Found Deceased UT - Kayelyn Louder, 30, Murray, 27 September 2014

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The 'eyewitness sighting' at presumably one of the east-side gates places Kayelyn as having walked across at least one of the three bridges over Little Cottonwood Creek located within the confines of the Willows property. Whether Kayelyn exited the Willows property and attempted to reenter the property at one of the gates or remained within the property and attempted to exit the property she would have had to cross a bridge over the creek. If Kayelyn had difficulty opening a gate to reenter the property it is plausible she attempted to reenter by traversing the creek and was knocked over by the then-high-and-forceful-rain-filled stream.

The P.I. or LE might have to execute a test of the stream. Simulating a rain-filled creek is out. They would have to wait until the spring rainy season and remain prepared for a similar-conditions day, where the creek flows @ 200 CFS to 300 CFS for one half-hour and drop a human-simulator mannequin from the bridge on Tonalea Drive ...this is located more or less equidistant between the east-side gates. I do not foresee them performing such a test but, who knows.

An alternative method is to measure depth along the entire creek path (focusing on the wider areas where 300 CFS might not raise the creek to the depth required to carry a person the full distance) on a similar-conditions day, and hope for the debris-filled areas to remain similar in condition as on Sept 27, 2014. Two+ feet minimum depth along the entire route might prove the possibility.

It is also possible Kayelyn (if the creek scenario is accurate) may have helped herself along the flow where necessary and something happened farther down stream that made it impossible for her to further help herself out of the situation.

The more I think about the entire situation, the closer I am to concluding this was only a tragic accident, caused by a mental health issue that led Kayelyn to finding herself in the water and unable to help herself. I do not believe this is a 'foul play' case.
 
ChuckMaureen said:
...They would have to wait until the spring rainy season and remain prepared for a similar-conditions day, where the creek flows @ 200 CFS to 300 CFS for one half-hour and drop a human-simulator mannequin from the bridge on Tonalea Drive ...this is located more or less equidistant between the east-side gates. I do not foresee them performing such a test but, who knows....
Click to expand...

Probably the most useful idea so far. Looking at the map it seems a stretch that the creek would carry a body past some of those spots. On the other hand, there are many large rivers where entire trees as well as smaller things, will travel more than a thousand miles. In your test the mannequin would get caught up occasionally. It would be a matter of doing the test 20 times and seeing how far it traveled each time.
--------

A few people mention some other names and there does seem to be quite a number of young women who go missing in the south.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...early-three-years-vanished-without-trace.html

There is a similar case http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...andy-Hall-Firefighter-32-Palm-Bay-17-Aug-2006 in addition to the other names mentioned.

These two cases both seem to likely have foul play involved. However the situation with Kayelyn it does look more accidental. Her 911 call, the slur in her voice and the very quick analytical observation to her roommate in the background something like "well then there must be two of them" seems to kind of point to drugs. And under stress, which is obvious, going to a creek to sit would be expected. And carelessness around the creek also expected. But anything is possible.

Some of the several cases mentioned on this page are probably accident/suicide, others more likely not.

Edit to add
I do not think it serves the family to have that investigator. That is a famously opportunistic profession, and in a case like this an unethical investigator can find an endless list of "one more lead that needs to be checked out" while the family feels obliged to go along out of loyalty to the victim. At the very least the investigator should be made to detail each expense precisely. An investigator might be wise if there is any clue or indication or trail, but otherwise it looks a bit vulturish.
 
BBM:

wdmcmahan said:
Dangit. I really hope this was acc I dental somehow. The thought keeps crossing my mind though, that... what if there really was someone trying to harm her and her pleas for help weren't taken seriously. :( Such a sad day.
Click to expand...

I can not help but wonder this myself. Oddly, I had a dream about the Jordan River last night...
It sure seems rather "convenient", all of this. I wonder if she truly was delusional, or if there was foul play. Unfortunately, its going to be really hard to determine this, depending on the state of decomp, etc.

(Amy Ahonen's partial remains were found scattered in the river in 2 different counties (facilitated by major flooding). Her case remains unsolved. I'm not sure we will ever know what happened to her.

(Link to Amy's case for anyone who is interested: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?144226-CO-Amy-Ahonen-38-Golden-08-July-2011

* the difference here is mental illness does not seem to be a possible factor, imo)
 
We're probably not ever going to know what really happened to her that day, no more than we have all of this time.

Toxicology reports will be of limited use due to the amount of time involved and the fact she was submerged in water.
The chemical changes in the body during decomposition will skew the test results all over the place.

