JLM: When will charges come in the HG and MH cases?

[4 Free Speech]

I've been thinking about the search warrants, and what was found. LE said that on the first pass--the car and the apartment--they found nothing to allow them to make an arrest. But after the second apartment search (and prior to forensic analysis), they issued the arrest warrant. What could they have gotten the second time that they didn't get the first time? Clothing was mentioned. Could it be HG's watch that they found? Maybe they missed it the first time (it was large and could have been mistaken for masculine based on the picture of her at her apartment).

Also, does anyone know if LE can do DNA testing prior to an arrest? I know once an arrest is made they take the swab, but what kind of testing can they do during an investigation before charges and arrest?

I personally don't think they can take a buccal swab until there has been an arrest. JMO

http://criminal.lawyers.com/crimina...ling-crime-investigation-and-your-rights.html

How easily was Jesse Matthew’s DNA taken and tested in Hannah Graham case?

http://wtvr.com/2014/10/02/how-easily-was-dna-taken-and-tested-in-hannah-graham-case/

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I don't believe they will charge JM with Morgan's abduction and murder until after the 2005 rape case and Hannah's case goes to trial.

They have this unusual ruling that cases must be tried within 5 months of an arrest. Although I think I did read that the defense can ask for an extension which I do expect will happen.

They have no reason to be in any hurry anyway. There is no statute of limitations on murder.

I also expect that his charges will be upped at some point on Hannah's case and will include murder.

IMO

 

[4 Free Speech]

http://www.wric.com/story/27435656/u...-stone-article

11/20/2014

CHARLOTTESVILLE, Va. (WRIC) -
Police have upped patrols in the area near the fraternity house accused of being involved in a violent rape alleged in a Rolling Stone article.

Windows were broken and messages were spray painted on the wall of the fraternity, reading, "suspend us," among other things.
"A Rape On Campus: A Brutal Assault and Struggle For Justice at UVa." tells the story of a young woman who recounts an attack in 2012 and its disturbing aftermath.

In the article, a third-year student named Jackie says she was raped during her first year at the university by her date and his pledge brothers for three hours at a Phi Kappa Psi fraternity party.

Afterward, beaten and bleeding, Jackie says she called three classmates for help. They refused to take her to the hospital after debating how her report would affect their own chances to pledge.

Asking a university official why UVa.'s rape stats were so hard to find, Jackie says she was told, "because nobody wants to send their daughter to the rape school."

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I've been thinking about the search warrants, and what was found. LE said that on the first pass--the car and the apartment--they found nothing to allow them to make an arrest. But after the second apartment search (and prior to forensic analysis), they issued the arrest warrant. What could they have gotten the second time that they didn't get the first time? Clothing was mentioned. Could it be HG's watch that they found? Maybe they missed it the first time (it was large and could have been mistaken for masculine based on the picture of her at her apartment).

Also, does anyone know if LE can do DNA testing prior to an arrest? I know once an arrest is made they take the swab, but what kind of testing can they do during an investigation before charges and arrest?

He had to be arrested first before they can obtain a SW to do a DNA swab,make him give up head hairs, and pubic hairs.

I believe they did find plenty the first go around but that was at the first and they would have to verify some of the evidence first to make sure it tied back to Hannah. That would take time. I think they had already found evidence in the vehicle because from that evidence they were able to get a Judge to sign off on another SW of his apartment.

I remember in the Guy Heinz Jr. mass murder case they did a search warrant immediately but it took them a few days to get a piece of the evidence back from the lab. They waited and didn't arrest GHJ until then even though they suspected all along he was the mass murderer. He was charged 8 days later after the 8 victims had been murdered.

I think that is what happened in this case. One or two pieces of evidence was sent to the lab and was returned and that is when they put out a warrant for his arrest. I truly think they found plenty of evidence the first time around both in the vehicle and his apartment. And from the evidence they first found it showed them they needed to go back to look for articles of clothing. But anything found would have to be gone over by forensic experts first before they had probable cause for an arrest.

It actually did happen pretty quickly from the time of the initial SWs. It was from those warrants that resulted in an arrest warrant.

IMO

 

[cathyish]

As a warning, the depiction of the rape in the RS article was extremely graphic.

