Luka Magotta AKA Eric Newman Trial, Week Nov 20, 2014 - Trial Thread #4

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... I have a feeling that the Ghomeshi Circus will overshadow Poor Luka for a while after today. Our English reporters may drop off again.
 
François Messier ‏@MessierSRC
The trial has resumed, but still without the jury. Ongoing debate since about 10h30.
Le procès #Magnotta a repris, mais toujours hors jury. Débat en cours depuis environ 10h30.

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji 1m1 minute ago
#Magnotta trial has resumed with continuation of this morning's legal debate without the jury. We've had about 30 min. of testimony today

:waiting:
 
I just got home. Is the jury still out?!

I guess LeClair really does not want the jury to see his client acting normally. The prosecution should be allowed to bring in every video LM appears in. I guess this explains why Warmington was never called by the defence. If he was, then the video would have also been brought in by the prosecution.

Yep...whatever you do LeClair, don't let that jury see that your client is weirdly, narcissistically normal. ;)

MOO
 
salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji 21m21 minutes ago
At long last, #Magnotta jury being called back. Crown to resume with its forensic psychiatry expert, Dr. Chamberland.

Stephane Giroux ‏@SGirouxCTV 20m20 minutes ago
#Magnotta resumes. Dr Chamberland testifying again in front of jury

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji 17m17 minutes ago
Chamberland talking about #Magnotta diagnosis of schizophrenia. Says important to see when first diagnosed and what were symptoms reported.

Stephane Giroux ‏@SGirouxCTV 14m14 minutes ago
At age 18, first doctors wondered if #Magnotta had schizophrenia or if he was faking

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji 13m13 minutes ago
Chamberland refers to med records. When #Magnotta was 18, crisis workers wondered if he had schizophrenia or if he was faking the symptoms.

Stephane Giroux ‏@SGirouxCTV 14m14 minutes ago
#Magnotta might have faked to get prescription drugs

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji 10m10 minutes ago
Another psychiatrist at the time thought #Magnotta was strange and felt he was looking for some secondary gain.

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji 3m3 minutes ago
Chamberland shows note #Magnotta wrote to get Ontario financial aid for mentally ill, in which he perfectly describes schizophrenia symptoms

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji 51s52 seconds ago
Chamberland: 1st mention #Magnotta schizophrenia = April 2001 but health workers suspected faking. 2nd=Aug 2001 paranoid schizophrenia (1/2)

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji 1m1 minute ago
(2/2) But in Aug 2001, drugs were involved, suspected suicide attempt. By Mar 2002, #Magnotta medical records say "chronic schizophrenia".

Michaël Nguyen ‏@MNguyenJDM 36s36 seconds ago
Basically , the witness is doing as the defense psychiatrists did and reads the medical record , but to show that #Magnotta was not schizophrenic. :)giggle:)
En gros, le témoin fait comme les psys de la défense et lit le dossier médical, mais pour montrer que #Magnotta p-e pas schizophrène.
 
salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 24m24 minutes ago
At long last, #Magnotta jury being called back. Crown to resume with its forensic psychiatry expert, Dr. Chamberland.

Stephane Giroux ‏@SGirouxCTV · 22m22 minutes ago
#Magnotta resumes. Dr Chamberland testifying again in front of jury

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 20m20 minutes ago
Chamberland talking about #Magnotta diagnosis of schizophrenia. Says important to see when first diagnosed and what were symptoms reported.

Stephane Giroux ‏@SGirouxCTV · 17m17 minutes ago
At age 18, first doctors wondered if #Magnotta had schizophrenia or if he was faking

Stephane Giroux ‏@SGirouxCTV · 17m17 minutes ago
#Magnotta might have faked to get prescription drugs

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 16m16 minutes ago
Chamberland refers to med records. When #Magnotta was 18, crisis workers wondered if he had schizophrenia or if he was faking the symptoms.

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 14m14 minutes ago
Another psychiatrist at the time thought #Magnotta was strange and felt he was looking for some secondary gain.

