The Suitcase - Duvet, Sham & Dr. Suess

[Anyhoo]

How do you substantiate your claims about the suitcase?

I don't substantiate them and won't be doing so. Instead, I offer you a theory that explains everything. The suitcase is just one of the many false clues that were purposely planted in this case. Did you ever wonder about the contents of the suitcase? If not, you should have. But I want to go beyond the suitcase now and say that all of the clues found at the Ramsey residence were false and contrived, everything except JBR's dead body that is. That was horrifyingly real. It was the only real thing there. The suitcase and its contents is a fraud and anyone trying to understand it as if played any part in the murder is wasting their time.

 

[midwest mama]

I don't substantiate them and won't be doing so. Instead, I offer you a theory that explains everything. The suitcase is just one of the many false clues that were purposely planted in this case. Did you ever wonder about the contents of the suitcase? If not, you should have. But I want to go beyond the suitcase now and say that all of the clues found at the Ramsey residence were false and contrived, everything except JBR's dead body that is. That was horrifyingly real. It was the only real thing there. The suitcase and its contents is a fraud and anyone trying to understand it as if played any part in the murder is wasting their time.

OK, I accept that your statements regarding the suitcase are part of your theory. As such, I understand now that what you post into this forum, on this thread and in others, are your opinions, which we can respect just as we expect others', even if we do not agree.

I have wondered significantly about the contents of the suitcase, and also about the connected and reported fiber evidence, even though it has been somewhat ambiguous. The bulk of this thread deals with the suspicious connection of the contents of the suitcase to this crime, and the significance of same with regard to JB's murder.

I could accept the suitcase and it's contents as more material planted at the suspected crime scene as subterfuge.

 

[Tadpole12]

But why all the lawyers for Johns side of the family? Even ST said there was a 6 hour gap when JAR was supposedly asleep at his moms house( i dont believe one can fly from atl to boulder in that time)

Heyya elannia

fmi

JJ represented the four, and has posted a RMN headline exonerating BR on his profile page.

Police clear adult kids of Ramsey
Half brother, half sister eliminated as suspects in JonBenet's murder
March 7, 1997
http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1997/03/07-1.html

"But when the detectives and spokesperson arrived in Roswell, they learned that John Ramsey had hired Atlanta attorney James Jenkins to represent Me linda and John Andrew, as well as the children's mother, Lucinda Johnson. Jenkins would not allow the Ramsey children or their mother to speak with the officers, McNeill said."

JJ profile
http://www.mjplawyers.com/jenkins.html

defunct link
"Brother Cleared as Suspect in JonBenet Case," Rocky Mountain News, May 21, 1999

Portion of article
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-67483130.html

 

[Teresa]

What is being questioned is your assertion that there is evidence JB was in that suitcase at some point. I have never seen or heard of any evidence that she was. I have seen someone state that it was their opinion that she was. That is altogether different than stating it as evidence.

I don't personally believe she was ever in the suitcase. That is my opinion.

Just saw this... In my opinion Jon Benet could have been in the suitcase. I thought FIBER evidence from the case was on her body. If Jon Benet had been I believe John would have carried it. I'm still new to this case and it's possible I'm incorrect on the evidence. Basing this particular thought process on something I read here. Haven't gotten that far on the candy rose forum. I hate auto correct on the kindle. Tired venting.

 

[UKGuy]

Just saw this... In my opinion Jon Benet could have been in the suitcase. I thought FIBER evidence from the case was on her body. If Jon Benet had been I believe John would have carried it. I'm still new to this case and it's possible I'm incorrect on the evidence. Basing this particular thought process on something I read here. Haven't gotten that far on the candy rose forum. I hate auto correct on the kindle. Tired venting.

Teresa,
The suitcase theory needs to be checked out. i.e. what model of samsonite was it, its dimensions etc. Since over here in the UK a mother has just this week been convicted of culpable homicide of one of her three year old twins. She placed the boy plus bedding into a suitcase and buried it many miles away in a forest.

So although the boy would be smaller and lighter than JonBenet, it serves as a proof of concept. That the suitcase played a role in a prior staging is favorite of mine.

