PA - Shane Montgomery, 21, Philadelphia, 27 Nov 2014 #5

According to your post- you tend to believe that Shane was drunk - (like most of us.)
Despite the fact, his friends, his mother & the bar stated he was not drunk.

Also, cousin was separated from him so he didn't know his final condition at the end of the night, the mother on interviews says "supposedly he was not inebrieated" and in all honestly I believed myself what Kildaire's was reporting, but as we know this was not the case.
 
Also, cousin was separated from him so he didn't know his final condition at the end of the night, the mother on interviews says "supposedly he was not inebrieated" and in all honestly I believed myself what Kildaire's was reporting, but as we know this was not the case.

This is something that still annoys me to no end. I understand Kildare's is going to lie about Shane's condition and I think Shane's original group wasn't with him toward the end of the night. But Why has no one come forward saying they saw Shane or were with Shane toward the end of the night and saw him drunk or stumbling inside Kildares? Or witnessed his condition when he bumped into the DJ stuff? Even if they were too drunk to realize Shane's condition, why hasnt someone come forward and said they were at least drinking with him? Who was he with when he got very drunk to the point of stumbling??? Was he by himself?? Talking to a stranger?? Did he get roofied?? Either he was alone or someone didnt come forward or someone did come forward but didnt tell the full story,,,,,,, b/c I would think a friend or neighborhood buddy would have come forward and informed the family of Shane's condition.

Does anyone know what time the drinks from the 17 dollar tab were bought? Im just trying to figure out what time we know he was probably drinking from his tab and maybe figure out if someone else was buying him drinks later on....idk
 
Here's an article on river drownings WRT body location when found vis a vis the place where the body entered the river. And there are other interesting readings:

http://www.operationtakemehome.org/sar/Fire and Rescue Personnel/Biology of drowning.pdf

This is one of the reasons I am suspicious about this being an accident. I feel like the keys were too far out [30 ft out] from potential entry points and from where Shane was found [10 ft out]. It makes me think the keys were thrown which would probably indicate a suicide, or less likely but possibly foul play, situation. I think some have suggested he could have dropped the keys and then accidentally fell in later but im pretty confident that didnt happen because then the keys would have been closer to the edge. And if he accidentally drowned close to the edge, from the sounds of this article the body doesnt travel out too far, so its a bit unlikely his body would have been taken out to 30 ft for the keys to fall out of his pocket, right?
 
This is one of the reasons I am suspicious about this being an accident. I feel like the keys were too far out [30 ft out] from potential entry points and from where Shane was found [10 ft out]. It makes me think the keys were thrown which would probably indicate a suicide, or less likely but possibly foul play, situation. I think some have suggested he could have dropped the keys and then accidentally fell in later but im pretty confident that didnt happen because then the keys would have been closer to the edge. And if he accidentally drowned close to the edge, from the sounds of this article the body doesnt travel out too far, so its a bit unlikely his body would have been taken out to 30 ft for the keys to fall out of his pocket, right?

Maybe there is some miscommunication here:
KevinC I have a quick question for you.
As it's hard to interpret by a post or comment.
When you say, the keys were 30 ft. out into the water - do you mean 30 feet from the rivers edge, meaning the river bank. Or 30 feet from the end of the retaining wall?
I was led to believe 10 feet from the end of the wall- which in turn would be 30 feet if you included the length of the actual wall. As the wall extends the parking lot and juts into the water. I just wanted some clarification to be clear. It has nothing to do with believing what you say- it's about fact & science.
 
This is one of the reasons I am suspicious about this being an accident. I feel like the keys were too far out [30 ft out] from potential entry points and from where Shane was found [10 ft out]. It makes me think the keys were thrown which would probably indicate a suicide, or less likely but possibly foul play, situation. I think some have suggested he could have dropped the keys and then accidentally fell in later but im pretty confident that didnt happen because then the keys would have been closer to the edge. And if he accidentally drowned close to the edge, from the sounds of this article the body doesnt travel out too far, so its a bit unlikely his body would have been taken out to 30 ft for the keys to fall out of his pocket, right?

I too cannot comprehend how keys would end up 20 feet away. Keys sink. They don't travel by themselves. They'll land where they're dropped. Even if there is a strong current. Unless there is massive flooding then things from the bottom can be stirred around.
 
This may be another reason that Shane was "stumbling" over the bridge:

"In slow hypothermia, by the time body temperature drops to 90°F (32°C) both the central and peripheral nervous systems are impaired, primarily due to decreased blood flow to the brain (6-7% per °C18): People are physically and mentally clumsy, show decreased sensitivity to pain, have slowed reflexes, and may hallucinate. Thus, a medical school mnemonic for hypothermia symptoms: “stumbles, mumbles, fumbles, and grumbles,” which summarizes changes in motor coordination and consciousness.

Sleepiness (“cold narcosis”) occurs at around 86°F (30°C) core temperature. At around 81°F (27°C), people stop responding to verbal commands, and some reflexes (such as the reaction of eye pupils to light) stop working entirely. Knee jerk is the last reflex to go,j19 at 79°F (26°C). The body’s temperature-regulating mechanisms also fail and there is quick cooling until the body reaches ambient temperature. However, there is the usual individual variability, with recorded reflexes as low as 68°F (20°C)"

With his low body fat and minimal protective clothing, he may very well have begun experiencing the effects of hypothermia.

