MA - Remains of 3 infants found, Erika Murray charged, Blackstone, Sept 2014

[wenwe4]

Did Dad know about the conditions of the home upstairs?

"Halpern said that he has not interviewed Rivera, but based on his interviews with Murray and others, he does not believe Rivera was confined to the basement. He said the basement had little furniture and a television, but no kitchen or bathroom".

Murray contends "On Aug. 28, Murray gave a handwritten statement to police regarding the marijuana saying, “Officers asked me about the basement, and I haven’t been down there for 5 months and nothing belongs to me".

"the children’s maternal grandmother, has default warrants issued against her, including one issued for a failure to pay more than $100,000 in restitution in an embezzlement case."

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...-blackstone/NP3enF7PKTph7v3zFeCoLK/story.html

 

[LLC]

Did Dad know about the conditions of the home upstairs?

"Halpern said that he has not interviewed Rivera, but based on his interviews with Murray and others, he does not believe Rivera was confined to the basement. He said the basement had little furniture and a television, but no kitchen or bathroom".

Murray contends "On Aug. 28, Murray gave a handwritten statement to police regarding the marijuana saying, “Officers asked me about the basement, and I haven’t been down there for 5 months and nothing belongs to me".

"the children’s maternal grandmother, has default warrants issued against her, including one issued for a failure to pay more than $100,000 in restitution in an embezzlement case."

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...-blackstone/NP3enF7PKTph7v3zFeCoLK/story.html

And well there ya have it...seems like she was busy in her own world of well, crap.

 

[Ms.Heather]

He knew!
We had a pretty humid end of August around these parts... According to the article about the neighbor who found them there was no electricity or running water. The house was all closed up. I cannot even imagine what it smelled like. How would a man living in the same home not know?! Maybe EM didn't go downstairs into the basement for 5 months, I can believe that... If there is no reason for her to be down there. But as far as him he was upstairs to use the bathroom/kitchen... he knew. If in fact he is the father of the 2 oldest kids who were living in that home-- why hasn't he been charged?!? It is just as much HIS responsibility to care for his children as it is hers! Maybe he didn't know the 2 youngest were his, but he knew the oldest ones were.
This case makes me angry. So much wrong done to 7 innocent children for no real reason! I hope that the surviving children are just being wrapped in love far far away from anyone in the family! IMO, that whole family failed those children.

 

[wenwe4]

Interesting the EM said she hasn't been in the basement for 5 months - isn't that the same age as the baby?

The two youngest children are still hospitalized, and while I expect the 3 y/o to be hospitalized/institutionalized or in a therapeutic care placement for an extended period of time, I had more hope for the infant. Somehow I missed that the infant did not know how to "hold on" to someone holding them - (an indicator that she was never picked up and held) - I now fear that both babies will need extensive physical therapy, occupational therapy, medical care, socialization skills, speech therapy, and a primary focus on development and attachment - for an extended period of time.

Children diagnosed with Reactive Attachment will go to anyone to get their needs met. They have no "stranger danger" because they never experienced any attachment with a primary care provider. These children did not know they could get their needs met by a stranger - this is the most alarming fact to me!

I truly wonder if anyone ever cuddled the 3 y/o or the infant. How has EM been able to soothe them enough to keep them from crying in the past? Did the debris in the home muffle the sounds of their cries?

Every piece of furniture is being tossed out in this home. I doubt there will be anything that will be left for the family to get back. Last night on NG they stated bed bugs had infested the home as well. The only way to rid a home completely of bedbugs is to heat the entire home up to 135 degrees. They hide in the electrical outlets, in the walls, in everything and they just move from one area to another. No "fumigation" has been successful (to my knowledge) to erradicate them but the heat treatment. Certainly Dad had bedbugs downstairs too.

I understand feeling overwhelmed and depressed but at what level was this family willing to go?

 

[passionflower]

no water or electricity? for how long? How was she on FB on the computer?
IIRC there was a photo of her daughter also clean and dressed up..........
and this 'father' didn't care? Why is he not responsible for his children's nutrition and cleanliness?
IMOO he should be arrested for child neglect and the children not going to school.
Why does he get a FREE pass???

