Malaysia airlines 370 with 239 people on board, 8 March 2014 #25

[SouthAussie]

Last night many people in southern Australia saw a fire in the sky, a ‘slow moving’ elongated bright light … slower than a shooting star/meteor. One person called the police to report a plane she saw on fire in the sky. Footage is being shown on our morning news, and is contained in a video at this link.

http://earthsky.org/space/bright-meteor-lights-up-skies-over-southeastern-australia-on-july-10

It now appears that it probably was the upper part of a Russian rocket that was launched two days ago … space junk.

Just mentioning it because it has made me wonder about the sightings by the oil rig worker and the sailor.

 

[SouthAussie]

Actually, if I remember correctly, Boeing indicated early on that it appeared that the transponder was "switched" off as opposed to be being cut off from power. But I don't remember where I saw that.

Despite many sensationalist reports in MSM, they apparently cannot actually tell if it was switched off or if something else caused it to stop working. They just know that it stopped.

Discussion on duncansteel.com science forum says that it is a bit like your home phone line when it stops working. The phone company does not know if someone ripped the phone line out or if something else happened. They have to go and look.

 

[redheadedgal]

So sadly, we have lost a direct connection to the MH370 case

sticking to the facts, there has been zero confirmation that what she saw was mh370 so imo, no one has "lost" a "direct connection" to the case.

also, she has twice now added info since the thread was closed, so "further input" from her is still occurring...

it's a shame she was attacked on her own thread. there was no reason for that

 

[2rose]

I don't think the intent was to deny the truth. I think the intent was that you are free to come up with lots of various theories that fit various aspects of the evidence, but what ever theory you use, you have to drag "the ball and chain" of the pings with you, meaning that theory must account for those pings. Many of the theories out there do not.

I believe Don Elliott is sincere, BUT his "truth" is shaped by
one of his personal experiences. Most people don't share his bias.

Those who want to describe theories that do NOT include the Inmarsat handshakes
have their own personal biases or agendas based on things that the public is not privy to
... Don Elliott is an example where the reason for his personal bias has been uncovered.

It is derogatory to apply the term "ball & chain" to a wife & in my opinion,
it is not fitting to apply that term to the "truth" of the Inmarsat handshakes.
People's actions can be judged as good or bad, but "the truth" just IS ... it is reality.
It is not good or bad that the handshakes occurred ... they just did.

If someone wants to describe theories without true facts, that is called a work of fiction.
It is an accepted art form that has it's place ... but one apart from THIS forum.

Sleuths here try not to rely on fictionalized accounts because
detectives solve cases by following clues based on the truth of reality.

 

[2rose]

no one has "lost" a "direct connection" to the case.

Before people could ask her public questions at any time, about her sighting ...
THAT is no longer possible. Therefore the public HAS lost easy access.
For instance, we would have been able to ask her, if her sighting
looked similar to the report that SouthAussie just told us about here.

also, she has twice now added info since the thread was closed, so "further input" from her is still occurring(

Perhaps you are rushing to judgement. The thread has only been closed for one day.
Over time, we will see if she continues to post as often as she did before !
IF that happens, only THEN would your comment be valid.

 

[Rhyolite]

What you are calling your "ball & chain" is the TRUTH.
Everyone in the world that understands the technology of satellite
communication systems (whether a respected scientist or a layperson)
accepts the evidence that between the hours of 3-8am on 8 March 2014
an airborne plane identifying itself as MH370 was communicating.
Furthermore, the Australian ground station was facilitating
this very communication between the plane & Inmarsat.
It is hard to understand why you think or desire people to ignore this TRUTH.
Most people understand that ignoring the truth, is no way to reach a solution to a problem.

The TRUTH is that the doppler methodology behind the supposed flight track is simply a THEORY, based on physics and having a ton of uncertainty in the variables. It is an untested methodology.

If we accept that the 7 hours of pings originated from MH370, must we accept that the BFO Bias values used in the doppler estimate are correct? I don't buy it. If the aircraft temperature rose due to a fire the oscillator would be well outside its normal operating range. If there were decompression, there would be an extreme in the cold direction.

Remember the graph with the notation "Possible Turn?". That indicates to me that INMARSAT ENGINEERS (not the guys in the suits) were uncertain what happened in that phase. Also, the model based on similar flights did not make that deviation.

 

[Rhyolite]

There is absolutely no way to know whether transponder comms were switched off or failed. Same with the ACARS and radios.

For example, you tell me you will be out of town for two weeks and I should drive by your house. I know you left a lamp on in the foyer, you told ne so and I saw it the first times I drove by. A week later, I drive by and the lamp is out. Did it burn out? Did you come home and switch it off? Did a burglar switch it off? Did a breaker trip?

See the point?

 

[Rhyolite]

Here is news story of a man named Donald Elliott @58 who comes from a good
background, being the son of a late prominent plastic surgeon in Albany, NY.
He himself has 37 years experience in aerial photography.
He spent countless hours analyzing the Tomnod satellite photographs.
In those photos, he professes to have found MH370 sinking
at about 4 degrees latitude & 90 degrees East longitude ...
which would be up in the area before the plane went on its southern line.
He further professes to see over 100 of those passengers sitting & standing
while floating on debris. He claims to see that as late as 16 March 2014 some of those
living passengers are being attacked by sharks as they float all the way down to Australia.