The body, when exposed to cold/frigid temperatures lessens blood flow to the extremities by constricting blood vessels and increases flow to the core to protect internal organs. Add alcohol to that mix and we have a slight deviation from that built-in protection where alcohol causes the constriction to reduce slightly and allow more blood back to the extremities ... that is why one feels a 'warm flush' after drinking a shot.

Based on the time we were told Shane left Kildare's (~1:50 AM) and when we were told he is seen on video entering the parking lot (~2:09 AM) Shane could have been exposed to 33ºF wind chill for up to 19 minutes so it is possible Shane began to experience early stage hypothermia that includes shivering. Slowed or slurred speech is possible but I am not entirely sure about "stumbling".

!! shane - hypothermia.png

It is possible but based on personal experience when I was that age I can not accept that premise. We tolerate cold much better when we are younger:

!! shane - hypothermia age.png

What concerns me is Shane was not exposed long enough to experience to Stage 2 - Stage 3 hypothermia before he is seen on video ... it just does not occur that quickly in younger folk (in air temperatures recorded for that evening).

We do not know how long Shane was in the parking lot before he entered in to the river, and that would paint a different picture. Shane, IMO, entered the parking lot under his own reasoning, *despite* the temperature, not because of it.
 
Maybe there is some miscommunication here:
KevinC I have a quick question for you.
As it's hard to interpret by a post or comment.
When you say, the keys were 30 ft. out into the water - do you mean 30 feet from the rivers edge, meaning the river bank. Or 30 feet from the end of the retaining wall?
I was led to believe 10 feet from the end of the wall- which in turn would be 30 feet if you included the length of the actual wall. As the wall extends the parking lot and juts into the water. I just wanted some clarification to be clear. It has nothing to do with believing what you say- it's about fact & science.
Maybe Kevin can clarify but what you are saying is making sense when it comes to that 10 ft vs 30 ft confusion..........sounds like they were 10 ft from the wall which is equal to 30 ft from the river bank.

An accident from the embankment and the keys ending up 30 ft out aka 10 ft from the wall.........to me, it doesnt seem likely the keys would end up that far out.

An accident from the ledge and the keys ending up 30 ft out aka 10 ft from the wall..........that sounds more possible than the above when it comes to where the keys end up, but i still have a hard time placing a stumbling man in the dark and in snow up on that ledge to pee or smoke in the first place.
 
Scientically, it makes sense if the wall was the point of entry. Body traveled a ways on the surface in the current. He was found approx. 10 feet from the rivers edge. Ultimately water entered his lungs enough to cause drowning in front of the brew pub. A quarter of a mile is a long way to travel in my opinion, but it's possible, he was traveling along the current trying to survive. If shane was a non-swimmer & doesn't know how to swim, I doubt it would be possible. He would drown where he entered, or at least in close proximity.
If he could swim, then it's easier to comprehend he was fighting the current.
I can tell you by experience- the current can be strong. I found myself way down river on many days, far away from my dock, fighting a current. I can't even imagine, fighting it in the darkness, with clothes & sneakers on, freezing water temperatures and drunk. I probably would not survive.
 
I haven't seen or heard it discussed in the media or on this website. What (if anything) did Shane have to eat either before he went out with his friends and/or while he was out. Drinkers (especially those on a binge ) given the choice of spending money on food or alcohol would usually chose alcohol. Alcohol consumption can lower blood sugar and cause hypoglycemia. Symptoms of hypoglycemia are:

Confusion
Dizziness
Feeling shaky
Hunger
Headaches
Irritability
Pounding heart; racing pulse
Pale skin
Sweating
Trembling
Weakness
Anxiety

This condition could also cause a person to become disoriented and unsteady on their feet.
 
Hi, I'm new here, I've been following this case since the very beginning, especially, I guess since I live in Roxborough. Originally I thought maybe he had left, voluntarily because maybe he was depressed couldn't handle the pressures. I thought this I think, one because I was hoping and two because of the immediate and urgent response from his family, plus his drug/alcohol habits. Now that they have indeed found him in the river, I am leaning towards suicide for a few reasons, the immediate urgent response fro his family, the devastation that his parents had upon viewing him cross the bridge toward the parking lot/river, the distance of his keys and the tweet his cousin put up the day they found him, something about not making a permanent decision off of a temporary emotion. Plus while missing, his cousin said something about kicking his *advertiser censored** when shane comes back (hopefully and angry maybe?) and the fact that his cousin also said that his walk home from work will never be the same (seems to KNOW that shane is gone?) just my opinion, but that is how I am leaning.

