GBC Trial General Discussion Thread #4

[ollijack]

I work with people with disabilities, mental and physical. It is so easy
to influence the way they think. Over the years some staff have
done this and thankfully have been gotten rid of. What Im saying is
these people are like children, it is so easy to manipulate them to think and
say what you like. As parents we all know how easy it is to manipulate kids.

 

[Bobbie Elliott]

Only Dad knows where she goes.

'Dad doesn't know where she went today.'

He was calling people ... to drive around and search the area and he called police'.

http://www.capitalbay.com/latest-ne...ed-to-court-on-third-day-of-murder-trial.html


I have wondered why GBC's mates didnt go looking for Allison. Id certainly ask my friends to jump in their cars to help look, especially if I rang them to ask if they'd seen my OH . (actually I wouldnt have to ask them to search they'd just do it) If we had no luck then Id phone the police.

Not quite the same, but hubby and I've done this when neighbours' and friends' dogs have gone missing. We haven't waited to be asked, just checked where they had searched or were searching already.

 

[LadyBird1]

I work with people with disabilities, mental and physical. It is so easy
to influence the way they think. Over the years some staff have
done this and thankfully have been gotten rid of. What Im saying is
these people are like children, it is so easy to manipulate them to think and
say what you like. As parents we all know how easy it is to manipulate kids.

Yes, easy. Don't have to say much.
Child: "Where is Mummy?"
Adult: "Mummy's gone for a walk"
Child: *** slight whimper***
Adult "Mummy's gone for a walk, and wont be back."
Child: understanding that Mummy has gone for a walk, because adult said so.

 

[spratsmum]

Just a couple of observations from some the posts recently:

1. The Life Assurance policy - in this situation and probably many others (terminal illness, coma, expected death) it would be appropriate to contact the Insurance company in the days leading up to the discovery of Allison's body. People who are preparing for someone to die or in this found dead do these things and on checklists for this sort situation you would find contacting the insurance company high on the list. Particularly if they Insurance agent, I think the company would have been aware that Allison was missing. Just to be totally practical, as there financial situation was so precarious, they would have needed money to pay for the funeral, funerals are required to be paid upfront, and are in excess of $5000.

2. I wonder why GBC phone records don't show him being hounded by Westpac re the missed credit card payments and overlimit spends. They are usually quite relentless in their pursuit of defaulters. Did they use the card between February and April? banks usually won't let you use the card once you are overlimit and in default.

3. To a young child, if Mum goes for a walk three times, she goes every day, she went last Monday - so she walks every Monday, there reasoning is not the same as an adult. The same goes for "coaching" children, they would remember the latest idea put into there minds, having said that though they can be brutally honest.

4.The roundabout and all the other things we don't quite understand - there is so much in this case that has not been explained - including the cause of death, transporting to Kholo Creek, the importance of the phone (I wonder if it was of that much importance, or the police where searching hoping it may give them some clues) and the intriguing roundabout, that the prosecution case is very circumstantial,but once that silly man put himself on the stand and exposed all of his lies, you just could not believe him about anything.

5. The scratches - could someone more knowledgeable tell me if you are smothered in your sleep, would you wake up and therefore be able to inflict the scratches, or do you just slip away. Babies who smother don't seem to wake themselves and cry and with plastic bags children (in movies) seem to lose consciousness quickly.

 

[they'll get you]

Joslyn frosts statement is an eye opener. The business was run like 'Fat Pizza' comedy show.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30811&d=1363404182

I can't remember Jocelyn giving evidence?

 

[Couldbe]

Look at where GBC slipped up in his planning::

1. Phoned his Parents and friends very early in the morning. Allison’s Parents phoned much later;

2. Did not phone TM; (Did he arrange for her to phone him after she would have observed that Allison wasn’t at Conference ….. although his evidence included that the two of them would not spot each other due to hundreds in attendance;

3. Omitted to make Allison’s pyjamas available (that he was going to say that he last saw her wearing); However, tactic to now mention them … cannot be now part of Trial evidence for Prosecution;

4. Forgot to take Allison’s phone to leave at Kholo Creek …. It was triangulated within a 4km radius of their house (he put it in a place whereby it could be retrieved later to be disposed of when battery was flat);

5. Omitted to see Allison’s blood in the Captiva;

6. Couldn’t rely on NBC coordinating their ‘details’ accurately;

7. Taking the stand at his Trial …….. leaving himself open questions which caused him to tell more lies, and admit to his unproud of behaviour (sordid details of which he was reluctant to provide to the Court …. which the Judge and Jury can observe and detail;

8. Lack of remorse ……. Of course.

 

[kiwi50]

Joslyn frosts statement is an eye opener. The business was run like 'Fat Pizza' comedy show.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30811&d=1363404182

I can't remember Jocelyn giving evidence?