Don Elliott is very adamant about his findings & so passionate about wanting to help,
that he is contacted numerous media outlets, the FBI & even the USA White House.
But Don Elliott is very frustrated because he has not met with much co-operation.

Other people look at the pictures he brings forth & all they see is white dots.
What could possibly make Don see more than that ?
Perhaps it has something to do with a traumatic event he experienced
2 years prior, in a scuba diving episode in Belize, Central America.
Being in the boat above, Don panicked when he saw
sharks circling a few feet away from his son @24 who died.

news story ...
http://www.timesunion.com/local/article/Capital-Region-man-believes-he-located-lost-5470059.php

2 of his videos called "MH370 Truth Based on Facts" ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02b_BkduJ58
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENIlK-VK2rA

His webpage called "MH370 Truth" ...
http://www.dwestudios.com/MH370passengers/MH370Truth.htm

Here is his Tomnod photo of passengers floating around the plane ...
View attachment 54593

I went to TomNod and spent a few hours looking for stuff. Not high enough resolution to see debris. I did actually see a twin engine aircraft at a weird angle. Most likely in flight. I marked it for the experts.

 

[2rose]

If we accept that the 7 hours of pings originated from MH370, must we accept that the BFO Bias values used in the doppler estimate are correct?

No you don't. As I have said many, many times before, the Doppler effect
is the theory part which ONLY relates to the end location of MH370.
It has nothing to do with the time WHEN MH370 crashed.

The TRUTH is that the doppler methodology behind the supposed flight track is simply a THEORY, based on physics and having a ton of uncertainty in the variables. It is an untested methodology.

The TRUTH is I have said many, many times that the Inmarsat data
has both fact & theory attached to it. I don't know why people have trouble
separating the different pieces of info & understanding that distinction.
Time & location are 2 different pieces of info.

The technology of satellite communications is NOT a theory.
Therefore Inmarsat's RAW DATA gave us a FACT
... the TIME after which MH370 crashed.

The theory part ONLY relates to the end LOCATION of MH370.
The fact IS that the plane was STILL airborne at 8am ...
therefore it could not have crashed around 3am at ANY location.

If you want to say the plane crashed after 8am in the area of the Andaman Islands,
then that is a possiblity ... you can just expect to get questions about what the plane
was doing for 5 hours at that location.

 

[Mr. Noatak]

I went to TomNod and spent a few hours looking for stuff. Not high enough resolution to see debris. I did actually see a twin engine aircraft at a weird angle. Most likely in flight. I marked it for the experts.

My opinions only, no facts here:

I remember in the 1980's when I was touring a bunch of Russians in Alaska. At some point I discussed the unsatisfactory resolution of publically-available U.S. satellite pics and that I had heard rumors that the USSR had 1 meter resolution for their pics. After hearing from my translator, the whole group of Russians erupted in cynical laughter over my comment. It turned out that their publically-available satellite pics sucked too, even more.

The sat pics I am seeing here are around the same quality as in the 1980's. I assume that WE are still not privy to the good stuff.

And the "good stuff" is not limited to sharp and clear daytime sat pics with 1 meter resolution. There are some mighty fine radars on the west coast of Australia that likely could have tracked MH-370. There are likely military satellites that could have tracked MH-370 (via infrared) throughout its journey. Meanwhile, we are stuck with fuzzy daylight images that look like they were snapped thirty years ago.

There MUST be agencies and individuals that know more about the MH-370 situation than the public does. Come clean, or at the very least, leak some clues to speed up the resolution of this tragic mystery. If anyone thinks I am giving too much credit to the men-in-black, does anyone here really believe that if a nuclear-tipped cruise missile had been fired and followed the same path as MH-370, that we would be relying only on Inmarsat to determine its course?

Sleuth On!

 

[highflyer]

"Elliott was among the most zealous, and conceded that he inundated the Tomnod.com staff with so many emails that they eventually blocked him from the website and stopped responding to him."

http://www.timesunion.com/local/art...n-believes-he-located-lost-5470059.php#page-2

 

[Rhyolite]

(snip)

The theory part ONLY relates to the end LOCATION of MH370.
The fact IS that the plane was STILL airborne at 8am ...
therefore it could not have crashed around 3am at ANY location.

If you want to say the plane crashed after 8am in the area of the Andaman Islands,
then that is a possiblity ... you can just expect to get questions about what the plane
was doing for 5 hours at that location.

Arguably, the aircraft could have been parked on the ground or floating on water with the APU running until 8AM. All that is known, is that these pings reportedly came from MH370 and lasted until 8AM.

 

[Rhyolite]

You gotta give him credit for trying. I gave up on their project when I found I had no idea where my search locations were. You search in the blind. You can't search an area where someone has a hunch. I searched a huge block for the cause, and hoping to find recognizable land mass and finally gave it up.