Obviously, they must not have found any sign of trauma, such as a gunshot wound or a knife wound. Any damage to soft tissue would have been obliterated over time due to the decomp., eliminating signs of suffocation or strangulation.

This cause of death is probably going to be listed as "undetermined". It's a sad ending to what amounted to a huge mystery.

I agree with FleaSpirit above.....the so-called private-eye needs to quit bilking the family out of more money by creating "possible" scenarios and theories. They don't get paid when someone commits suicide or there is an accidental death and their services are no longer required. Creating suspicion and doubt is what keeps the cash register open.
 
ChuckMaureen said:
The 'eyewitness sighting' at presumably one of the east-side gates places Kayelyn as having walked across at least one of the three bridges over Little Cottonwood Creek located within the confines of the Willows property. Whether Kayelyn exited the Willows property and attempted to reenter the property at one of the gates or remained within the property and attempted to exit the property she would have had to cross a bridge over the creek. If Kayelyn had difficulty opening a gate to reenter the property it is plausible she attempted to reenter by traversing the creek and was knocked over by the then-high-and-forceful-rain-filled stream.

The P.I. or LE might have to execute a test of the stream. Simulating a rain-filled creek is out. They would have to wait until the spring rainy season and remain prepared for a similar-conditions day, where the creek flows @ 200 CFS to 300 CFS for one half-hour and drop a human-simulator mannequin from the bridge on Tonalea Drive ...this is located more or less equidistant between the east-side gates. I do not foresee them performing such a test but, who knows.

An alternative method is to measure depth along the entire creek path (focusing on the wider areas where 300 CFS might not raise the creek to the depth required to carry a person the full distance) on a similar-conditions day, and hope for the debris-filled areas to remain similar in condition as on Sept 27, 2014. Two+ feet minimum depth along the entire route might prove the possibility.

It is also possible Kayelyn (if the creek scenario is accurate) may have helped herself along the flow where necessary and something happened farther down stream that made it impossible for her to further help herself out of the situation.

The more I think about the entire situation, the closer I am to concluding this was only a tragic accident, caused by a mental health issue that led Kayelyn to finding herself in the water and unable to help herself. I do not believe this is a 'foul play' case.
Click to expand...

Have you seen this video? Kayelyn appears in it in different segments:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MEbqPnyUVw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzU14ayAC3Q
 
I can't get this sweet girl out of my head this weekend. Last night I was watching one of the tribute videos from her wake, over and over. RIP Kayelyn and prayers for peace to your family.
 
The videos celebrating your life are truly beautiful and touching, Kayelyn. You will be missed by so many and your story has now touched so many more. You were a blessing to this earth and you will not be forgotten. :candle:
 
Did I miss the link to her tribute video? If so can someone repost it. Thanks
 
My gosh this family sure has had a lot of big things to deal with over the last several years. So sad.
 
The family of a Utah woman whose body was found in a river wants police to investigate whether her death involved foul play, a family spokeswoman said Wednesday.

Authorities were awaiting autopsy results and have not yet determined the cause of death of 30-year-old Kayelyn Louder, who was last seen alive on Sept. 27 leaving her condo barefoot in the rain without her phone or keys.

Her cousin Amy Fugal said Louder appeared to be afraid of something before her disappearance, and family members think it's unlikely she died after accidently falling into a creek near her home in the Salt Lake City suburb of Murray.

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=33100240&ni...tah-river-call-death-suspicious&s_cid=queue-6
 
http://fox13now.com/2015/01/18/poli...-in-death-of-kayelyn-louder-family-disagrees/

“The police have told us from the beginning they don’t expect foul play, and we feel completely the opposite, we kind of feel like we are left to figure this out,” said Amy Fugal, Louder’s cousin. The family figures there’s no other way to explain how Louder got from her home in Murray to the Jordan River without using her car.

And they said she didn’t have bruises, scrapes or decomposition that would come if she fell in the creek behind her house and floated five miles to where she was found in the river. “We studied the creek and the river and walked up and down both of those and studied water levels and water flows, we’ve seen the debris and the flow not being capable to carry her for that long,” Fugal said.

And after seeing the body, the family also worries that the autopsy wasn’t thorough enough–especially for a possible homicide investigation. “Her body was filthy, it had moss, and dirt and leaves that we were really surprised were not cleaned up to examine her body really thoroughly to see if there were cuts or wounds or even bruising,” Fugal said.
Click to expand...
 
The family is going to have to let this go. This woman was behaving in a totally bizarre way before she vanished. Remember the roommate she had that had to reassure her numerous times on the 911 call that there wasn't anybody in the apartment with them ?
Remember how she called in a fight at the clubhouse the night before, and it turned out to be a group of people actually having a wedding ? No one was seen coming or going from her apartment the morning she vanished, except for her.