I have just gone back and reread Phil Broomes statement, and was about to ask if he gave evidence too. If neither gave evidence do the jury get given a copy of their statements, they were very revealing.

 

[Camp Chair]

Welcome to Sunday sleuthers! Beautiful day here in Brisbane... just introduced a small rooster to my flock of GG's. He won't stop crowing about it, so I have decided to name him.... Gerard.

 

[toe]

Allison Baden-Clay had three jobs at the time of her death, plus a plan a friend described as 'her dream'.

The 43-year-old was working at her husband's Century 21 real estate business at Taringa in western Brisbane, as well as holding parties to sell health food and hair products for an outfit called New Ways and conducting a youth resilience program at her children's Brookfield State Primary School.

Then there was the ballet school she ran in the school hall after classes.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...es-muddy-river-bank-dumped.html#ixzz36aywHcCn

Not bad for someone described as having major depression, unable to drive due to panic attacks, unable to run a household and was so striken with depression she spent her day on the lounge in a darkened room. :gaah:

 

[toe]

Just putting up a link, sort of a refresher really, just to show how deluded someone really is. Also what a liar someone really is. Article is from 27/4/2012, published just 3 days before Allison's body was found.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...built-on-honesty/story-e6freoof-1226340594889

From your link "For starters, it's the wrong thing to do but secondly you will always get caught out and usually when you least expect it.

How true is that Gerry?!!!!

 

[BJsleuth]

I have just gone back and reread Phil Broomes statement, and was about to ask if he gave evidence too. If neither gave evidence do the jury get given a copy of their statements, they were very revealing.

No. Neither Phil's, Jocelyn's nor Ben Bassingthwaite or the Forensic Accountant gave evidence. There was much in the bail hearings which didn't come out in the trial. It seems weird but I'm assuming the defence had it removed because it would appear prejudicial.

 

[Happygolucky]

You have to wonder if those poor little girls were simply repeating what they were told to say. I do hope the Detectives re-interviewed the girls after they were settled and feeling more secure at the Dickies.

I would also hope they were reinterviewed but if they were nothing significant resulted or it would have been played in court

 

[Amee]

I would also hope they were reinterviewed but if they were nothing significant resulted or it would have been played in court

A second subsequent police interview with the Baden-Clays' eldest child made on June 27, 2012 - almost two months after Allison's body was found - was played to the court.

Two women detectives interviewed the girl at Surfers Paradise police station.

 

[Happygolucky]

I just thought I would clarify re the two cars seen at Anstead at 4am we need to remember GBC's phone went on charge at 1.48am. So I think this why not much has really been mentioned about it.

My guess police discounted it as a credible sighting or the phone charging discounted it.

I wonder if the defence will use this in summing up. If the prosecution case is that Alison was murdered and back home by 1.48 then if Alison had gone for a late night walk to clear her head (there is ample evidence she had plenty on her mind-marital stress, weverevfinancial stress, coping with long term depression, back in the workforce full time and all the juggling that entails etc.) then what were the cars doing there and could they be somehow be independently connected to Alison's disappearance?

 

[Happygolucky]

With regard to the pyjamas my point there are a lot of maybes. It would have been simple to determine if they were in the house and if they were where they were located. The police who searched the house would know. You can't suddenly bring it up as evidence in the summary if you have not addressed it in the court proceedings. We know they were not in the photo but that is all we know

 

[Happygolucky]

A second subsequent police interview with the Baden-Clays' eldest child made on June 27, 2012 - almost two months after Allison's body was found - was played to the court.

Two women detectives interviewed the girl at Surfers Paradise police station.

But there was no additional incrimination information

 

[Happygolucky]

I have just gone back and reread Phil Broomes statement, and was about to ask if he gave evidence too. If neither gave evidence do the jury get given a copy of their statements, they were very revealing.

