Malaysia Flight MH17 shot down in Ukraine. 298 aboard. 7/17/2014 - #3

[SouthAussie]

It has been suggested that the Dutch PM Rutte and the Australian PM Abbot are playing Good Cop, Bad Cop.
Rutte is the good cop, because that is all the situation allows for this moment.
Abbot is the bad cop who does not care about Putin and Russia, he can shout his heart out - but is it happening?

Keep your eye on the ball, and the two FM's who are travelling the world together.

I don't understand Abbott at the best of times. It isn't that Australia is sending troops that bothers me. I do think the AFP has a legitimate role (assuming the relevant parties agree), and that the Australian military has a role in protecting them. But I'm genuinely scared by Abbott and the govt's rhetoric. This hard-line stance is the same that they've taken with refugees, which I'm opposed to. Why are Abbott and Bishop being so tough? I don't believe they had to take this approach to get Australian victims home. I just see them using this situation to win support in Australia, but I'm worried about how this is going to play out in Eastern Ukraine of all places. I'm worried for our members of the AFP and the military. And I'm worried about what Australia is dragging itself into.

I tend to lean towards ZaZara's suggestion of a good cop/bad cop scenario at this point. The Dutch and the Australian reps are travelling together, and speaking at the same venues. The Dutch taking the softly, softly approach .. the Aussies loudly reminding all that there is military back-up at the ready. We are a country and people far removed from Europe, we can afford to be the bad cop.

Julie Bishop was saying earlier that SAS could be there this weekend, but they are not there ... although they are, no doubt, close by in case we are needed to get investigators out imo. The rebels are allowing more freedom at the crash site, they are speaking more sensibly with the OSCE. Looted items are mysteriously reappearing. Fatima's parents were even given access to the site to lay flowers and ruminate. Things are happening very slowly, very carefully, but step by step.

 

[2rose]

Grief-stricken Dutch man @93 dies days after losing family of 4 in MH17 crash

http://wireupdate.com/dutch-man-93-dies-days-after-losing-family-in-mh17-crash.html

 

[kimi_SFC]

Tweet from @SBSNews - 2h

Parents of Australian #MH17 victim have laid a bouquet of flowers at the crash site
http://t.co/NzIWIDnf07

http://t.co/DTkGVsvr9e

http://twitter.com/SBSNews/status/493155774592335873


Full Story:

Grieving Aussie couple visits crash site | SBS News

(snip)

Foreign Minister Julie Bishop on Saturday was asked what concerns she had for families attempting to visit the crash site, where up to 39 Australian citizens and residents had died.

"The Dutch government, and we agree with this, believe it would be very ill-advised to go to the site," Ms Bishop told reporters.

"This is still in the middle of a war zone. There are heavily armed separatists who are engaged in conflict with Ukraine military and the separatists are around the crash site."

The foreign minister added that the area was meant to be a crash-investigation site.

"We have to give the investigators every opportunity to find evidence in its place.

"So, as much as the families want to go there, we would ask that the(y) allow us to carry out the investigation and enable them to travel there when it's safe.

"There could be nothing more tragic than if something were to go wrong because they want onto the site too early."


More@Link
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/07/27/grieving-aussie-couple-visits-crash-site


:rose:
:cry:

ETA: Corrected typo in the OP - text brought over verbatim from sbs.com :blushing:

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[panthera]

Here you can find a description of the identification process:

http://www.politie.nl/en/subjects/-...-and-caution-are-of-paramount-importance.html

And the FAQ's, in English too:

http://www.politie.nl/en/subjects/qa-flight-mh17.html


:rose:

Thank you. An arduous task indeed, made even harder by the looting which took place at the crash site. At least the people in the Netherlands are compassionate and "giving these victims back their names" says it all.

 

[SouthAussie]

.
A lot is happening behind the scene ....

The Netherlands is planning to send 60 officers and said troops had been consigned to barracks and had leave cancelled ahead of the planned mission.

AAP understands more than 100 Australian Federal Police (AFP) officers flew into Kharkiv on Saturday.

Some are believed to have gone in on the RAAF C17 Globemaster that has been used to shuttle bodies back to the Netherlands for identification.