.

 

[UKGuy]

I don't substantiate them and won't be doing so. Instead, I offer you a theory that explains everything. The suitcase is just one of the many false clues that were purposely planted in this case. Did you ever wonder about the contents of the suitcase? If not, you should have. But I want to go beyond the suitcase now and say that all of the clues found at the Ramsey residence were false and contrived, everything except JBR's dead body that is. That was horrifyingly real. It was the only real thing there. The suitcase and its contents is a fraud and anyone trying to understand it as if played any part in the murder is wasting their time.

Anyhoo,
Why so? The suitcase might be part of a prior staging, maybe JonBenet was stuffed into the case, and left abandonded somewhere in the house, e.g. basement, the Dr. Suess book might simply be something an R thought would lend context to the fake crime-scene. There might have been other items which JR removed or relocated.

Considering the suitcase as part of a prior staging can help others understand why the RN was penned and the pink bloodstained nightgown was discarded into the wine-cellar?

.

 

[Anyhoo]

Anyhoo,
Why so? The suitcase might be part of a prior staging, maybe JonBenet was stuffed into the case, and left abandonded somewhere in the house, e.g. basement, the Dr. Suess book might simply be something an R thought would lend context to the fake crime-scene. There might have been other items which JR removed or relocated.

Considering the suitcase as part of a prior staging can help others understand why the RN was penned and the pink bloodstained nightgown was discarded into the wine-cellar?

.

What I say is based upon my own intuitions about the crime, so keep that in mind. I do not think the murder happened at the Ramsey house. I think JBR was murdered elsewhere and then brought to her house where everything was staged to make it appear as if she had been murdered in her house. This suitcase and its contents are just part of that staging. I do not think it has any relation to the murder at all. The RN was penned to purposely draw attention to the R family. Why? Because it is far better for everyone to think one or both of the parents (or BR) murdered their own child than for people to think she was murdered elsewhere by someone else (which is what actually happened). Your attention is meant to go to the family so you won't look somewhere else. No one will ever prove they are guilty of the murder because they are not, however they are well aware of who is.

 

[THE BUNK]

I do not think the murder happened at the Ramsey house

Why would they need to bring her home in the first place if she was murdered elsewhere? Why not dispose of her body someplace and then go home and start the fake kidnapping process? Why risk leaving the evidence of her body in your home.

Remember in this situation the clock starts earlier. They have even more time to stage and have the added benefit of being outside the home. They can wait till everything is done before they return to the home to await the police. They could arrive as late as 3am.

Why? Because it is far better for everyone to think one or both of the parents (or BR) murdered their own child than for people to think she was murdered elsewhere by someone else (which is what actually happened)

Why not write a confession letter from one of the Ramsey's instead? It is not a100% guarantee that the police would believe the ransom note was fake. They could actually believe it was real and con

Contrary to popular belief, just because the Ramseys are the prime suspect doesn't mean the police wouldn't investigate other possibilities. They could still investigate the "real" killer even if they believe the Ramseys are the prime suspect.

Sorry, I am not following your logic on this one.

No one will ever prove they are guilty of the murder because they are not, however they are well aware of who is.

Unless due to fear of prosecution they talk and reveal , which kind of defeats the purpose of framing them. Keep in mind that in a kidnapping scenario, the FBI would be involved. The FBI who could put the Ramseys in witness protection if they lead them to an arrest of a pedo ring. That kind of makes the decision to write a ransom letter counterproductive. Why would you alert the feds if you didn't have to? With a straight up murder or pedophilia all you have is local police. No feds.

 

[DeeDee249]

I've explained a million times why JB couldn't have been in the suitcase- at least after she had died anyway. Wanna see it again? PM me, cause people must be SO tired of seeing the explanation.

 

[Anyhoo]

Why would they need to bring her home in the first place if she was murdered elsewhere?

To conceal where she was murdered and who murdered her and who was present and what was happening there.

Why not dispose of her body someplace and then go home and start the fake kidnapping process?

Because they WANTED to place suspicion on the Ramsey family.

Why risk leaving the evidence of her body in your home.