One of the problems I have with this case is that I have read all the statements from committal. However, they were not witnesses at trial and not subjected to a trail defence lawyers cross examination. Some of the committal statements painted a dire financial situation. It may well have been a dire financial situation but GBC was not given the opportunity to present his financial side properly. The jury have not been shown these, nor can they be used as part of the case. The fact that GBC was not a good financial manager, treated friends and business associates poorly, lied, cheated etc. does not make him a nice bloke but probably is not directly relevant to the case

 

[toe]

Joslyn frosts statement is an eye opener. The business was run like 'Fat Pizza' comedy show.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30811&d=1363404182

I can't remember Jocelyn giving evidence?

Wow!!

Thanks, very interesting do the Juror's get to read these statements? I sure hope so.

 

[Happygolucky]

Look at where GBC slipped up in his planning::

1. Phoned his Parents and friends very early in the morning. Allison’s Parents phoned much later;

2. Did not phone TM; (Did he arrange for her to phone him after she would have observed that Allison wasn’t at Conference ….. although his evidence included that the two of them would not spot each other due to hundreds in attendance;

3. Omitted to make Allison’s pyjamas available (that he was going to say that he last saw her wearing); However, tactic to now mention them … cannot be now part of Trial evidence for Prosecution;

4. Forgot to take Allison’s phone to leave at Kholo Creek …. It was triangulated within a 4km radius of their house (he put it in a place whereby it could be retrieved later to be disposed of when battery was flat);

5. Omitted to see Allison’s blood in the Captiva;

6. Couldn’t rely on NBC coordinating their ‘details’ accurately;

7. Taking the stand at his Trial …….. leaving himself open questions which caused him to tell more lies, and admit to his unproud of behaviour (sordid details of which he was reluctant to provide to the Court …. which the Judge and Jury can observe and detail;

8. Lack of remorse ……. Of course.

It could be argued
1. he lived close to his parents and initially asked them for help. He was not close to Alison's parents and may not have wanted to alarm them unnecessarily and this early stage.
2. Why would he be worried about ringing TM when his wife was missing
3. Was he ever asked to make Alison's pyjamas available?
4. The phone is a mystery. The fact that it was not found despite extensive searcing by police and SES etc causes me to wonder whether tracking devices were working correctly. GBC did not have the opportunity to run out and find it once the police were at his house. This seems to be one of the biggest mysteries of this case
5. Yep agree the blood in the Captiva is a biggie. However as there is no evidence he actually cleaned the car (otherwise the contents of the vacuum cleaner would have been submitted as evidence) were any other inquiries made of the girls whether mum ever sat in the back seat as a passenger? A long, long shot but was it ever asked? Why was the blond hair that was found in the rivulet of blood not examined in more detail. I understand if the root is not present that there is no DNA but surely with todays modern scientific advances they should be able to tell whether the hair is chemically coloured and whether the colour matched the recent (only the day before) colour treatment. If this was the case it would place the hair in the car in blood post the hairdressing appointment and would have been the clincher for me. Why wasn't it tested and if it was why were we not given the result?
6. Despite lots of speculation NBC has never been charged as an accomplice. There was no evidence presented that he was an accomplice
7. Is it a case of damned if you do and damned if you don't. He would have been acused as gutless if he did not take the stand.
8. Certainly lack of remorse if you are guilty. And he did not seem to have much remorse for his other "dastardly" behaviour

 

[Happygolucky]

Over the course of this trial I have only posted occasionally until yesterday. Some of the questions I have been posting are "devils advocate" questions that I would be asking if I was a juror. I attended one day at committal when "those" damning photos were shown and the court room was silent in shock. I have read the summaries every day and lots of comments hear and elsewhere. I must admit I had a very disturbed night last night thinking about it and am very glad I am not on the jury. I am still mulling over in my head but although I believe GBC is probably guilty I am still of the opinion that I have reasonable doubt. And that resonable doubt includes my knowledge of statements made at committal and reading financial records etc. and stuff posted by "verified" insiders. There only has to be one other person like me on the jury and it is a hung jury. I believe GBC is a proven liar but not a proven murderer. I am still trying to sort out lists in my head for and against and believe it will take the jury many days of discussions to really get to the bottom of all the evidence and its relevance. They have had the benefit of being in court, seeing the house and the bridge etc. What finally did it for me (at this stage anyway) was Fullers hypothesis of how the murder took place. It just did not ring true with 3 girls sleeping in the house.