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This is something that still annoys me to no end. I understand Kildare's is going to lie about Shane's condition and I think Shane's original group wasn't with him toward the end of the night. But Why has no one come forward saying they saw Shane or were with Shane toward the end of the night and saw him drunk or stumbling inside Kildares? Or witnessed his condition when he bumped into the DJ stuff? Even if they were too drunk to realize Shane's condition, why hasnt someone come forward and said they were at least drinking with him? Who was he with when he got very drunk to the point of stumbling??? Was he by himself?? Talking to a stranger?? Did he get roofied?? Either he was alone or someone didnt come forward or someone did come forward but didnt tell the full story,,,,,,, b/c I would think a friend or neighborhood buddy would have come forward and informed the family of Shane's condition.

Does anyone know what time the drinks from the 17 dollar tab were bought? Im just trying to figure out what time we know he was probably drinking from his tab and maybe figure out if someone else was buying him drinks later on....idk

BBM: We don't know who reached out to LE. They could have had many phone calls letting them know what they saw or heard. Also, based on that youtube video of Kildare's the place was dark, strobe lights, people drinking and dancing which is typical for a night club atmosphere. It's not beyond comprehension that none of the other patrons were paying attention to Shane in particular.
 
BBM: We don't know who reached out to LE. They could have had many phone calls letting them know what they saw or heard. Also, based on that youtube video of Kildare's the place was dark, strobe lights, people drinking and dancing which is typical for a night club atmosphere. It's not beyond comprehension that none of the other patrons were paying attention to Shane in particular.
I mean friends or neighborhood people that he wouldve been hanging with at the end of his time at Kildares. The reason I believed no one came forward about the end of his time at Kildares is based on the parents early belief that Shane left the bar in good condition. Shane's uncle said they got that information from Kildares staff. I would have thought anyone who was friendly with Shane would have come forward and said otherwise.
 
They weren't with him towards the end of the night. So maybe that's why. They really didn't know.
 
I've been following Shane's case from the beginning but haven't posted before. First, I just want to say that my heart breaks for the family. I've also been following Paul's case so I'm trying to catch up, but was wondering if the toxicology tests specifically test for roofies? Sorry if I missed this in a previous post. Thanks!
 
great question. That has not been discussed. And Welcome!
 
It would be helpful if someone in the know could let us know if Shane sustained cervical fractures or skull fractures. IMO they would rule in/out a fall/accident.

I also wonder if there were some hijinx going on and someone thought they would be cute and throw his keys in the water. Or threw them in after Shane fell in and split. IMO someone out there knows something and is afraid to come forward in fear of being arrested, even though their actions were not malicious.

I don't believe Shane committed suicide. IMO
 
I am still having a real problem, like I think "takeittothebank" is also having. I can not get past why Shane was there in the first place, and I think that is why I lean toward foul play or suicide. With foul play or suicide it gives me a reason, kinda, why he was by that river, on that ledge or wherever that night. If he set out deliberately to meet someone to buy something, smoke, hookup, etc, that gives him a reason for being there. And then maybe, something went horribly wrong. Foulplay?????

If it was suicide, well then that is his reason enough to go down to the river. I'm sorry kevin, I know it must add more hurt to hear suggestions of suicide. It can really be haunting for family and friends. "Why didn't we see it?" "Why did he not tell someone?" And so on. People do a wonderful job of hiding feelings of suicide. No one really knows what is going on in another's life regardless how close you may be. Does anyone know how his grades were? He was entering his final semester for graduation. He was at the end of the current semester, so if he was failing one or two subjects there is a chance he may not graduate in May. There could be a whole host of things, or, nothing in particular, just good ole clinical depression. Kevin, I know how much you hurt. And I mean no disrespect, but maybe you are just a little too close to Shane and the situation to see it 100% clearly.
With suicide or foul play, in my mind, that gives him a legit reason to be back there. I wouldn't care how bad I had to pee, or how much I wanted to smoke that joint, even if it was the best stuff in the county, you would not have gotten me to walk way back by that river on such a freezing, icy, slippery, rainy cold cold night. Especially if I am only wearing jeans and a hoodie.

Suicide is always a tough pill to swallow. Probably because it seems the most preventable. Again, if only we knew. I mentioned that very old, dear friends of mine lost their daughter to suicide 2 years after their son was killed. The parents always tell everyone that she committed suicide because she could not deal with the loss of her brother. Truth of the matter is, this young woman battled most of her young, short life with depression and other issues. Oh yes, she worked, had friends and a boyfriend. It wasn't outwardly obvious what was going on. I knew because I knew the family so well. I knew her since she was 5 yrs old. She was an absolutely gorgeous young gal. And although the parents were always very open regarding her issues, in the case of her suicide, they will only say she did it because of her brother being killed. They will never, ever just admit that it was suicide brought on by clinical depression that so many suffer from. It tough, and oh, so sad.
 
It would be helpful if someone in the know could let us know if Shane sustained cervical fractures or skull fractures. IMO they would rule in/out a fall/accident.

I also wonder if there were some hijinx going on and someone thought they would be cute and throw his keys in the water. Or threw them in after Shane fell in and split. IMO someone out there knows something and is afraid to come forward in fear of being arrested, even though their actions were not malicious.

I don't believe Shane committed suicide. IMO
I thought of that scenario a hijinks scenario like someone pushing him like what's up man or messing around. But no one has come forward
 

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