Was BR involved? #2

[lawstudent]

One thing that has always bothered me about Burke's interviews is that it doesn't seem like he was experiencing fear.

This is odd to me since there was someone that just broke in and killed his sisterand could kill him at any point.

Also even odder, if his parents killed John and molested his sister..why would he not feel fear toward them. They could molest and hurt him as well.

Unless of course, Burke knew fully well that his parents never intentionally killed Jonbenet. Or Burke is the killer himself.

I don't find it that weird. Children and teens can come across as creepily unemotional. Not all, but a good portion. It also depends on what he was told and his personality and all that. When I was very young, a classmate told me about being sexually abused by a family member. I reported it when I went home and it was investigated, but then I was annoyed that I wasn't allowed back over that child's house. It never occurred to me that I would be in danger, or that the classmate would be from my disclosure, or that such a thing could happen in my house. I knew it wasn't right, but it was all too bizarre to process.

 

[bettybaby00]

From the thread you linked Patsy Answers Questions About Burke:."

TOM HANEY: "Could it have been an accident?"
PATSY RAMSEY: "I -- don't know." moo

Interesting spontaneous response. Right up there with ...IIRC

'I didn't kill my baby.'

ETA: my c&p left your :moo: and the quote is not a :moo:

:lol:​

 

[THE BUNK]

I don't find it that weird. Children and teens can come across as creepily unemotional. Not all, but a good portion. It also depends on what he was told and his personality and all that. When I was very young, a classmate told me about being sexually abused by a family member. I reported it when I went home and it was investigated, but then I was annoyed that I wasn't allowed back over that child's house. It never occurred to me that I would be in danger, or that the classmate would be from my disclosure, or that such a thing could happen in my house. I knew it wasn't right, but it was all too bizarre to process.

Teens sure. Pre-Teens and children under 12?

Your example involves abuse, not murder. And sexual abuse by a family member. Sexual abuse may have been considered standard activity by a child.

 

[lawstudent]

Teens sure. Pre-Teens and children under 12?

Your example involves abuse, not murder. And sexual abuse by a family member. Sexual abuse may have been considered standard activity by a child.

I don't really understand what you mean. I know the child experiencing the sexual abuse may be nonreactive because it was the 'norm', sadly. But I'm saying that as a young child, I heard what this classmate said, and I had no experience whatsoever with sexual abuse. It was not a standard activity to me. Yet I did not react with horror, fear, worry it would happen to me - I kind of jokingly told my parents I'd been told a "very bad secret" that I should not talk about. Then I wanted to go back there. Maybe it would have been different had it been my sibling, but I don't remember having very developed emotions as a young child. Some do, some don't. Some kids are very perceptive like little adults. Others kind of just live in the moment without much reflection.

 

[bettybaby00]

e:

Teens sure. Pre-Teens and children under 12?

Your example involves abuse, not murder. And sexual abuse by a family member. Sexual abuse may have been considered standard activity by a child.

Yea his behavior/reaction skewed "hinky" and I use that term purposely. Way too much chaos in the house that morning for ANY 9YO to not have reacted in some way. Pfffffft.

 

[bettybaby00]

Came upon this post when someone linked an older thread and the BBM stood out.

Perfect Murder Perfect Town, Excerpt
During a conversation between John Ramsey and Detective Arndt on the morning of December 26, Ramsey said that the family arrived home at about 10:00 P.M. Christmas night. Ramsey parked their Jeep Cherokee next to their Jaguar in the garage, he said. According to a police report, he carried JonBenét, who was still asleep, upstairs to her room, where he took her shoes off and read to her. Patsy undressed her, remembered singing a bedtime song to her while she slept, and kissed her good night. Meanwhile, Burke was downstairs playing with a model he’d gotten for Christmas and didn’t want to go to bed. John helped his son finish what he was doing and then took him upstairs and put him to bed before he himself retired

So did he really go to sleep? Or did he possibly lay in bed for a short while, and then get up and get JB after the parents went upstairs?

When close in age, most kids will often seek out their sibling in these types of circumstances. I noticed my daughter--who is 3 1/2 yrs older than her brother--would do this. Before her brother was born, she would always come into our room as soon as she woke up and get in bed with us, and I soon became very adept at using the remote to put on Seasame Street while barely awake so we could sleep just a little while longer. As soon as my son was old enough, she stopped coming into our room, preferring instead to head straight for her brother's, especially on christmas morning as well as Easter. Could this be what happened that night? Did Burke stay awake until the coast was clear, and get JonBenet with the intent to get a snack, or to possibly to investigate those wrapped presents in the basement? I've always believed he could easily lure her down there by simply saying, "pssst, Santa left more presents in the basement."

