VA - Hannah Elizabeth Graham, 18, Charlottesville, 13 Sept 2014 - #9

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Hank Scorpio said:
Just a guess, but if the landlord knows they took 2 things, then it may have been stuff the landlord had to be told about...Like if they had to cut out a part of carpet, or take a drain pipe from a sink or something.
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True, or I heard his roomies moved out (?) and I doubt JM is hanging out there so they probably wanted the landlord to open the door. jmo
 
cady said:
?? Looking for something that was not specified in the first warrant. ?? JMO
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Right. But if they haven't gotten forensics back yet, what would have prompted it. Hmmm... Inquiring minds!!!!
 
What about the stuff family removed from the apt the other day? Did they not come and take away boxes and clothing?
 
Okay guys. That's 5 warrants now. Can we all agree they have evidence? Again, they're not just going to be granted search warrants for no reason.
 
Lava said:
He didn't run off...he left the station after talking to the lawyer. The lawyer probably advised him not to talk. Speculation is that he could not afford the lawyer, therefore the lawyer could not sit in on his talk with LE.
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Sooo he just up and left without LE knowing?
 
I think his going to the police station is a really interesting part of his case. This is completely speculative but I am guessing he went there with the intention of talking to LE. He knows that is unavoidable and guilty or innocent he may have just wanted to to have that conversation. He also knows though that given the focus on him from early on in the case, he would be an absolute fool to speak to LE without a lawyer present. But he can't afford a lawyer. So he goes to the police station, thinking maybe they have a lawyer that he can speak with first. They don't but they give him a list / directory and he gets in touch with a lawyer. That lawyer tells him that his only option at this point is to pay to hire someone as he can't get a public defender until arrested. Lawyer also tells him to say absolutely nothing until he has retained and spoken with a lawyer. JM can't pay so he is frustrated and back to square one. He can't even talk to LE even if he wants to. So he leaves, getting more and more frustrated that he is caught between a rock and a hard place. Gets to where he is going and is sick and tired of being followed and being watched and he takes off speeding trying to lose those tailing him. I doubt there was much of a chase, they knew they could pin reckless driving on him. I don't think JM is really a fugitive - on the run. I think he is probably still local and just trying to plan the next steps and how to best protect himself without the constant pressure of LE gazing in his windows and tailgating him down the street. While his motivations are completely different depending on his innocence or guilt, I think his actions can be interpreted in many ways and don't point directly to guilt tor innocence.
 
JB225 said:
I'm posting for the first time! :)
I have to say, though, that when I was in college, even when blackout drunk, I did not just "pass out" (unfortunately), but I became even more hyper and could function pretty normally - even text. No drugs involved. I think people just react differently to alcohol. Some say she must be on something else besides just alcohol the way she's marching around with so much energy. I am not kidding when I say just drinking liquor did this to me, too. I wasn't a beer drinker - it put me to sleep. But I loved liquor in college, mainly, because I became like the energizer bunny and ready to go all night.

BTW - I do not think she was lost. I think she was looking for someone. I think maybe a guy interest who she heard would be out somewhere. Maybe she just caught wind he would be "out" and that's why she was looking all over town. Who knows, but I do not think she was lost.
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Yes, this "looking for someone" theory sounds very plausible to me. And if so, considering her movements, it may have been someone she didn't want her friends to know she was interested in (or dating), for some reason. There needs to be a thorough investigation into her personal/romantic life, IMO, and I imagine there will be. What if she'd had a lovers' quarrel with some man her friends didn't even know about? What if she went looking for him that night and things went bad? That would give rise to an entirely new POI.

For the record, I'm not looking for ways to exonerate the existing POI--I have no dog in that race at all, and I do think there's a good chance he did something to Hannah. But I don't like the way he has been held up publicly by LE as the sole POI, with little or no hard evidence other than the fact that he and Hannah went to O'Grady's together for a drink of some kind. And I completely understand how scared he must be to suddenly go from being just an obscure orderly with money struggles to being a nationally known suspect in a probable murder. Add to that his race, the traditional and recently increased tensions between LE and the black community, and his decision to stop talking after he got a lawyer is easy to understand.
 
Tracey4AU said:
Right. But if they haven't gotten forensics back yet, what would have prompted it. Hmmm... Inquiring minds!!!!
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Very interesting. When I've seen LE go back to a scene they have already taken evidence from it is usually because evidence at another scene has been found and they want to match it up. For instance, If a body is found to have stickers on it, they may go back to scene 1 to look for stickers.
 
gitana1 said:
Is LE not supposed to be highly interested in this man? I don't understand what everyone thinks should be done here. Help me understand what I am missing. (I have not followed every aspect of this case).
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Sbm

LE should absolutely be interested in him, investigate him, gather evidence, and nail his butt if if the evidence points to him.

IMO, LE should not try him in the press when they admittedly don't have probable cause.

Moo, but I feel the pc crossed a line, a dangerous one. When LE is so emotionally invested in a single person, it is all to easy for them to develop tunnel vision.
 
Tracey4AU said:
Right. But if they haven't gotten forensics back yet, what would have prompted it. Hmmm... Inquiring minds!!!!
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Forensics may not all be back but some of it could or something they found raised more questions
 
Saccas85 said:
Okay guys. That's 5 warrants now. Can we all agree they have evidence? Again, they're not just going to be granted search warrants for no reason.
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I can agree! But I've been in that camp all along. :copcar:
 
Saccas85 said:
Okay guys. That's 5 warrants now. Can we all agree they have evidence? Again, they're not just going to be granted search warrants for no reason.
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With most police departments, I'd say yes. But with these guys, it could be a case of "in for a penny, in for a pound."
 
pittie_mcclure said:
With that said, we may never know what Hannah's intentions were.
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First time I've managed to comment on this very busy thread. But yes, one of the lines of inquiry that would normally take place in a discussion like this would be to nail down where HG was planning to go that night. Her friends must have been interviewed about her plans and state of mind that evening, or have opinions on who or what she might normally have been looking for, but I haven't seen much or any discussion.
 
Saccas85 said:
Okay guys. That's 5 warrants now. Can we all agree they have evidence? Again, they're not just going to be granted search warrants for no reason.
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Evidence of what? We have no idea what they have, or what they don't have. Heck, they may not even know what they have until forensics come back. People can be cleared after forensics.
 
jamicat said:
I thought the non car,driving and that sort of charges someone noted were for his father of the the same name. Note that he is not referred to has a felon. The reckless driving charge he is now getting seems to be one of the more serious of his batch.
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There are some things that don't fit in the horrible driver narrative.

He was charged with a Felony - Grand Larceny. He went to court around 5 times - and the State dropped the charge. It's possible a witness did not show.

He was convicted of a misdemeanor - Trespassing after being warned. He had a trial and there was a witness, and he was found guilty. Had nothing to do with driving.

He has also been charged with assault.

He is a court veteran, and he's had Criminal Defense lawyers represent him.
 
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