It wasn't a risk. Regardless of the circumstantial evidence making it appear that someone within the family killed JBR, it could never be proven that they did (because they didn't). Far better for people to be focused on the Ramsey family than to be looking elsewhere. Even though it badly hurt the Ramsey's reputation no one was convicted of anything (or even charged).

Remember in this situation the clock starts earlier. They have even more time to stage and have the added benefit of being outside the home. They can wait till everything is done before they return to the home to await the police.

The clock does not start early. This was not a planned event. It was not intended to happen. This was damage control. No one knew JBR was going to die during this event, but when it happened everyone jumped into action to conceal what really happened.

They could arrive as late as 3am.



Why not write a confession letter from one of the Ramsey's instead?

Their goal was not for the Ramsey's to be convicted of their daughter's murder. Their goal was for everyone's focus and attention to be on the Ramsey's but for them not to be convicted, because the Ramsey's could not be convicted to the public without exposing what was really going on.

It is not a 100% guarantee that the police would believe the ransom note was fake. They could actually believe it was real and con
trary to popular belief, just because the Ramseys are the prime suspect doesn't mean the police wouldn't investigate other possibilities. They could still investigate the "real" killer even if they believe the Ramseys are the prime suspect.

Sorry, I am not following your logic on this one.



Unless due to fear of prosecution they talk and reveal , which kind of defeats the purpose of framing them. Keep in mind that in a kidnapping scenario, the FBI would be involved. The FBI who could put the Ramseys in witness protection if they lead them to an arrest of a pedo ring. That kind of makes the decision to write a ransom letter counterproductive. Why would you alert the feds if you didn't have to? With a straight up murder or pedophilia all you have is local police. No feds.

All I can tell you friend is that it is bigger than what you think. A lot of people worked together to conceal the true nature of this murder. As I have tried to convey, this is much bigger than just the Ramsey family. You may never understand or believe anything I am telling you, but I have answers for all your questions.

 

[Teresa]

Teresa,
The suitcase theory needs to be checked out. i.e. what model of samsonite was it, its dimensions etc. Since over here in the UK a mother has just this week been convicted of culpable homicide of one of her three year old twins. She placed the boy plus bedding into a suitcase and buried it many miles away in a forest.

So although the boy would be smaller and lighter than JonBenet, it serves as a proof of concept. That the suitcase played a role in a prior staging is favorite of mine.

.

The best test would be to put a 45 lb little girl in the same case. JonBenet was out with the head bash and looked dead. I'm sure she could have been squished for the trip downstairs. Wish we knew if their was snaps and things inside the case. Just thinking about this breaks my heart.

 

[elannia]

To conceal where she was murdered and who murdered her and who was present and what was happening there.



Because they WANTED to place suspicion on the Ramsey family.



It wasn't a risk. Regardless of the circumstantial evidence making it appear that someone within the family killed JBR, it could never be proven that they did (because they didn't). Far better for people to be focused on the Ramsey family than to be looking elsewhere. Even though it badly hurt the Ramsey's reputation no one was convicted of anything (or even charged).



The clock does not start early. This was not a planned event. It was not intended to happen. This was damage control. No one knew JBR was going to die during this event, but when it happened everyone jumped into action to conceal what really happened.



Their goal was not for the Ramsey's to be convicted of their daughter's murder. Their goal was for everyone's focus and attention to be on the Ramsey's but for them not to be convicted, because the Ramsey's could not be convicted to the public without exposing what was really going on.




All I can tell you friend is that it is bigger than what you think. A lot of people worked together to conceal the true nature of this murder. As I have tried to convey, this is much bigger than just the Ramsey family. You may never understand or believe anything I am telling you, but I have answers for all your questions.

So based on this theory is that why no one wanted to take this to the GJ? And why it didnt go to trial? Because of being afraid what secrrts would come out?

 

[ukrberserker23]

I do have a question. If JBR was killed elsewhere by being laid out on an altar and bashed and strangled, then moved to the Ramsey basement a laid in the same position, would that affect the livor mortis? If so, then she could have been killed elsewhere.