IDK, just a thought that popped into my head when I read this.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Came upon this post when someone linked an older thread and the BBM stood out.


So did he really go to sleep? Or did he possibly lay in bed for a short while, and then get up and get JB after the parents went upstairs?

When close in age, most kids will often seek out their sibling in these types of circumstances. I noticed my daughter--who is 3 1/2 yrs older than her brother--would do this. Before her brother was born, she would always come into our room as soon as she woke up and get in bed with us, and I soon became very adept at using the remote to put on Seasame Street while barely awake so we could sleep just a little while longer. As soon as my son was old enough, she stopped coming into our room, preferring instead to head straight for her brother's, especially on christmas morning as well as Easter. Could this be what happened that night? Did Burke stay awake until the coast was clear, and get JonBenet with the intent to get a snack, or to possibly to investigate those wrapped presents in the basement? I've always believed he could easily lure her down there by simply saying, "pssst, Santa left more presents in the basement."

IDK, just a thought that popped into my head when I read this.

everyone reads & sings to a child that's sound asleep? Eyeroll...

Please!


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[questfortrue]

Came upon this post when someone linked an older thread and the BBM stood out.


So did he really go to sleep? Or did he possibly lay in bed for a short while, and then get up and get JB after the parents went upstairs?

When close in age, most kids will often seek out their sibling in these types of circumstances. I noticed my daughter--who is 3 1/2 yrs older than her brother--would do this. Before her brother was born, she would always come into our room as soon as she woke up and get in bed with us, and I soon became very adept at using the remote to put on Seasame Street while barely awake so we could sleep just a little while longer. As soon as my son was old enough, she stopped coming into our room, preferring instead to head straight for her brother's, especially on christmas morning as well as Easter. Could this be what happened that night? Did Burke stay awake until the coast was clear, and get JonBenet with the intent to get a snack, or to possibly to investigate those wrapped presents in the basement? I've always believed he could easily lure her down there by simply saying, "pssst, Santa left more presents in the basement."

IDK, just a thought that popped into my head when I read this.

Interesting the quote you reference mentions the lego garage/robot garage. (As usual, Cynic comes through with the research. Post http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...et-Ramsey-Investigation&p=8176347#post8176347 regarding how it was described.) Couple years ago KK from FFJ found that toy partially torn open in a photo in the basement. So, ok, maybe BR got two lego/robot garages – one for Christmas and one still partially wrapped In the basement meant for his birthday. That’s all I can figure. Imitating Linda7nj eyeroll. moo

 

[bettybaby00]

Interesting the quote you reference mentions the lego garage/robot garage. (As usual, Cynic comes through with the research. Post http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...et-Ramsey-Investigation&p=8176347#post8176347 regarding how it was described.) Couple years ago KK from FFJ found that toy partially torn open in a photo in the basement. So, ok, maybe BR got two lego/robot garages – one for Christmas and one still partially wrapped In the basement meant for his birthday. That’s all I can figure. Imitating Linda7nj eyeroll. moo

Interesting....

Actually, there are three inconsistent versions that I’m aware of:

TT: Okay. (inaudible) Let’s go back to the 25th, sorry about that. Get home about nine, nine-fifteenish, Burke’s downstairs playing; do you remember what kind of toy that was?
JR: Oh, it was a little thing that kind of unfolded, and it was like car ramp or something and then it folded all back together and it made something else.
TT: Was it like (inaudible) . . .Was it like putting stickers on it?
JR: Well, it was a plastic thing he had to assemble and he had some stickers too, and uh, he was intent on getting it done before he went to bed, so . . .
TT: Did you help Burke get into his pajamas that night?
JR: Yeah, like I do every night.
LE interview, 1997

Meanwhile, I went downstairs to try to get Burke to come up to bed, but he was deeply involved in assembling the miniature parking garage he had received that morning. I could tell he wasn’t going to go to bed until the project was finished, so I settled down on the floor beside him. Helping him complete what his mind was focused on was the best way to get us both in bed quickly.
Death of Innocence (2000,) John and Patsy Ramsey, page 11

"Burke plays downstairs in the living room by the Christmas tree. He's trying to assemble a mechanical robot made of the Legos he got for Christmas, so I sit down on the floor to help him put it together, but it's way too complicated for tonight."
The Other Side of Suffering (2012,) John Ramsey, page 7

So did they finish assembling the toy? He once again gives conflicting statements--joins in the eye rolling party--even in the books which clearly have an uncontested "we're innocent intent."


If they didn't finish, despite BRs strong desire to do so, it becomes even more plausible to imagine him sneaking back down stairs.

Does anyone know why they seemed intent on whether or not the toy had stickers?

