The Crown v Gerard Baden-Clay, 9th July - Trial Day 17

[Inspector]

How do you propose it happened? How did it get back there, in a near-new car?

You rip a fingernail or hurt your finger and blood does not stream out. It oozes, unless it's a serious wound. There is no evidence that Allison ever injured herself in the 8 weeks they'd owned that car, let alone inside the car itself.

If she had a nosebleed, for example, her face would need to be up against there way in the back of the car. Highly unlikely.

How many times has anyone here ever injured themselves in their car to a point where they've left blood stains in it? Never happened to me. Curious if it's ever happened to anyone else here.

Really, if Gerard didn't do it, he us absolutely the unluckiest man in the world to have all these circumstances which point to guilt.

Funny you should ask that question Freya. The only time I have experienced an adult bleed without them knowing was after we drove home one afternoon, after visiting a rainforest and walking. A leech had attached itself to Mr Inspectors' back and was feeding off him during our trip home. I went to the car to find something and found a fat dead leach and a circle of blood where it had been asphyxiated. The important part of this anecdote, it that this "bleeding" occurred in a place the adults normally sit, in this case the drivers seat.

 

[JK673]

Funny you should ask that question Freya. The only time I have experienced an adult bleed without them knowing was after we drove home one afternoon, after visiting a rainforest and walking. A leech had attached itself to Mr Inspectors' back and was feeding off him during our trip home. I went to the car to find something and found a fat dead leach and a circle of blood where it had been asphyxiated. The important part of this anecdote, it that this "bleeding" occurred in a place the adults normally sit, in this case the drivers seat.

Are you sure it was a leech and not a caterpillar???


Sorry...bad one hhahahahaha

 

[Lu-Lu]

That quote from Allison's diary is dated 2010. Allison was murdered in 2012.

Opps blonde moment. [emoji15]

 

[BJsleuth]

Sure but tested for what plant matter, would have already been emptied washed ....bag tossed or cylinder washed.. Doesn't mean it wasn't used to clean dirt, leaves from car.

The leaves were present in the foot well of the car so could have been brushed off into there. It wouldn't be unusual to find it there because you'd get a certain amount tracked in on shoes.

 

[alioop]

A couple of questions have been asked of me in the last few threads about the legal stuff and juries but they have all been answered beautifully.
I think a verdict will take 2 days at the very least, likely several days. Rolf Harris jury took 8 days.

 

[Cattail]

Funny you should ask that question Freya. The only time I have experienced an adult bleed without them knowing was after we drove home one afternoon, after visiting a rainforest and walking. A leech had attached itself to Mr Inspectors' back and was feeding off him during our trip home. I went to the car to find something and found a fat dead leach and a circle of blood where it had been asphyxiated. The important part of this anecdote, it that this "bleeding" occurred in a place the adults normally sit, in this case the drivers seat.

A work colleague recently discovered a leech on her foot at 2:30 in the afternoon. It was inside her stocking. It had to have gotten between her toes at about 8am when she went outside in thongs to feed the chooks. Unnoticed. She put her stocking and shoe on over the top.

By discovery the leech was enormous. She had to pour the blood out of her shoe. And she had 3 obvious marks where she had been bleeding all day. It was still bleeding an hour later.

And she hadn't noticed it there for 6 and a half hours.



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[Inspector]

Life experience makes me sound old, I'll have you know I got asked for ID when going to the bottle shop fairly recently (well, maybe 2 years ago lol).

Lucky you! I'm not that old, but I never get asked :boohoo:

 

[MRSA]

When I injure myself I know all about it. If I stub my toe or get some other bump resulting in a bruise, I swear loud and long, I stop what I'm doing, I look at applying some relief because I am in pain. If I cut my finger preparing a meal, they can probably hear the scream next door. I'd venture that a low pain threshold is probably more common than your clearly very high pain threshold!

There's pain and there's pain.

As a guy I'm forever cutting and scratching my hands while working in the shed. First I know about it is when I go in to wash up and the water makes my hands sting like billy-o.

 

[Inspector]

Are you sure it was a leech and not a caterpillar???


Sorry...bad one hhahahahaha

Can't stop giggling now :floorlaugh:

 

[Zim]

Vacuum was tested I believe.

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Vacuum could have been cleaned before cops got it

 

[Liadan]

To the court goers today - how was TF's final sum up? Did he use the pointing finger to wag at GBC. Was Judge Byrne's talk easy listening or did you struggle to stay awake like when Barrister Byrne was talking?