Abbott later on Saturday discussed plans with Russian President Vladimir Putin for 'an independent and objective international inquiry', the Kremlin said in a statement.

http://www.skynews.com.au/news/national/2014/07/27/dutch--australia-ready-force-for-mh17-site.html

 

[SouthAussie]

.
The pressure is being applied on many levels.

In Brussels, the European Union punished Russia -- which it accuses of abetting the insurgency by arming the rebels -- with new sanctions on its intelligence chiefs.

Moscow angrily blasted the move as "irresponsible" and warned it put at risk cooperation on security issues.

http://news.yahoo.com/dutch-australians-ready-mh17-forces-amid-ukraine-fighting-101855772.html

 

[geevee]

Moscow is threatening...

Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 crash: Russia says it will end terror pact with EU

Moscow warned yesterday that security ties with the European Union could be cut following the fresh round of international sanctions announced last week, while in Ukraine the last bodies removed from the MH17 crash site have been flown back to the Netherlands.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-it-will-end-terror-pact-with-eu-9630861.html

 

[panthera]

.
The pressure is being applied on many levels.



http://news.yahoo.com/dutch-australians-ready-mh17-forces-amid-ukraine-fighting-101855772.html

The EU has every right to fault Russia if the government supplied or knew of the supply of weapons/missiles to the insurgents. The reaction from Moscow is not surprising, however.

MOO

 

[BJsleuth]

Angus Houston says MH17 will be a police operation not a military one.

http://m.heraldsun.com.au/news/brea...002939031?nk=333357e59ef760636e2f607cf3a0a027

 

[dotr]

http://thepeninsulaqatar.com/news/a...ms-to-discuss-full-access-to-plane-crash-site
bbm

"The European Union reached an outline agreement on Friday to impose the first economic sanctions on Russia over its annexation of Ukraine’s Crimea peninsula in March and suspicions that it is actively involved in destabilising eastern Ukraine.

The 28-nation EU also imposed travel bans and asset freezes on Russian intelligence chiefs and other officials accused of undermining Ukraine’s sovereignty.

One official added to the list, Alexander Tkachyov, the governor of Russia’s southern Krasnodar region, said he had no regrets about any action he had taken. He said the West was “settling scores” for the success of the Winter Olympics at Sochi in his region in February."

 

[SouthAussie]

http://thepeninsulaqatar.com/news/a...ms-to-discuss-full-access-to-plane-crash-site


"The European Union reached an outline agreement on Friday to impose the first economic sanctions on Russia over its annexation of Ukraine’s Crimea peninsula in March and suspicions that it is actively involved in destabilising eastern Ukraine.

The 28-nation EU also imposed travel bans and asset freezes on Russian intelligence chiefs and other officials accused of undermining Ukraine’s sovereignty.

One official added to the list, Alexander Tkachyov, the governor of Russia’s southern Krasnodar region, said he had no regrets about any action he had taken. He said the West was “settling scores” for the success of the Winter Olympics at Sochi in his region in February."

BBM Yep ... we usually get upset when the non-political Olympic Games are a great success anywhere else but the west. It has nothing to do with the war and the attempt to shift borders, or the tight restrictions at the crash site which are delaying our search and rescue of more remains. :facepalm:


ETA: I have, however, noticed that there have been attempts to pull the FIFA 2018 World Cup competition from Russia - but FIFA are insisting that world sporting competitions can often help open communications and break down barriers, so have rejected the attempts so far.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-...cking-Down-From-Awarding-2018-Games-to-Russia
http://www.espnfc.com/fifa-world-cu...ts-calls-to-strip-russia-of-world-cup-in-2018

 

[Donamena]

Every crazy thing going on in the world & he says we are just 'settling scores'
Where would I begin????

 

[BJsleuth]

BBM Yep ... we usually get upset when the non-political Olympic Games are a great success anywhere else but the west. It has nothing to do with the war and the attempt to shift borders, or the tight restrictions at the crash site which are delaying our search and rescue of more remains. :facepalm:

RSBM

They're not helping themselves sprouting these things. :banghead:

 

[Dr. Know?]

Hands down, windmill in the backyard and solar panels here. AZ

 

[Dr. Know?]

Okay, the US, per OB let the pro-Russian seperatists off by saying it was a mistake to shoot down MH17? Were they to shoot down Putin in his similar plane, hmmm? Guess as a US citizen I'm not privy to war stratigies. Okay, okay...got it.