It's interesting to note that John insists he read to a sleeping JB while Patsy states she was singing to JB. Her version is believable in the sense that it's easy to imagine a mother unconsciously humming or singing to a sleeping child. Grabbing a book, and opening it up to begin to read to a sleeping kid, not so much.

 

[GoBrewers]

I don't need a flashlight now days, i've got the app on my cell phone.

 

[bettybaby00]

I don't need a flashlight now days, i've got the app on my cell phone.

:giggle:

 

[Venom]

*Joining in the eye rolling party here*
Some quick thoughts that come to mind, and this is all speculation. Could BR have snuck downstairs and started working on the garage/robot toy and JBR have come along and done something to mess up the toy? I mean like taking a part and running off with it, knocking a piece off of it either deliberately or accidently and that started a fight? Maybe a sticker to the toy was found in a damning place at the crime scene (it could be some of the evidence that hasn't been leaked)
Again, just speculation and moo.

 

[ukrberserker23]

All these stories were put out by the Ramseys to paint the picture, " Look, we are the perfect, well-to-do, loving parents. We couldn't possibly have raped and murdered our daughter."

 

[Mama2JML]

Interesting....




So did they finish assembling the toy? He once again gives conflicting statements--joins in the eye rolling party--even in the books which clearly have an uncontested "we're innocent intent."


If they didn't finish, despite BRs strong desire to do so, it becomes even more plausible to imagine him sneaking back down stairs.

Does anyone know why they seemed intent on whether or not the toy had stickers?

It's interesting to note that John insists he read to a sleeping JB [/i]while Patsy states she was singing to JB. Her version is believable in the sense that it's easy to imagine a mother unconsciously humming or singing to a sleeping child. Grabbing a book, and opening it up to begin to read to a sleeping kid, not so much.

BBM

JR didn't "insist he read to a sleeping JB." He read a book, in his bed, before falling asleep. ...didn't read to JonBenét.

 

[THE BUNK]

JR didn't "insist he read to a sleeping JB." He read a book, in his bed, before falling asleep. ...didn't read to JonBenét.

What was the book? Did he mention it or produce the book that was read? ( I really hope the police asked this question.)

 

[Mama2JML]

What was the book? Did he mention it or produce the book that was read? ( I really hope the police asked this question.)

From JR's 04.30.97 interview w/the BPD:

"TT: Okay. You brushed your teeth and you go get in bed, what book were you reading that night?

JR: I don’t remember. Uh, I had been reading Shadow of the Mood, I don’t know if I picked that one up or not, but I don’t remember which one it was, I don’t read them for very long."​

 

[Mama2JML]

Shadow of the Moon by M.M. Kaye:
http://www.worldcat.org/title/shadow-of-the-moon/oclc/3635517

 

[bettybaby00]

Both Thomas and Kolar recount that JR told the responding officer that he read to JonBenet. I don't have PMPT, but it's likely there as well considering it was a statement he made that morning when police first arrived. This is another example of his/their ever changing stories. In this instance the realization that reading to a sleeping child sounds pretty illogical likely led to the change in the narrative.

 

[Linda7NJ]

Interesting....




So did they finish assembling the toy? He once again gives conflicting statements--joins in the eye rolling party--even in the books which clearly have an uncontested "we're innocent intent."


If they didn't finish, despite BRs strong desire to do so, it becomes even more plausible to imagine him sneaking back down stairs.

Does anyone know why they seemed intent on whether or not the toy had stickers?

It's interesting to note that John insists he read to a sleeping JB while Patsy states she was singing to JB. Her version is believable in the sense that it's easy to imagine a mother unconsciously humming or singing to a sleeping child. Grabbing a book, and opening it up to begin to read to a sleeping kid, not so much.

I think singing & reading to your child at bedtime is the norm in many households. I sang and read to my own until he was able to figure out that I can't carry a tune... Then I just read. lol

I don't believe either Ramsey had any such bedtime routine. IMO those children were left to fend for themselves far too often and too...dare I say, they are too slovenly ...for me to ever believe they had a bedtime ritual.

IMO the reading and singing and John claiming involvement in the bedtime activities is all a facade. The devils always in the minute details ...they've told too many versions for me to believe a word of it to be true. They wanted to paint this lovely picture of an ideal family...

They attempted to skip all the really important details...by lying and saying JonBenet went straight to bed. again, we have the adult Ramsey's version "she was zonked out" and Burkes "she walked in...that proves to me... Everything that follows is a LIE.

And again...when the Ramsey's claimed Burke wasn't up that morning, only to concede he was indeed awake YEARS later.

The whole story they told is a big steaming pile.




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[Linda7NJ]

All these stories were put out by the Ramseys to paint the picture, " Look, we are the perfect, well-to-do, loving parents. We couldn't possibly have raped and murdered our daughter."

Welcome to Websleuths!!!

I agree!


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