But one section really struck me as it applies to JM and the probability that he's a serial rapist:

"Once successfully inside the frat house, women play the role of grateful guests in unfamiliar territory where men control the variables. In dark, loud basements, girls accept drinks, are pulled onto dance floors to be ground and groped and, later, often having lost sight of their friends, led into bathrooms or up the stairs for privacy. Most of that hooking up is consensual. But against that backdrop, as psychologist David Lisak discovered, lurk undetected predators. Lisak's 2002 groundbreaking study of more than 1,800 college men found that roughly nine out of 10 rapes are committed by serial offenders, who are responsible for an astonishing average of six rapes each. None of the offenders in Lisak's study had ever been reported. Lisak's findings upended general presumptions about campus sexual assault: It implied that most incidents are not bumbling, he-said-she-said miscommunications, but rather deliberate crimes by serial sex offenders."

Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/...#ixzz3JdCCAUBP

 

[Conductor71]

I've been thinking about the search warrants, and what was found. LE said that on the first pass--the car and the apartment--they found nothing to allow them to make an arrest. But after the second apartment search (and prior to forensic analysis), they issued the arrest warrant. What could they have gotten the second time that they didn't get the first time? Clothing was mentioned. Could it be HG's watch that they found? Maybe they missed it the first time (it was large and could have been mistaken for masculine based on the picture of her at her apartment).

Also, does anyone know if LE can do DNA testing prior to an arrest? I know once an arrest is made they take the swab, but what kind of testing can they do during an investigation before charges and arrest?

Those are really good questions. I still haven't quite made it over the "Wanted" poster hurdle though. I remember first reading it and laughing over how in the world LE could issue a poster for two counts of speeding, but apparently they can. Then I noticed the date under his photo reads September 19th. The very same day his car was under search and seizure then his apartment. The poster was released on Monday, and not surprisingly the charge for abduction was released the next day. If that initial search yielded no obvious evidence to arrest/detain him for questioning, why and how did they get a mug shot on that very same day? A few posters here informed me that this was a DVM photo taken because he went that day to renew his DL. I cannot find a media source though. Maybe this is how LE rolls in VA? In the Midwest, we do not release any names or mug shots until a suspect is under arrest not wanted for questioning. Besides that too is disingenuous...he had already lawyered up and wasn't talking. The only reporter who seemed to call out LE on any of this was of the Washington Post:
At
Though such posters are usually reserved for situations when police are trying to track down suspected violent criminals, drug dealers, abductors and fugitives, the Charlottesville Police Department wants Jesse Leroy Matthew Jr., 32, on two counts of reckless driving. Matthew has not been charged with any crime related to Graham’s disappearance, and police have presented no evidence that a crime occurred.

Source: Police issue wanted poster...

 

[Conductor71]

I have noticed in several media articles that the details of the search taking place at JM's apartment that his physical description matches that of (mythical) other black male suspect with short close cropped hair, heavy, and in his 20's. Yet, they were at JM's address. Why was this done? How does that help find HG? Did this other person never seen on camera even exist?

 

[FindHG]

Hannah Graham Death: UVA Student Died from 'Homicidal Violence' but Medical Examiner Withholds Details
By Anu Passary, Tech Times | November 20, 7:05 AM
http://www.techtimes.com/articles/2...ce-but-medical-examiner-withholds-details.htm

 

[Yvettea]

http://www.wsls.com/story/26562846/unidentified-witness-in-missing-uva-student-surveillance-video-comes-forward

I have noticed in several media articles that the details of the search taking place at JM's apartment that his physical description matches that of (mythical) other black male suspect with short close cropped hair, heavy, and in his 20's. Yet, they were at JM's address. Why was this done? How does that help find HG? Did this other person never seen on camera even exist?

You could say white guy came close in his description of the suspect, maybe close enough for LE.

The person of interest is described as:

Black male
Above average height (5'10-5'11)
250-285 lbs
Close shaved goatee
Slight beer belly
Late 20-30's
Last seen wearing black jeans and a white shirt

Clothes and close-cropped head were off.

 

[ILOKAL]

Those are really good questions. I still haven't quite made it over the "Wanted" poster hurdle though. I remember first reading it and laughing over how in the world LE could issue a poster for two counts of speeding, but apparently they can. Then I noticed the date under his photo reads September 19th. The very same day his car was under search and seizure then his apartment. The poster was released on Monday, and not surprisingly the charge for abduction was released the next day. If that initial search yielded no obvious evidence to arrest/detain him for questioning, why and how did they get a mug shot on that very same day? A few posters here informed me that this was a DVM photo taken because he went that day to renew his DL. I cannot find a media source though. Maybe this is how LE rolls in VA? In the Midwest, we do not release any names or mug shots until a suspect is under arrest not wanted for questioning. Besides that too is disingenuous...he had already lawyered up and wasn't talking. The only reporter who seemed to call out LE on any of this was of the Washington Post:
At
Though such posters are usually reserved for situations when police are trying to track down suspected violent criminals, drug dealers, abductors and fugitives, the Charlottesville Police Department wants Jesse Leroy Matthew Jr., 32, on two counts of reckless driving. Matthew has not been charged with any crime related to Graham’s disappearance, and police have presented no evidence that a crime occurred.