 

[Tangled_Web]

Again, Gerard sure is one unlucky guy to have had all of these things occur. You can't just look at the blood. If it were the ONLY thing then yeh, I'd probably not think so much of it. But, when looking at ALL the evidence, it paints a damning picture.

I'm surprised Gerard's blood wasn't found in the car and all sorts of other places given how injury-prone he seems to be

 

[JCB]

A couple of questions have been asked of me in the last few threads about the legal stuff and juries but they have all been answered beautifully.
I think a verdict will take 2 days at the very least, likely several days. Rolf Harris jury took 8 days.

I had a quick look at the "will he be found guilty" poll and not guilty is sitting on 11% at present. I realise the question is framed a bit differently than "is he actually guilty" but still, that is equivalent to one and a bit dissenting jurors and this is in a pretty stacked environment (looking at 20% if you include undecided and manslaughter).

I think it gives a bit of an indication that there may be quite a bit of dissension, at least initially. Would you agree that the longer deliberations take, the better the chance of a guilty verdict? It's my opinion that a swift verdict, certainly within the first 24 hours may well result in bad news but beyond the first 1-2 days the chances of a finding of guilt start to increase dramatically.

Edit - Oi, which one of you went in there and wrecked my numbers slightly

 

[Aliwonders]

He should have just said they were scratches after an arguement re Toni, A slept on the couch, then must have been out walking when he woke up, but he raised the alarm early given the fight last night. Ie A was so angry and never normally lashes out etc.

He would still be in trouble. Once the body was found!! Even more damning in the event of him admitting to an altercation.

 

[JCB]

RSBM

Hi JCB

I'm playing catch up so no doubt you have had many responses to this already, all of which I'm interested to read very soon. My thoughts really relate to both of your questions - I think it is as simple as this (i.e. I don't think one should overthink it too much):

(a) As Fuller said (words to this effect), when you kill someone you want to get the body as far away from you as possible;
(b) IMO the murder wasn't planned for that evening so, while he may have thought about it in the past, he hadn't planned the finer details;
(c) After he realised Allison was dead, he knew he had to get her away, so his instincts took him there as he is familiar with the area through real estate and scout connections, it is the back road to Ipswich etc - at that time of night it would have been a 13 minute drive so not too far time wise, but far enough to be quite a way away from the murder scene.
(d) He wasn't thinking clearly and that is why he didn't choose more efficient methods such as those you suggested. He didn't have time to think about it too deeply and was likely too scared of being seen, to stop on the bridge.

I'm actually not too baffled about the choice of Kholo Creek. I just don't think he was thinking in terms of the insurance money at that time, rather, he just wanted the body gone as quickly as possible (which could possibly be the reason why the PT focused more on the affair than on the insurance aspect) - I think it is just where he ended up. I think luck played a huge part in that he wasn't seen and she wasn't found for 10 days Just my two cents!

All very valid points

 

[JK673]

I had a quick look at the "will he be found guilty" poll and not guilty is sitting at 11% at present. I realise the question is framed a bit differently than "is he actually guilty" but still, that is equivalent to one and a bit dissenting jurors and this is in a pretty stacked environment.

I think it gives a bit of an indication that there may be quite a bit of dissension, at least initially. Would you agree that the longer deliberations take, the better the chance of a guilty verdict? It's my opinion that a swift verdict, certainly within the first 24 hours may well result in bad news but beyond the first 1-2 days the chances of a finding of guilt start to increase dramatically.

There are no BC family members on the jury

 

[toe]

That was all Gerard was trying to tell the jury member in his note! :wink:
"Your chair looks dodgy, I'm good with a screwdriver and I'm a nice guy, I'm here to help."

And, while i'm at it here's my business card :floorlaugh:

 

[Inspector]

He would still be in trouble. Once the body was found!! Even more damning in the event of him admitting to an altercation.

You are probably right, given how many lies he has proven to have said over and over again during his trial.

 

[they'll get you]

One thing is for sure, he was a smooth operator who fooled many people.

That smooth operator will go back to Arthur Gorrie tonight alone in the back of a big prison van and have yet another full strip search before getting fed. Then in his little dark cell he knows why he's in that dog box and he's fighting and dreaming to be acquitted to fool more people and possibly next time murder his children when times again get tough.

 

[JCB]

There are no BC family members on the jury

Just like there were no National Party members on Joh's jury :innocent: