GUILTY NH - Abby Hernandez, 14, North Conway, 9 Oct 2013 - #15

[Orgona]

okay. I can make a lot of leaps but that sketch looks nothing like kibby and he is not dark skinned in addition to being tall and thin. That sketch is clearly an entirely different person.

I'm happy with those two very distinct features on the sketch, you're not. Fair enough.
IMO most white people in dim light can appear to have darker skin than they have. Eyes under the same conditions can appear to be darker too. We have no idea under which conditions he kept her.

 

[LookingHoping]

I'm getting annoyed reading the past couple of pages and the statements about her giving false info or LE lying so hopping in here quickly with my opinion on the sketch.



NK is darker skinned than AH (looks it to me)… So they have a very fragile young lady and they ask about skin color…they then help by saying, same as yours, lighter skinned or darker skinned? "Darker skinned." See how this could have easily gone? And looking up at him his face (bending neck down) would be wider, chin thicker. I'm with the others here, the sketch is good. Hairline, eyebrows, even chin shape, ears… a match. Prominent features match and even though the nose on the sketch is etchasketch-like NK's nose is all sorts of hmmm… how do you describe that, especially a kid. (If you look back in the last thread there is a post with MANY photos of NK, note the eye coloring. I posted about it, he seems to have those chameleon eyes that change color Clearly look brown in a couple of the shots)

In the end, the key is they have the person they believe did this in the orange suit behind bars…they have a million dollar cash bail on him (big reason for those beliefs I'm sure).

 

[tezi]

This victim bashing is getting really old.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Testing to see if this posting of Radichio77885's diagram is more readable...

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

For those worried about victim-bashing, this bears repeating:

By the way, while the description that Hernandez provided is demonstrably false (e.g., she described the subject, presumably Kibby, as having "dark brown eyes"; Kibby has blue eyes), that does not necessarily mean that Hernandez intended to provided a false description.

This is well said; saying a description is ‘demonstrably false’ is not of necessity a moral indictment on the victim. Victims can sometimes give a ‘false’ description or one that doesn't match the eventual suspect for many reasons that are not speaking ill of the victim (victim-bashing):

• She might not have not gotten a good look at her kidnapper for reasons we are not privy to, yet (and there is a lot we do not know yet)

• A victim can conceivably be mentally traumatized to the degree that she forgets or blocks the memory of his face (and/or other physical characteristics)

• A victim might be threatened by a perp who lets her live, and fear reprisals by him or those he knows if she offers up an accurate description (this would be a case of intentional but not morally blameworthy false description).

 

[LookingHoping]

Testing to see if this posting of Radichio77885's diagram is more readable...

Where does this sketch originate, did you do this Radichio or was it something in MSM?

 

[Salem]

-- "[W]e ask that [non-verified persons] refrain from answering questions that are specifically directed to those that have been verified as specialist in their area[.]"

When does a question qualify as one "specifically directed" to verified specialists? Must the question state that it is directed to verified specialists?

-- "If a member wants to post as a professional ( [e.g.,] a lawyer[]... ) ... then [he or she] must email us ... [t]he case." "In the subject line please put ... [the] case you are asking to be verified on."

What constitutes a "case" -- is it synonymous with (a) a "thread" (or series of threads) or (b) a person (e.g., Abigail Hernandez). Let's say, for example, that because I wish to state my occupation when discussing Abigail Hernandez, I apply to post as a lawyer and identify the Abigail Hernandez case. If I go to the Maura Murray thread and, in a post observing the similarities between the disappearance of Maura Murray and that of Abigail Hernandez, I state that I am a lawyer, under the first definition of a case (a thread), I have violated the rule; I am not a lawyer for purposes of the Maura Murray thread. In contrast, applying the second definition, I have not violated the rule because my status as a "lawyer" is attached to "Abigail Hernandez" and not any specific a thread.

In short: when is a question "specifically directed" to verified specialists and does "verified" status attach to pages on this site or to persons mentioned on this site?

Thanks very much.

O/T for others in Abby's thread.

A case may be 1 thread, several threads or a subforum all related to the particular missing person, crime, or perp.

You may request verification as a professional, in general. If you do, and you are verified, you may then post with some authority in any thread when addressing questions directed at your profession.

OR

You my request verification as a local, or professional related to only one case. In which case, you would be limited to that case.

If you have further questions, please send an email to wsverify@xmission.com.

Thanks,

Salem

 

[Minette]

So, you know, I was once mugged, had my purse snatched, was knocked to the ground, etc. and met with a sketch artist to come up with a description of the guy. I had a better description of his car than the guy himself even though I only saw the car from a distance and I saw the guy really up close as I tried to fight back, but I gave the best description I could and you know what? I doubt it ended up looking anything like him. He was never caught, at any rate. There is just something about being the victim of trauma that plays havoc with your memory.

 

[newguy123]

I'm thinking that if I was asked to describe people I'd have trouble doing so.....but show me a picture of someone and I could say "Yes, that's the guy!" Wondering if something that simple could have happened here? Even if the sketch is not dead one accurate, it might have been the best under very trying circumstances.
The idea of not recognizing the perp but in addressing Abby in the press conferences makes sense to me and is an angle I never thought of before.....so thanks to those who opened my mind to more thoughts! I do believe that Zenya said at some point after Abby returned that so far they had followed what LE advised them to do, and they would continue to do so....so I'm guessing until trial, we won't know exactly what was known or unknown at the time
One other thing.....if she was in the container and saw occasional newspapers, she would have known she was not too far from home. However, this would not tell her exactly where she was or who the guy was. He may have called himself "Joe" for all we know. I doubt she would have come out of confinement and walked home and said "Mom, I've been in a shipping container for 9 months at the home of NK in Gorham." There must have been lots of pieces to a puzzle to assemble for her with LE help.

 

[Coquette]

Abby's courage, her willingness to cooperate, the defiant looks she gave Kibby in the courtroom, to me speak volumes and dispel any notion that she was a willing participant, did not cooperate or was otherwise complicit in this god-awful crime.

In your opinion... Nothing dispels any such notion for me. Remember, this is all subjective and thus far we have not seen, read or been presented with all of the facts. I choose to refrain from coming to any conclusion at this point., but do appreciate that this kind of case can be very triggering for some.

 

[Fireweed]

I have not seen any victim bashing in this thread. I have seen an analysis of the facts that is in perfect harmony with respect to the victim.

 

[Coquette]

This victim bashing is getting really old.

I haven't seen any victim bashing here. I have only seen rational questioning and objective observations. They might not be in keeping with any one person's view point, but they are equally valid all the same.

 

[Fireweed]

I'm happy with those two very distinct features on the sketch, you're not. Fair enough.
IMO most white people in dim light can appear to have darker skin than they have. Eyes under the same conditions can appear to be darker too. We have no idea under which conditions he kept her.

Fair enough, but you actually just proved my point then. That sketch looks nothing like Kibby and in fact looks like a completely different person. I makes no claims as to why that is so, but you yourself just came up with a really good explanation.

 

[Fireweed]

I haven't seen any victim bashing here. I have only seen rational questioning and objective observations. They might not be in keeping with any one person's view point, but they are equally valid all the same.

Apparently something here is "victim bashing" and I am still not certain what exactly it is, but obviously the claim that there is "victim bashing" going on here resonates with a lot of posters, and personally I would just like to know what it is.

I strongly suspect that it is something like not agreeing that the sketch looks like the suspect. I guess if you think that a light-skinned, 6'1", medium build white man with blue eyes does not look like a short, overweight, dark-skinned man with brown eyes, you are just a mean person who is bashing the victim. I am about ready to give up.

 

[LookingHoping]

Apparently something here is "victim bashing" and I am still not certain what exactly it is, but obviously the claim that there is "victim bashing" going on here resonates with a lot of posters, and personally I would just like to know what it is.

(snippedbyme, as I'm responding only to this part of your post)

It is against TOS to post quotes of anything against TOS. Therefore, I will simply state that I personally have no issue with differing opinions about a sketch or what a legal term means, etc. I highly doubt that others who are worried about maintaining the victim-friendly manner, in which this site prides itself upon operating, have any issue with disagreement on these items, either…but that is just my opinion, guess, stab in the dark.

 

[Coquette]

I'd like to know what this victim bashing is as well. One can intelligently question something, or even someone, and it does not qualify as "bashing." The sketch does not match, nor does the description. This could be for several reasons. And regardless of how this young girl came into this man's company ( and we do not know this yet) as she is a minor - the law is against him. I appreciate this. That said, at this time I am not convinced of anything further save for the fact that she is safely home now and he is in jail. The rest is a mystery that has yet to be solved, IMO.

 

[Fireweed]

It is against TOS to post quotes of anything against TOS. Therefore, I will simply state that I personally have no issue with differing opinions about a sketch or what a legal term means, etc. I highly doubt that others who are worried about maintaining the victim-friendly manner, in which this site prides itself upon operating, have any issue with disagreement on these items, either…but that is just my opinion, guess, stab in the dark.

Alright, I do not see anything in this thread that is victim-bashing, but it seems pretty clear to me that a lot people do. I really just want to know what it is that people think is victim-bashing. I mean that it total seriousness and without any facetiousness or sarcasm. Clearly there is something in this thread that is victim-bashing. For the love of all that is good and holy, will someone please just tell me what that is.

 

[Kuifje]

I have thought of that. One thing that strikes me about Abby is how completely different she can look depending on the photo and the angle. She looks like a different person in almost every picture I see of her.

There's simple explanation for that: She's one of the few people that is okay with people taking pictures of her while she is being herself.

So many people this day and age are so very aware of any lens pointing at them, and if there is one, they will do the 'cheese' thing.

On the one hand it's very understandable, as pictures tend to show up on the internet very quickly, for all to see.
On the other hand, and in my opinion, it's simply a sign of insecurity...

 

[Fireweed]

There's simple explanation for that: She's one of the few people that is okay with people taking pictures of her while she is being herself.

So many people this day and age are so very aware of any lens pointing at them, and if there is one, they will do the 'cheese' thing.

On the one hand it's very understandable, as pictures tend to show up on the internet very quickly, for all to see.
On the other hand, and in my opinion, it's simply a sign of insecurity...

I did not mean it in a negative way at all; it was just an observation. I have been accused of the same thing actually. I always look different in photos.

I thought that one thing that was going on was that Abby was in the transition from childhood to adulthood, and I have always noticed that a girl during that time can look very, very different from moment to moment. My thinking was that if someone saw Abby during the nine months she was gone, they may not have recognized her. Look, I have been following this case from the beginning, but if I saw Abby as she appeared at the arraignment, I really do not think I would have recognized her at all.

 

[Radichio77885]

Where does this sketch originate, did you do this Radichio or was it something in MSM?

It is a consolidated "rough sketch" that I made from the plethora of photo's published by MSM. As a visual person, I automatically start doing diagrams like this when photos are plentiful to assist with orienting and approximating. While looking at it, it occurred to me that others might find it helpful as well.

(NOTE: Zoom lenses on cameras can distort distances, but the mobile home and container dimensions are in scale and proportionally accurate.)