Source: Police issue wanted poster...

Apparently, Henry Graff, NBC Anchor/Reporter in Charlottesville reported that LE stated the photo used in the Wanted Poster was taken at the DMV on September 19th when JLM renewed his license. I think it was posted to Graff's Twitter.

 

[FindHG]

Jesse Matthew’s hearing in Hannah Graham case delayed
By Scott Wise and Laura French - 8:00 am, Nov 21, '14
http://wtvr.com/2014/11/21/jesse-matthew-hearing-delay/
Laura French@lfrenchnews
BREAKING: #JesseMatthew's December court hearing in Albemarle Co. continued to March 23 at 9:30. @CBS6

Jesse Matthew's Hearing For Reckless Driving Charges Postponed
By WRIC Newsroom Updated: No 21, 2014 8:02 AM EST
http://www.wric.com/story/27448135/jesse-matthews-hearing-for-reckless-driving-charges-postponed

 

[hambirg]

Jesse Matthew’s hearing in Hannah Graham case delayed
By Scott Wise and Laura French - 8:00 am, Nov 21, '14
http://wtvr.com/2014/11/21/jesse-matthew-hearing-delay/
Laura French@lfrenchnews
BREAKING: #JesseMatthew's December court hearing in Albemarle Co. continued to March 23 at 9:30. @CBS6

Jesse Matthew's Hearing For Reckless Driving Charges Postponed
By WRIC Newsroom Updated: No 21, 2014 8:02 AM EST
http://www.wric.com/story/27448135/jesse-matthews-hearing-for-reckless-driving-charges-postponed

That first one is a little misleading. He still has a bond hearing on Dec 4th for the abduction charges. Only the reckless driving has been postponed.

Matthew's court appearance in Charlottesville on abduction charges related to the Hannah Graham case has not been continued and is still scheduled for December 4 at 2:00 p.m.
http://www.wric.com/story/27448135/jesse-matthews-hearing-for-reckless-driving-charges-postponed

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

Those are really good questions. I still haven't quite made it over the "Wanted" poster hurdle though. I remember first reading it and laughing over how in the world LE could issue a poster for two counts of speeding, but apparently they can. Then I noticed the date under his photo reads September 19th. The very same day his car was under search and seizure then his apartment. The poster was released on Monday, and not surprisingly the charge for abduction was released the next day. If that initial search yielded no obvious evidence to arrest/detain him for questioning, why and how did they get a mug shot on that very same day? A few posters here informed me that this was a DVM photo taken because he went that day to renew his DL. I cannot find a media source though. Maybe this is how LE rolls in VA? In the Midwest, we do not release any names or mug shots until a suspect is under arrest not wanted for questioning. Besides that too is disingenuous...he had already lawyered up and wasn't talking. The only reporter who seemed to call out LE on any of this was of the Washington Post:
At
Though such posters are usually reserved for situations when police are trying to track down suspected violent criminals, drug dealers, abductors and fugitives, the Charlottesville Police Department wants Jesse Leroy Matthew Jr., 32, on two counts of reckless driving. Matthew has not been charged with any crime related to Graham’s disappearance, and police have presented no evidence that a crime occurred.

Source: Police issue wanted poster...

About that wanted poster for traffic violations...I get the idea they went on over-kill mode because of the games they played in putting out that inaccurate description of JM when the mall videos were released. I am leaning towards that false description being used to buy some time in the hopes the JM would make contact. When he didn't, IMO they felt a need to put his face up because people were told that he wasn't the one walked away with HG. In other words, they wanted to backtrack on their lies.

I also think LE was getting a lot of pressure from the Harrington's about this, because they've said over and over that what happened to MH would happen again. It was reported that they had been critical of LE during Morgan's investigation. And this recent statement shows they were still not confident:

Morgan Harrington's Mother: 'Enough is enough'
Posted: Sep 17, 2014
http://www.wncn.com/story/26560079/morgan-harringtons-mother-enough-is-enough
"It seems like there is a cluster phenomenon of missing and murdered women in that area and I don't know if it's that attributable to a crime spree or to a situation that enables these crimes to occur, but what ever the problem is, we need to address it. There's too many are missing and too many are gone," Harrington said.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

I have noticed in several media articles that the details of the search taking place at JM's apartment that his physical description matches that of (mythical) other black male suspect with short close cropped hair, heavy, and in his 20's. Yet, they were at JM's address. Why was this done? How does that help find HG? Did this other person never seen on camera even exist?