Fracking isn't in my town. I've read many places where it's happened though.

Need to read more. jmo

(US provides W. Europe with gas, somehow...) asta Pukin. jmo

Sounds like 2018, possibly sooner. jmo

 

[Dr. Know?]

I have to say, today, I got really po'd about all of this. I've cried with many and for many.

 

[kimi_SFC]

I have to say, today, I got really po'd about all of this. I've cried with many and for many.

:hug:

You weren't alone.....


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[dotr]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28492474

"The Pentagon said on Friday that it had evidence to suggest Russia is preparing to transfer more rocket launcher systems to the rebels.

"We have indications that the Russians intend to supply heavier and more sophisticated multiple-launch rocket systems in the very near future," Col Steve Warren, a Pentagon spokesman, said on Friday.

On Thursday, a US state department spokesperson said there was also evidence Russian troops were firing on Ukrainian soldiers from within Russia.

But in a statement, Russia's foreign ministry said the US was pushing "anti-Russian cliches" to protect their allies in Kiev by obscuring the "real reasons for events in Ukraine".

The BBC's Sarah Rainsford in Moscow says that amid all the accusations of war-mongering, it seems Russia is keen to stress that so far, it has actually shown restraint."

 

[SouthAussie]

Eugene Lukovkin, a 30-year-old separatist gunman, was disposing of his grandmother’s rubbish when he saw bodies "falling like bullets".

But Lukovkin says he relaxed quickly, on realizing that it was a civilian aircraft.
“It’s a unique sound. It’s dumb, flat if it is civilian. It’s ching-ching if it’s military.”

Nine days later the cockpit is identifiable by electronics spewing from a contorted mess of debris; three of the document satchels preferred by pilots ….. And a few metres away from the cockpit, there’s a document marked “corporate safety oversight,” on which the heading reads: “A hazard or an accident – report immediately to Malaysia Airways".

Instead of loading up to attack Kiev, Lukovkin reserves his strongest condemnation for Malaysia Airways and any others who had a hand in sending the flight through this corridor.

“I feel so sorry for the dead, I don’t have words to express it. I wish the people who shot it down were here to see the suffering; the kids that we saw here – dead.”

“There was multiple looting. I’d put them up against a wall and shoot them. In the forest near here, there was the body of a woman. On the Thursday evening she had rings and jewelry; on Friday morning she had none.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/sniper-...-into-field-20140727-zxb4m.html#ixzz38diXUULa

 

[kimi_SFC]

This report from the UK's Mirror was posted 5 hours ago.... I'm not sure what to make of it, but I'm incensed at first blush! :moo:



David Cameron and the Russian diplomat link to Vladimir Putin spies
26 July 2014 11:47 PM
By Vincent Moss
Sergey Nalobin has joined mega-rich Tory donors hobnobbing with the PM and Cabinet ministers at glittering party fundraisers, we can reveal

(snip)

The PM has been under fire over donations from wealthy Russians after he called for sanctions against Putin’s cronies following the crash which claimed the lives of all 298 people on board including 10 Brits.

Now, Mr Cameron faces fresh questions over the relationship between senior Tories and Mr Nalobin and his connections to Russian spies.

(snip)

Mr Nalobin’s father, Nikolia Nalobin, was a top-ranking officer in the FSB, the successor to the Soviet KGB. He was also the boss of murdered Russian dissident and ex-spy Alexander Litvinenko in the 1990s.

According to Russian press reports, Mr Nalobin’s brother also worked for the FSB, an organisation headed by Putin before he became president in 2000.

Tory sources have confirmed Sergey Nalobin – who has been pictured with Boris Johnson – joined party grandees at fundraising events in 2012 and 2013.

A Conservative source said: “Sergey Nalobin is a canny operator. His job has been to rebuild relationships with senior government figures in the UK after the death of Litvinenko.”

(snip)
The fundraising events attended by Mr Nalobin are now at the centre of a political furore over the Russian oligarchs who made billions under Putin and are helping bankroll the Tories.

Labour MP Chris Bryant condemned the PM for using the Foreign Office to vet possible Putin cronies and accused Mr Cameron of being “weak” on Russia.

MuchMore@Link
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/david-cameron-russian-diplomat-link-3919887



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