister by his side (that's was a clanger for me) - they are all pretty darn convincing, and will hopefully be belted home by the prosecution in the next couple of days. How on earth can those scratches and the blood stain possibly be logically explained away? I just think GBC hasn't had to really answer any difficult questions before the jury yet - :please: please let that happen!
 
Originally Posted by redlightthroughpaper
My thoughts are that the vast majority of todays testimony is true. There are definitley a few things that I am iffy about though - such as the facial scratches, the blood in the car, and when all is said and done, how on earth ABC died and ended up where she did. But frankly, I just don't think most of what he has said is unusual at all in the circumstance and context of thier lives. In fact, it all sounds rather (sadly) familiar to me...

I think most of it probably is true. I don't think much of it has to be untrue for it be also true that he killed her. Only some key bits about that night and morning. Other than the "Did you kill" and blood questions having to be lied to he can pretty much tell the truth around that and just omit the other bits.

I completely agree Susan. I understand that different people lead different types of lives, have different personalities and different experiences, so would therefore react differently in different circumstances - and perhaps that is why so much of what he says is thought by so many in here to be lies. But I just don't find most of what he has described today as being obvious lies. Even the blood in the car which he said he didn't know it was there. I'm sure if he is guilty and he DID know it was there, he'd have cleaned it up before he called police - so I don't think that's a lie either. For me, I guess the extent of his lying comes down to the scratches on his face. And I don't shave, so can only go by what others on here who do - and of course the expert witnesses - have said about that.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
212
Guests online
3,194
Total visitors
3,406

Forum statistics

Threads
592,250
Messages
17,965,989
Members
228,730
Latest member
ChucksChickTiff
Back
Top