Police Release Person of Interest Description in Hannah Graham Case
Posted: Sep 18, 2014
www.nbc29.com/story/26567187/police-release-person-of-interest-description-in-hannah-graham-case

Police are now looking for a person of interest, described as a black male in his late 20s or early 30s, with a close-shaved head, a goatee, and a slight "beer belly." The witness who saw him says he was about 5'10" or 5'11" and between 250 and 285 pounds, wearing black jeans and a white T-shirt.

Think about that description...wouldn't someone at 5'10" - 5'11" weighing between 250 and 285 lbs. be REALLY round? A "slight beer belly"? That sounds crazy! IMO, WG was a bouncer at Rapture and knew JM. I'm of the opinion the "other person" was made up.

 

[newredtabby]

Police Release Person of Interest Description in Hannah Graham Case
Posted: Sep 18, 2014
www.nbc29.com/story/26567187/police-release-person-of-interest-description-in-hannah-graham-case

Police are now looking for a person of interest, described as a black male in his late 20s or early 30s, with a close-shaved head, a goatee, and a slight "beer belly." The witness who saw him says he was about 5'10" or 5'11" and between 250 and 285 pounds, wearing black jeans and a white T-shirt.

Think about that description...wouldn't someone at 5'10" - 5'11" weighing between 250 and 285 lbs. be REALLY round? A "slight beer belly"? That sounds crazy! IMO, WG was a bouncer at Rapture and knew JM. I'm of the opinion the "other person" was made up.

Someone with as much muscle as JM could easily weight 250 with no beer belly at all.

 

[Rolo]

Or if someone shook them hard enough to break their necks.

My apologies if thats offensive. Not thinking too clearly at the moment due to medication. Im going back to bed.

Just a quick reply to say I hope you're healing well and resting as comfortably as possible. Take care of yourself.

 

[Yvettea]

IMO, WG was a bouncer at Rapture and knew JM. I'm of the opinion the "other person" was made up.

Have the police ever released the identity of WG?

 

[Emaa]

Though such posters are usually reserved for situations when police are trying to track down suspected violent criminals, drug dealers, abductors and fugitives

He was a fugitive.

A few posters here informed me that this was a DVM photo taken because he went that day to renew his DL. I cannot find a media source though.

https://twitter.com/HenryGraff/status/514132613255401472

Henry Graff ‏@HenryGraff

UPDATE: police say Jesse Matthew photo used in wanted poster was taken at the DMV on 9/19/14.

 

[Evie Ivy Over]

Someone with as much muscle as JM could easily weight 250 with no beer belly at all.

That's true, but JM is 6'2", and his "beer belly" does not seem to be slight, if you know what I mean. LOL~!!

 

[ILOKAL]

Those are really good questions. I still haven't quite made it over the "Wanted" poster hurdle though. I remember first reading it and laughing over how in the world LE could issue a poster for two counts of speeding, but apparently they can. Then I noticed the date under his photo reads September 19th. The very same day his car was under search and seizure then his apartment. The poster was released on Monday, and not surprisingly the charge for abduction was released the next day. If that initial search yielded no obvious evidence to arrest/detain him for questioning, why and how did they get a mug shot on that very same day? A few posters here informed me that this was a DVM photo taken because he went that day to renew his DL. I cannot find a media source though. Maybe this is how LE rolls in VA? In the Midwest, we do not release any names or mug shots until a suspect is under arrest not wanted for questioning. Besides that too is disingenuous...he had already lawyered up and wasn't talking. The only reporter who seemed to call out LE on any of this was of the Washington Post:
At
Though such posters are usually reserved for situations when police are trying to track down suspected violent criminals, drug dealers, abductors and fugitives, the Charlottesville Police Department wants Jesse Leroy Matthew Jr., 32, on two counts of reckless driving. Matthew has not been charged with any crime related to Graham’s disappearance, and police have presented no evidence that a crime occurred.

Source: Police issue wanted poster...

While on the run, JLM WAS charged with Abduction with Intent to Defile and was a wanted fugitive which is why the Wanted Poster was produced. IMO