 

[wenwe4]

He knew!
We had a pretty humid end of August around these parts... According to the article about the neighbor who found them there was no electricity or running water. The house was all closed up. I cannot even imagine what it smelled like. How would a man living in the same home not know?! Maybe EM didn't go downstairs into the basement for 5 months, I can believe that... If there is no reason for her to be down there. But as far as him he was upstairs to use the bathroom/kitchen... he knew. If in fact he is the father of the 2 oldest kids who were living in that home-- why hasn't he been charged?!? It is just as much HIS responsibility to care for his children as it is hers! Maybe he didn't know the 2 youngest were his, but he knew the oldest ones were.
This case makes me angry. So much wrong done to 7 innocent children for no real reason! I hope that the surviving children are just being wrapped in love far far away from anyone in the family! IMO, that whole family failed those children.

I completely agree with you. BTW the older 2 are living with "Paternal Grandparents", who interestingly were never mentioned (that I saw) on EM's FB account. While I agree that the whole family had some part in neglect and denial of what was happening in this home - I think Dad is probably living with his parents and his older kids.

Where would he go? He cannot be in the home and CPS will always try to keep the family together if possible. It makes sense to me that he is living with the older children at his parents home - remember he hasn't been charged with anything related to the kids. CPS would have no reason to keep him from his children without further proof of his involvement in what was happening upstairs.

 

[Ms.Heather]

no water or electricity? for how long? How was she on FB on the computer?
IIRC there was a photo of her daughter also clean and dressed up..........
and this 'father' didn't care? Why is he not responsible for his children's nutrition and cleanliness?
IMOO he should be arrested for child neglect and the children not going to school.
Why does he get a FREE pass???

Yes passionflower! My thoughts exactly! Why has be not been arrested?! He failed his children too! The most they can arrest him on is a marijuana charge? Seriously?!
I was able to go through her facebook and it had TONS of photos of the older children... They always looked clean and happy. It seemed like she was VERY involved in their lives. Always doing things with them. Meanwhile, she left the youngest at home alone!!! This must be a nightmare for the 2 older kids...

 

[wenwe4]

A shout out to lurkers and guests - we would love your input!

 

[passionflower]

I am fascinated?? by how a woman can give birth (water breaks, labor, birth, baby doesn't cry or cries, clean up herself, room and child) and no one knows. 5 times!! Babies come at all hours of the day and night. no one has to go to the bathroom in a 1 bathroom home?

 

[Ms.Heather]

I completely agree with you. BTW the older 2 are living with "Paternal Grandparents", who interestingly were never mentioned (that I saw) on EM's FB account. While I agree that the whole family had some part in neglect and denial of what was happening in this home - I think Dad is probably living with his parents and his older kids.

Where would he go? He cannot be in the home and CPS will always try to keep the family together if possible. It makes sense to me that he is living with the older children at his parents home - remember he hasn't been charged with anything related to the kids. CPS would have no reason to keep him from his children without further proof of his involvement in what was happening upstairs.

That man needs to be kept far away from his kids IMO. He is just as guilty as she is for making those children lives a living hell.

 

[wenwe4]

I thought about all those FB post pictures of them having fun with the older 2 kids at various places - all the while the infants are alone, hungry, hurt, crying, uncomfortable, and their skin crawls with bugs, maggots, and vermin.

 

[Ms.Heather]

I thought about all those FB post pictures of them having fun with the older 2 kids at various places - all the while the infants are alone, hungry, hurt, crying, uncomfortable, and their skin crawls with bugs, maggots, and vermin.

Breaks my heart. They said that the 3 year olds mattress was sunken in from all the urine and feces on it. He didn't walk, so he was stuck there on that bug infested mattress every day all day while Mom pretended he did not exist and went out with the older kids. Its just so so terrible.

 

[passionflower]

The 3 year old can' walk from what I read. Can baby crawl? Who can leave a 3 year old alone? Did she cage the the 3 year old? Even a 5 month old starts rolling over and tries to crawl around. How were they confined?
My mind is going in all directions thinking of these poor darlings.
If RR didn't live there (stayed with his parents?)and only 'visited', was this only for sex?
I could throw up just thinking of bed bugs, dead animals, dead babies and filth and he continued to go there with the other 2 children................what kind of person does that?