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji · 5m5 minutes ago
Chamberland shows note #Magnotta wrote to get Ontario financial aid for mentally ill, in which he perfectly describes schizophrenia symptoms
 
I can't believe that the jury is not going to be able to see one video of LM and what he's really like. :gaah:
 
Sounds like this doctor has his number. He wants to be labelled as schizophrenic when it suits his purpose and does not want to be when it does not. Then he chooses bi polar disorder. Which is probably closer to what he actually has.

MOO
 
salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji 3m3 minutes ago
Chamberland says evolution of diagnosis is "surprising". #Magnotta symptoms were far from being definitive, says witness.

suemontgomery ‏@MontgomerySue 2m2 minutes ago
Chamberland going over all the medical records of #Magnotta again. That’s right. Again. :)giggle:)

christianedesjardins ‏@chridesjardins 4m
Dr says that the symptoms at the time could have been from cocaine consumption
Dr Chamberland dit que les symptômes de #Magnotta à l'époque pouvaient provenir de consommation cocaïne.

Michaël Nguyen ‏@MNguyenJDM 5m5 minutes ago
According to Dr C, drug use could explain the symptoms Magnotts had in the early 2000s
Selon le Dr Chamberland, la drogue pourrait expliquer les symptômes qu'avaient #Magnotta dans le début des années 2000.

‏@chridesjardins 1m1 minute ago
Symptoms described by #Magnotta in 2002, similar to schizophrenia but can be as cocaine intoxication , said Dr. Chamberland .
Symptômes décrits par #Magnotta en 2002, ressemblent à schizophrénie, mais peut être aussi intoxication à cocaïne, dit le Dr Chamberland.

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC 2m2 minutes ago
In 2003, #Magnotta is hospitalized 12aine days. It describes symptoms consistent with schizophrenia OR coke consumption -Chamberland
En 2003, #Magnotta est hospitalisé 12aine de jours. Il décrit symptômes compatibles avec schizophrénie OU consommation de coke -

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC 56s57 seconds ago
Upon his arrival , he was described as agitated. Then, he was isolated, low morale . Cocaine withdrawal typical , according to Chamberland #Magnotta
Dès son arrivée, on l'avait décrit comme agité. Ensuite, c'est isolé, moral bas. Typique de sevrage de cocaïne, selon Chamberland #Magnotta

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC 2m2 minutes ago
A week after leaving hospital #Magnotta was hospitalized again with symptoms consistent with schizo OR cocaine -Chamberland
Une semaine après avoir reçu congé, #Magnotta est hospitalisé à nouveau avec symptômes compatibles avec schizo OU cocaïne -Chamberland

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji 2m2 minutes ago
Chamberland on #Magnotta 2003 hospital visit. Says could be due to cocaine use, not mental illness - especially since he was back 1 wk later

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC 1m1 minute ago
March 27, 2003 : Rouge Valley nurse wrote that #Magnotta fears that another patient is lying about, saying that he used crack
27 mars 2003: infirmière de Rouge Valley écrit que #Magnotta craint qu'un autre patient mente à son sujet en disant qu'il a utilisé du crack

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC 2m
But according Chamberland, it is unusual complaint qqun formula of the genre. One must ask why #Magnotta said that the nurse
Or selon Chamberland, il est inhabituel que qqun formule plainte du genre. Il faut se demander pourquoi #Magnotta a dit ça à l'infirmière

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC 48s49 seconds ago
" I am inclined to think that it's cocaine use " that explains these hospitalizations in 2003 -Chamberland #Magnotta
"Moi, j'ai tendance à penser que c'est plus la prise de cocaïne" qui explique ces hospitalisations en 2003 -Chamberland #Magnotta

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji 53s53 seconds ago
#Magnotta told nurse his roommate may lie and say he used cocaine. Chamberland says this is rare in schizophrenia patients.

Michaël Nguyen ‏@MNguyenJDM 1m1 minute ago
Were the symptoms in 2002 attributable to schizophrenia or cocaine? I am inclined to lean towards cocaine.
Les symptômes de #Magnotta en 2003 étaient-ils attribuables à schizophrénie ou cocaïne? "J'ai tendance à pencher vers la cocaïne", dit psy.

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji 37s37 seconds ago
Chamberland says he tends to think cocaine use, not schizophrenia, is behind #Magnotta hospital visits in 2003.
 