 

[singularity]

.
A big old Samsonite suitcase is set beneath the window. Who put that there? The suitcase is like a stool to climb up and crawl out the window. .....I rush up the stairs. I tell one of the policemen about the window. I can barely form the words. I'm sick to my stomach. I have to keep my wits about me...."

If he told the police about the window, why didn't he mention the suitcase?

The suitcase shouldn't be here.

Oh really, John? There's quite a few things down there that "shouldn't be here". His surprise at seeing this suitcase on his trip down there with Fleet doesn't fool me. JOhn has already been down in the basement that morning. He knew the suitcase was there already.

Had LS never ran with the suitcase as a step for the intruder, the Ramseys would have tried to act like the suitcase never existed. It was only LS and hindsight when the Ramseys act like the suitcase is a big deal but notice they never want to talk about what was inside the suitcase. Why? because its contents have nothing to do with any IDI and tell an entirely different story.

And if have to recant a bit on my former truce. I will accept that JB was not in the suitcase after she was finally dead. But I can also accept that JB might have been carried from her bedroom to the basement in that suitcase being unconscious, but still alive. There was activity involving her death which connects to the basement near the paint tray, and I believe she could have been removed from the suitcase alive, and the final evils against her happened in the basement, with the suitcase being carelessly abandoned.

Interesting theory but like others, I don't see the point in placing her in there just to move her down into the basement. The only possible reason might be to move her down there in it in case Burke gets up and sees them doing it and it'll just look like they're getting ready for the trip....but that's a massive leap.

We know how the suitcase got under the window - FW set it there. He said so. We know how the glass got on the suitcase - FW picked it up off the floor (or was it the window ledge?) and set it on the suitcase. He said so.

Excellent point and I don't understand why this fact flies under the radar. I have yet to see a documentary where the pic of the suitcase is shown and they point this out. Instead of saying "Ramsey friend Fleet White moved it to this position while looking around in the basement", we just hear the "intruder used it as a step out the window" nonsense.

I have also yet to see a documentary that tells viewers the contents of this suitcase. In the upcoming series, I hope the suitcase is treated as the evidence it really is and what that may imply.

So, the most sensible thing to do is say that the suitcase may or may not have been involved in the crime, and there is no way to tell. It's a time waster and an energy waster. There is no reason to speculate that JBR may have been placed in the suitcase at any time because we cannot confirm or falsify such a claim. We cannot solve the crime by looking at the suitcase.

While we wont solve the crime by looking at the suitcase, the suitcase is NOT a "time waster". Out of the evidence known publicly, it is one of the most revealing.

And while I suppose the suitcase evidence may never expose the real killer, I sure do wish that suitcase could talk because I think it would have lots to tell about JB's death.

Me too.

Wise advise, and respectfully taken.

You might consider this interesting from TOSOS, just read today (as I said, I have to go slowly with this book), pg 20 (JR is relating info about Pam's trip to the house to gather things):
"Pam wanted to stay in the playroom, wait for Burke and JonBenet to come running in, pull out a book to read to them, Dr. Seuss, maybe, but with the police officer behind her, she kept moving, through the hall, past the upstairs laundry area, toward John Andrew's room."

My internal red light went off twice during this once sentence, over the two bolded bits of info (BBM). What??????

JR had already said that Pam went first to their room to gather personal items for them - clothes, hygiene products, etc. Then to Burke's room for his things. To think she was going to JAR's room for more clothes maybe that Patsy had gathered for the Disney trip - why????

And to bring up the Suess book - that is pure guilty conscience IMHO!! A whole slew of kids books, I would presume, and he references that one?
Give me a break.

wow. Very interesting indeed.

I have not read his book. That statement is tempting me to read it.

WHY would LE release this to Lawrence Schiller? And WHY hasn't anyone else seen this?

Try checking Youtube for Anatomy of Cold Case.

Even if it was an adult Dr. Seuss book, there was another meant for high school/college kids. At this point, it's pure speculation that it was an adult Dr. Seuss book. All we know for sure is that it was Dr. Seuss. Just because something is on TV it doesn't mean it's true.