 

[passionflower]

Breaks my heart. They said that the 3 year olds mattress was sunken in from all the urine and feces on it. He didn't walk, so he was stuck there on that bug infested mattress every day all day while Mom pretended he did not exist and went out with the older kids. Its just so so terrible.

aww no, he must be covered with sores and bites. I wonder if something is wrong with him since he cannot walk or talk............delivery gone bad?

 

[Z&BsMommy]

I am in NO WAY making excuses for this woman but I gave birth at home to my stillborn daughter at 7.5 months. I ended up having her in the toilet without waking my roommate.. I didn't realize what was happening until I pretty much had her.. Imoo it's possible to give birth undetected, especially when doing it intentionally.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I am in NO WAY making excuses for this woman but I gave birth at home to my stillborn daughter at 7.5 months. I ended up having her in the toilet without waking my roommate.. I didn't realize what was happening until I pretty much had her.. Imoo it's possible to give birth undetected, especially when doing it intentionally.

Just wanted to give you a ((((hug))))


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[PrimeSuspect]

That man needs to be kept far away from his kids IMO. He is just as guilty as she is for making those children lives a living hell.

and the thing is, they were still having sex. Where the hell did that happen, outside in the car? She would sneak down to the basement? I can't believe people still have carnal urges with all this crap going on. :sigh:

 

[wenwe4]

The 3 year old can' walk from what I read. Can baby crawl? Who can leave a 3 year old alone? Did she cage the the 3 year old? Even a 5 month old starts rolling over and tries to crawl around. How were they confined?
My mind is going in all directions thinking of these poor darlings.
If RR didn't live there (stayed with his parents?)and only 'visited', was this only for sex?
I could throw up just thinking of bed bugs, dead animals, dead babies and filth and he continued to go there with the other 2 children................what kind of person does that?

Passionflower - the 3 y/o can not walk. She did not need to confine the babies - they were self confined on their respective beds. Humans are "hard wired" for attachment. Human interaction is required for brain development and crucial for reaching developmental milestones with infants. They probably never acquired the skills or muscle tone to crawl, sit on their own, speak, or ambulate. Even if they attempted to roll over or move on their own, most likely they were unable to go far as they would be consumed by the 2 feet of feces laden diapers, milk jugs, soda cans, and debris. Over 50% of the 2nd floor has to have all new drywall due to the amount of feces contamination.

Every space in their environment had to smooch, crunch, or slide - given the descriptions of what they are removing from these rooms. Even if they attempted to ambulate - I bet they could never get very far and gave up - what would be the point? There was nothing to know that existed any different in the world. They never experienced anything else - including sunlight!

 

[LLC]

no water or electricity? for how long? How was she on FB on the computer?
IIRC there was a photo of her daughter also clean and dressed up..........
and this 'father' didn't care? Why is he not responsible for his children's nutrition and cleanliness?
IMOO he should be arrested for child neglect and the children not going to school.
Why does he get a FREE pass???

I agree 100%.

I think they kids were removed from her home on Aug. 28...maybe they were in state's custody until the grandparents showed up hence not back in school? Idk.

I hate to think about what these kids will endure further after all this...

 

[wenwe4]

I think the kids are enrolled in school that is close to the Paternal Grandparent's home. Given the news in this town, I am sure the kids would be inundated with questions from their classmates and friends if they returned to their previous school.

I am sure the kids will be assessed to ensure they have received appropriate medical, dental, educational, and social skills. They may attend some counseling due to all they have endured and coming to terms with the loss of their Mother (to prison), the loss of their home (it was still the only one they had), and the loss of their friends and school. Furthermore, there will need to be discussions about why things happened the way they did (ie: CPS, boarding up the home, removal of infants, and deceased skeletons from the closet), etc.

CPS will probably offer services to the Father unless or until he is charged with crimes other than the pot. I am sure he will have to have a drug and alcohol assessment and have to follow any recommendations. Then he will have to provide clean UA's for a period of time, and may have to attend parenting/counseling/Fatherhood classes, etc.

Where I live, if the only thing keeping the parent from their children is housing, CPS must try to provide housing to ameliorate the issues that caused the child to go into care. One could effectively argue (at least at this point) that the Father of the 2 older kids could in fact be given assistance to secure alternative housing.