Here's an article about the phone calls made from JL's phone. Now if his phone was found in his apartment, and calls were made from it during the time period he was in LM's apartment, how did the phone get back to JL's apt? Did LM go to JL's apt and drop off the phone? Where were JL's keys? Did he have a wallet with him or did he leave it at home? Was anything taken from JL's apt? Like bank cards?

There is so much missing from this case. Why?

http://www.torontosun.com/2014/11/20/two-calls-made-from-jun-lins-phone-the-morning-he-was-butchered
 
Thanks to those updating this!!!

This latest witness has made my day a little better :) Seems to confirm what thought all along,it has mostly been an act,he's seen what benefits it would give him (disability payments/prescription drugs/government handouts,ATTENTION)

Not sure how it works in Canada?but being on disability here (UK) would keep employment agency etc off your back,left alone as such.housing help and what not.

Probably tried to emulate his dads behaviour too??!?
 
If he lived close by,maybe,,,,,due to the nature of his encounter with Maggotta he left his phone,wallet etc at home (doesn't explain where his keys were).

As the meeting was in a sense a freebie,maybe it was in back of his mind he might get robbed????Surely meeting someone from an ad on craiglist who you don't know properly youd be extra wary???
 
DaveNP said:
Thanks to those updating this!!!

This latest witness has made my day a little better :) Seems to confirm what thought all along,it has mostly been an act,he's seen what benefits it would give him (disability payments/prescription drugs/government handouts,ATTENTION)

Not sure how it works in Canada?but being on disability here (UK) would keep employment agency etc off your back,left alone as such.housing help and what not.

Probably tried to emulate his dads behaviour too??!?
Click to expand...

Totally agree with you. I'm sure google was his friend when it came to symptoms as well. I'm not sure he ever took meds either. Can anyone prove that any of the prescriptions he was given were ever filled? Other than the one where he took all the medication as a "suicide attempt" and went back to the hospital to tell them what he had done? Is there a pharmacy somewhere in Toronto with records of filling prescriptions for him? That is all computerized now. Where is that evidence? Just find the one where he picked up the Viagra and see if there were any other prescriptions filled. Can any of these anti psychotic or anti depressant drugs be sold on the street?

I think he's been pulling one very long prank on the mental health community for years for "secondary gain". Although I will concede to bi polar disorder. He does seem to have some of those traits.

MOO
 
Isabelle Richer ‏@IsabelleRicher 49s49 seconds ago
In the personality of #Magnotta Chamberland said there was this search for attention
Dans la personnalité de #Magnotta dit Chamberland, il y a cette recherche d'attention.

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC 2m2 minutes ago
People who are close to #Magnotta also doubted his symptoms in 2001 Chamberland . Believed he was looking for attention
Les gens qui sont proches de #Magnotta doutaient aussi de ses symptômes, en 2001, Chamberland. Croyaient qu'il cherchait de l'attention

Michaël Nguyen ‏@MNguyenJDM 3m3 minutes ago
The psychiatrist said that family #Magnotta has doubts about schizophrenia as possible that he learned from his father .

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji 2m2 minutes ago
Chamberland says #Magnotta family members doubted mental illness, thought he was seeking attention, had learned behaviour from his father.
Le psy rappelle que la famille de #Magnotta a des doutes sur la schizophrénie, que possible qu'il ait appris de son père.

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC 33s33 seconds ago
Is it possible to cure schizophrenia, that the first diagnosis was good ? It is possible, says Chamberland #Magnotta
Est-il possible de guérir de la schizophrénie, que le premier diagnostic était bon? C'est possible, dit Chamberland #Magnotta

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC 1m1 minute ago
but in the majority of cases, the schizophrenics still present negative symptoms. As Magnotta's father does.
Mais dans la majorité des cas, les schizophrènes présentent tjrs des symptômes négatifs. Comme le père de #Magnotta -Chamberland #Magnotta

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC 1m1 minute ago
Chamberland parle du Dr Tan, omni qui a suivi #Magnotta pndant six ans. Il a reconduit diagnostic de schizophrénie, dit-il


christianedesjardins ‏@chridesjardins 2m2 minutes ago
#Magnotta What characterizes schizo is the loss of capacity over time, as an early dementia, said Dr. Chamberland, eg Nelligan
#Magnotta Ce qui caractérise schizo, c'est la perte des capacités avec le temps, comme une démence précoce, dit Dr Chamberland, ex: Nelligan