I feel bad for the family that they are still in need for answers, but those answers will probably never come. There wasn't even enough information to figure out what happened to her for over two months, much less to try and do forensic testing on a body that was in the water all of that time. Unless there was some kind of OBVIOUS trauma to her remains, such as a gunshot wound or knife wounds, I don't see how they will ever be able to say that someone was ultimately responsible for her death, other than her.
Even toxicology reports will be horribly skewed and distorted after the body was submerged in water for two months throughout the gradual process of decomposition.

If the private investigators the family hired are the ones pushing for this, then they should be ashamed of themselves. Quit bilking money out of the family and coming up with "imaginary scenarios" . If there is no evidence, then there is no evidence.
 
steelman said:
The family is going to have to let this go. This woman was behaving in a totally bizarre way before she vanished. Remember the roommate she had that had to reassure her numerous times on the 911 call that there wasn't anybody in the apartment with them ?
Remember how she called in a fight at the clubhouse the night before, and it turned out to be a group of people actually having a wedding ? No one was seen coming or going from her apartment the morning she vanished, except for her.

I feel bad for the family that they are still in need for answers, but those answers will probably never come. There wasn't even enough information to figure out what happened to her for over two months, much less to try and do forensic testing on a body that was in the water all of that time. Unless there was some kind of OBVIOUS trauma to her remains, such as a gunshot wound or knife wounds, I don't see how they will ever be able to say that someone was ultimately responsible for her death, other than her.
Even toxicology reports will be horribly skewed and distorted after the body was submerged in water for two months throughout the gradual process of decomposition.

If the private investigators the family hired are the ones pushing for this, then they should be ashamed of themselves. Quit bilking money out of the family and coming up with "imaginary scenarios" . If there is no evidence, then there is no evidence.
Click to expand...

I totally get what you're saying, but if it were my daughter, I'm not sure I could just "let this go". Such a sad story all the way around.


Sent from my iPhone 6 Plus using Tapatalk
 
Something is possibly off imo. It's kind of like Elisa Lam's case; I'm just not sure...

Any chance she was being drugged?
 
margarita25 said:
Something is possibly off imo. It's kind of like Elisa Lam's case; I'm just not sure...

Any chance she was being drugged?
Click to expand...

From http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisa_Lam


"Since her death, some person has been updating Lam's Tumblr blog. Her phone was not found either with her body or in her hotel room; it has been assumed to have been stolen at some time around her death. Whether the continued updates to her blog were facilitated by the theft of her phone or the work of a hacker is not known; nor is it known whether the updates are related to her death."

"Apart from the question of how she got the roof, others asked she could have gotten into the tank by herself. All four are 4-by-8-foot (1.2 by 2.4 m) cylinders propped up on concrete blocks;[43] there is no fixed access to them and hotel workers had to use a ladder to look at the water. They are protected by heavy lids that would be difficult to replace from within."

"The investigation had determined how Lam died, but did not offer an explanation as to how she got into the tank in the first place. Doors and stairs that access the hotel's roof are locked, with only staff having the passcodes and keys, and any attempt to force them would supposedly have triggered an alarm.[42] However, the hotel's fire escape could have allowed her to bypass those security measures, if she (or someone who might have accompanied here there) had known."

"Other viewers argued that the video had been tampered with before being made public. Despite the obscuring of the timestamp, they argued, parts had been slowed down, and they claimed nearly a minute of footage had been discreetly removed. This could have been done simply to protect the identity of someone who otherwise would be in the video but had little or nothing to do with the case, or to conceal evidence if Lam's disappearance and death had been the result of a criminal act."

- - - -

A previous poster had suggested putting a mannequin in the creek to see if it would travel as far as the body traveled.

If after dozens of attempts there was some part of the creek that it could never go downstream of, high water, low water etc, it would be reason to put substantial resources into an investigation.

Aside from that there doesn't seem like an obvious next step. A day spent looking for places that the body could not go downstream past might or might not find such a spot. But it is the next step if someone wanted to pursue the case. There do not seem to be glaring oddities as in the other case.
 
JusticeWillBeServed said:
From last month: "Autopsy completed on woman found in Jordan River, cause of death undetermined

While a cause of death was not determined, the medical examiner was able to confirm that Louder did not have any fatal or illegal substances in her system.


http://fox13now.com/2015/04/16/autop...-undetermined/"​





http://fox13now.com/2015/04/16/auto...-in-jordan-river-cause-of-death-undetermined/
Click to expand...


Note the phrase: "or illegal substances"

Were there significant "legal" substances?
 
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