Even if its NOT the adult Dr Seuss book, which specific Dr Seuss book was found is almost beside the point.....although that specific book being the one does make it even more disturbing.

Dr Seuss books and semen stained blankets are not an innocent combination of items. Do you believe this situation would be perfectly kosher if the book was Cat in the Hat?

To those who find this evidence irrelevant.....

If you went into your child's room(or let's say your laundry area) and found and opened a suitcase containing a semen stained blanket and a Dr Seuss book are you just gonna say, "Oh that's just Cat in the Hat. No biggie" and then close the suitcase?

Man, talk about not being able to see the wood for the trees.

I don't substantiate them and won't be doing so. Instead, I offer you a theory that explains everything. The suitcase is just one of the many false clues that were purposely planted in this case. Did you ever wonder about the contents of the suitcase? If not, you should have. But I want to go beyond the suitcase now and say that all of the clues found at the Ramsey residence were false and contrived, everything except JBR's dead body that is. That was horrifyingly real. It was the only real thing there. The suitcase and its contents is a fraud and anyone trying to understand it as if played any part in the murder is wasting their time.

THis is the strangest post I have ever seen on a JBR forum. You say ALL clues are false and contrived, and the only real clue is Jonbenet's dead body, everyone is wasting their time yet you have offered us a "theory that explains everything".

Wow....

What I say is based upon my own intuitions about the crime, so keep that in mind. I do not think the murder happened at the Ramsey house. I think JBR was murdered elsewhere and then brought to her house where everything was staged to make it appear as if she had been murdered in her house. This suitcase and its contents are just part of that staging. I do not think it has any relation to the murder at all. The RN was penned to purposely draw attention to the R family. Why? Because it is far better for everyone to think one or both of the parents (or BR) murdered their own child than for people to think she was murdered elsewhere by someone else (which is what actually happened). Your attention is meant to go to the family so you won't look somewhere else. No one will ever prove they are guilty of the murder because they are not, however they are well aware of who is.

Ok now I see why you want everyone to ignore all evidence in the case. I think I'll take a pass on that suggestion...

but I have answers for all your questions.

Considering the fact you want everyone to ignore all the evidence, you have NO answers.

 

[MURDERER_SERVANT]

I believe that the suitcase was moved under the window as per staging of an intruder by J not knowing what was inside at the time.
Probably JA heard of his suitcase thing being there in the morning and told what was inside and abt his possible semen , thus J lawyering himm up asap and insisting on his clearance .. Pointing finger to JA unknowingly, J must have been terribily shocked.
jmo.

 

[DeDee]

I have never noticed that...... it still keeps JAR in the circle of who molested Jonbenet before that night she was murdered.

It appears that child molestation may be the root cause of death. I've never suspected Burke but do feel there's been a strong push on the internet that BDI in order to steer looks away from the father.

Richard Eikelenboom was asked to review the JonBenet Ramsey case for A&E. He included the suitcase and also the suitcase's contents (sham, duvet and a Dr. Seuss book) as being on the short list of items of interest in the case. I write 'short list' since 1400 items of evidence are involved in the murder of JBR.
https://www.ifscolorado.com/a-short-review-of-the-jonbenet-ramsey-case-by-richard-eikelenboom/

1400 items of evidence and the GJ returned a True Bill but Hunter refused to indict the Rs. Wonder why? Was it because DA Hunter was friends with the Ramsey's lawyers?

 

[UKGuy]

It appears that child molestation may be the root cause of death. I've never suspected Burke but do feel there's been a strong push on the internet that BDI in order to steer looks away from the father.

Richard Eikelenboom was asked to review the JonBenet Ramsey case for A&E. He included the suitcase and also the suitcase's contents (sham, duvet and a Dr. Seuss book) as being on the short list of items of interest in the case. I write 'short list' since 1400 items of evidence are involved in the murder of JBR.
https://www.ifscolorado.com/a-short-review-of-the-jonbenet-ramsey-case-by-richard-eikelenboom/

1400 items of evidence and the GJ returned a True Bill but Hunter refused to indict the Rs. Wonder why? Was it because DA Hunter was friends with the Ramsey's lawyers?