 

[2rose]

Arguably, the aircraft could have been parked on the ground or floating on water with the APU running until 8AM. All that is known, is that these pings reportedly came from MH370 and lasted until 8AM.

NO, all the articles have repeatedly said that the airplane HAD to be airborne in order for the satellite to have communicated with the plane. If you have seen any reference that indicated that the plane could be landed & still have communicated with the satellite for 5 hours, please share such a reference as it will be educational for us all.

ETA: Furthermore if the plane could have been landed, I think that possibility would have been
covered by the outside team of scientists (posting on the Duncan Steel website) since they were at first critical of the southern arc scenario. It took the release of the raw data before they would agree to the southern arc route.

 

[SouthAussie]

Arguably, the aircraft could have been parked on the ground or floating on water with the APU running until 8AM. All that is known, is that these pings reportedly came from MH370 and lasted until 8AM.

Another thing that we know about the pings is that they changed location multiple times.

 

[Rhyolite]

NO, all the articles have repeatedly said that the airplane HAD to be airborne in order for the satellite to have communicated with the plane. If you have seen any reference that indicated that the plane could be landed & still have communicated with the satellite for 5 hours, please share such a reference as it will be educational for us all.

ETA: Furthermore if the plane could have been landed, I think that possibility would have been
covered by the outside team of scientists (posting on the Duncan Steel website) since they were at first critical of the southern arc scenario. It took the release of the raw data before they would agree to the southern arc route.

You do know what the purpose of an APU Auxillery Power Unit is for? All the satellite terminal requires is power, no flapping wings.

 

[Rhyolite]

Another thing that we know about the pings is that they changed location multiple times.

How do we KNOW that? There is a BFO beat frequency offset, a BFO bias and a BTO burst timing offset, All variables and fudge factors in a soup of an untested algorithm. What if the SDU were subjected to extreme temperatures? Has this been explored? If so, neither INMARSAT nor Duncan Steel have talked about these possibilities.

If I take an ordinary TDMA cellphone and heat it in an oven, put it in a freezer and test it against room temperature all manner of frequency and timing will vary. Now imagine an intense fire or decompression. Or imagine the plane parked on a hot tarmac somewhere with the APU running, full of passengers and no air-conditioning. Even if we accept that the aircraft were flying, the INMARSAT data is untested theory. The plane could have gone anywhere, anything could have happened to it, and all that exists is a very untested THEORY based on 7 blips, -- NOT FACT.

 

[Rhyolite]

Now some folks over at Duncan Steel have out together data suggesting MH370 circled west of Sumatra for an extended period before making a southerly trek. Wild! And I see some folks starting to realize the BFO Bias may be suspect. Its one of those variables if left alone the data tracks, if tweaked puts you off 100's of KM. Inmarsat hasn't provided data to support the assumption used for the value. Hmm what do you know.

 

[2rose]

NO, all the articles have repeatedly said that the airplane HAD to be airborne in order for the satellite to have communicated with the plane. If you have seen any reference that indicated that the plane could be landed & still have communicated with the satellite for 5 hours, please share such a reference as it will be educational for us all.

ETA: Furthermore if the plane could have been landed, I think that possibility would have been
covered by the outside team of scientists (posting on the Duncan Steel website) since they were at first critical of the southern arc scenario. It took the release of the raw data before they would agree to the southern arc route.

You do know what the purpose of an APU Auxillery Power Unit is for? All the satellite terminal requires is power, no flapping wings.

Since you are unable to supply ANY references as requested about the plane being landed
while communicating with the satellite, I must conclude that your argument is not plausible.
I will instead pay attention to the knowledge & experience of the respected scientists
(both internal & external) who have discussed the possibilities in this case at length.

 

[SouthAussie]

How do we KNOW that? There is a BFO beat frequency offset, a BFO bias and a BTO burst timing offset, All variables and fudge factors in a soup of an untested algorithm. What if the SDU were subjected to extreme temperatures? Has this been explored? If so, neither INMARSAT nor Duncan Steel have talked about these possibilities.

If I take an ordinary TDMA cellphone and heat it in an oven, put it in a freezer and test it against room temperature all manner of frequency and timing will vary. Now imagine an intense fire or decompression. Or imagine the plane parked on a hot tarmac somewhere with the APU running, full of passengers and no air-conditioning. Even if we accept that the aircraft were flying, the INMARSAT data is untested theory. The plane could have gone anywhere, anything could have happened to it, and all that exists is a very untested THEORY based on 7 blips, -- NOT FACT.

Yes, I agree that other variables may come into play, but I would think that even with all the variables you mention (which certainly could be valid) that the pings wouldn’t show the plane moving steadily in any direction if it was sitting in one spot.

I can see that the variables may change the distance that the plane was away from the satellite when the pings were recorded, and maybe even the direction that it was flying. But it just doesn’t make sense to me that the variables would make the pings appear to move steadily along a path if the plane was sitting in one spot.

It seems to me that if the plane was in one spot, the variables may make the pings erratic or fluctuating, but I would think they would be roughly centred around one area … not moving away on a steady path.

:dunno: JMO