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC 54s55 seconds ago
A schizophrenic tends to let go of hygiene plan. Or #Magnotta was more concerned about his appearance -Chamberland
Un schizophrène a tendance à se laisser aller sur le plan de l'hygiène. Or #Magnotta était plutôt soucieux de son apparence -Chamberland


François Messier ‏@MessierSRC 2m2 minutes ago
But Dr Tan speaks only rarely symptoms of schizophrenia . He treated him like a normal patient -Chamberland #Magnotta
Or le Dr Tan n'évoque que rarement des symptômes de schizophrénie. Il le traitait comme un patient normal -Chamberland #Magnotta

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji 1m1 minute ago
Chamberland says #Magnotta 's obsession w/his looks is actually the opposite of patients with schizophrenia, who often neglect appearance.

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC 1m1 minute ago
According to Chamberland, it is the personality of #Magnotta explains his concern vs appearance, not the dictates of his escort work
Selon Chamberland, c'est la personnalité de #Magnotta qui explique son souci vs apparence, pas les impératifs de son travail d'escorte
 
Anyone know under what legal basis LeClair was able to argue out that video even though two doctors went on and on about LM's schizophrenia and likely psychosis during the time frame in question?
 
Bipolar disorder can causes psychosis too by the way.
 
Kamille said:
Anyone know under what legal basis LeClair was able to argue out that video even though two doctors went on and on about LM's schizophrenia and likely psychosis during the time frame in question?
Click to expand...

The video was several months after the psychiatrist wanted to hospitalise LM. And he had no thought disorder at the time, just delusions according to his psychiatrist. So it doesn't really prove anything. You wouldn't have been able to tell if he had hallucinations or delusions unless he told you about them, so a video of him several months later doesn't prove anything really...
 
François Messier ‏@MessierSRC 2m2 minutes ago
#Magnotta Hospitalized in Miami, January 2011: he was described as highly organized in the mental examination notes Chamberland
#Magnotta hospitalisé à Miami, janvier 2011: il a été décrit comme ultra-organisé à l'examen mental, note Chamberland

salimah shivji ‏@salimah_shivji 1m1 minute ago
#Magnotta hospital visit in Miami 2011: discharge sheet says he was"ultra organized", denied hallucinations, Chamberland notes.

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC 2m2 minutes ago
#Magnotta Wrote to a lawyer, Salta, when he was on leave in Miami, Chamberland note. Blames Manny for all his woes
#Magnotta a écrit à un avocat, Me Salta, dès qu'il a eu son congé à Miami, note Chamberland. Blâmait alors Manny pour ses malheurs

François Messier ‏@MessierSRC 59s59 seconds ago
#Magnotta Was not happy that he had been considered to be suffering from a psychiatric problem after leave Miami -Chamberland
#Magnotta n'était pas content qu'on l'ait considéré comme souffrant d'un problème psychiatrique après congé à Miami -Chamberland

Michaël Nguyen ‏@MNguyenJDM 1m1 minute ago
Since the beginning pm , Dr. Chamberland goes through the #Magnotta medical record with an explanation other than schizophrenia
Depuis le début pm, le Dr Chamberland passe au travers du dossier médical de #Magnotta en donnant une explication autre que la schizophrénie

Michaël Nguyen ‏@MNguyenJDM 42s42 seconds ago
And it continues tomorrow. The trial #Magnotta is finished for today.
Et ça continue demain. Le procès #Magnotta fini pour aujourd’hui.
 
Rayemonde said:
The video was several months after the psychiatrist wanted to hospitalise LM. And he had no thought disorder at the time, just delusions according to his psychiatrist. So it doesn't really prove anything. You wouldn't have been able to tell if he had hallucinations or delusions unless he told you about them, so a video of him several months later doesn't prove anything really...
Click to expand...

Well it proves that he is concerned about his looks and likes to take care of himself, which contradicts the behaviour of a person with schizophrenia apparently. Also might go towards the comments about him pulling out his hair and needing transplants. Was he doing that back in 2008 as well?

MOO

MOO
 
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