DeDee,

1400 items of evidence and the GJ returned a True Bill but Hunter refused to indict the Rs. Wonder why? Was it because DA Hunter was friends with the Ramsey's lawyers?[/SIZE]

Could be a friends link, might be he never wanted the case to go to trial since he never knew where it would go?

Yet, Hunter was trying to hide something by chaneling the case via the GJ system and by not filing the True Bills he buried the parents charges from public scrutiny.

Of the GJ's True Bills COUNT IV (child abuse resulting in death) is the most damming as COUNT VII (Accessory to a Crime) seems patently obvious to most observers.

So COUNT IV reads: John and Patsy did unlawfully, knowingly, recklessly and feloniously permit a child to be unreasonably placed in a situation which posed a threat of injury to the child's life or health, which resulted in the death of JonBenet Ramsey, a child under the age of sixteen.

So what was the situation that meant neither parent would face a Murder In The First Degree charge but that JonBenet's killer is referred to as the person?

What did the Grand Jury know that we do not, they heard testimony from Coroner Meyer, so he would have expanded on his claims of Sexual Contact and Digital Penetration Of Her Vagina.

Burke Ramsey testified, so what did he say?

With the parents staging the crime-scene, e.g. VII (Accessory to a Crime) it might be a violent assault was transformed into a sexual assault and death by ligature asphyxiation?

.

 

[Tricia]

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[DeDee]

<Respectfully snipped>

So what was the situation that meant neither parent would face a Murder In The First Degree charge but that JonBenet's killer is referred to as the person?

What did the Grand Jury know that we do not, they heard testimony from Coroner Meyer, so he would have expanded on his claims of Sexual Contact and Digital Penetration Of Her Vagina.

Burke Ramsey testified, so what did he say?

.

The situation was likely one John placed his daughter in without her permission.

We've studied her images from pageants that forced us to admit she looked hypnotic, as if in a trance. Maybe she was a MKUltra victim who often wore the hallmark black and white checked pageant costumes.

Elizabeth was experiencing the recollection of SRA memories so her fiancé was taking her away when she was killed.

What was Access Graphics access to anyway?

There was a line of questioning of Patsy about certain 'cutesy' photos although we're not privy to them. She was also asked about filming something 'cutesy'. I suspect the Detectives may have found evidence of imagery leading up to her death.

In Tricia's latest video, she mentioned there would need to be 7 (seven) people involved for the DNA to fit the evidence. Ironically, recently a Boulder Judge, William H. Long, allegedly wrote a death bed letter confessing there were 6 people involved + John. Seven. Was this the situation?

If so how does Patsy fit in? Maybe John forced her to write the RN.

Where would these 7 people plus JBR be att? Didn't Fleet keep the house a few doors down on the corner as an office? I don't recall, for certain.

If JR was training JAR to molest JBR, as evidence in the suitcase seems to indicate, then was BR also being molested? Pedophilia is typically a generational practice.

My opinion is that Burke was traumatized by his life's events. He was likely scared, terrified even, when appearing before the GJ. Does he understand his reasons for smearing? Did they ask about it? Did they ask about the pineapple? Was pineapple served at the White's?

In adulthood, BR left his IT cubicle job and moved into a home with a view of Beaver Island in Charlevoix. Alone.

JAR, 44, was on The Killing of JonBenet: The Final Suspects podcast earlier this year. He feels the answer is in the DNA. He met with Independent Forensic Services founder Richard Eikelenboom. He asked if they could retest DNA. Eikelenboom said he believed it would be worth it to redo all the DNA in the case.
Who Is JonBenet Ramsey’s Brother John Andrew Ramsey? | Heavy.com

JAR is in Episode 3
The Killing of JonBenet: The Final Suspects Podcast | Free Listening on Podbean App

 

[WhereAreTheyNow]

Ironically, recently a Boulder Judge, William H. Long, allegedly wrote a death bed letter confessing there were 6 people involved + John.

Judge Long died in 2010. Seems he confessed to many unbelievable things.

http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/file/fetch/134980182/Coffee Meetings with Judge Long.pdf