NYC - 'Numerous' fatalities in train collision, fire

[al66pine]

Seems like common sense, but maybe some drivers or pedestrians could benefit from reviewing what they should do.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/05/ny...pgtype=article. From link:
"Rule number one, of course, is get as far away from the tracks as possible. But some experts say there is a particular direction you should try to run: Away from the tracks at a 45 degree angle, in the direction from which the train is coming.“That actually means run toward the train,” said Joyce Rose, president of Operation Lifesaver, a nonprofit rail safety education group. “I know it seems counterintuitive, but this is to avoid being hit by flying debris. When you run toward the train, you run away from the site of the potential collision.”

• "It is better to take an angle, rather than run directly parallel to the tracks, because trains can overhang the tracks by about three feet on each side, Ms. Rose said.

According to the most recent annual data from the Federal Railroad Administration, in 2013, 142 people were killed and 733 were injured when trains crashed into motor vehicles....

Of course, the safest possible scenario is not to be in that situation at all. Safety advocates emphasize that drivers sitting in traffic, for example, should be sure there is enough room to clear the tracks before they move forward, rather than staying on the tail of the car in front just because the light is green." bbm sbm (Sorry for formatting glitches)

 

[jjenny]

I have this feeling she may have panicked and thought she was in reverse to back away from the tracks and hit the gas that drove the suv forward.This happens with elderly people that drive into the front of businesses by hitting the gas and not in reverse.


I quoted the wrong post.

But those are usually very elderly drivers and she certainly wasn't that old.
I personally think she tried to beat the train. Why she thought she could do it I have no idea.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

'She was not careless': Friends defend mother of three whose SUV got stuck on tracks and caused NY train crash that killed five, as witnesses describe waiting for her to reverse before tragedy struck

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-crash-killed-five-others.html#ixzz3QskqpHkd

 

[Fifth Avenue]

Driver in Metro-North crash was Jewish mother of 3 from Scarsdale, N.Y. "She was a woman who always saw the glass half full, cheerful, an amazing mother with three kids, always helping her husband,”

http://t.co/qzw0QTC00o




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[nrdsb4]

Rule number one, of course, is get as far away from the tracks as possible. But some experts say there is a particular direction you should try to run: Away from the tracks at a 45 degree angle, in the direction from which the train is coming.“That actually means run toward the train,” said Joyce Rose, president of Operation Lifesaver, a nonprofit rail safety education group. “I know it seems counterintuitive, but this is to avoid being hit by flying debris. When you run toward the train, you run away from the site of the potential collision.”

Okay, that makes so much sense, and it's probably the last thing I would think to do. Although I guess it's still no guarantee if the train comes off the tracks near you. But thanks for posting.

 

[wendybtn]

I do not care if the traffic is bumper to bumper, or I am the only car I see on the road. Never stop on train tracks. Wait until you are 100% sure there is room for you on the other side before you move up. If this upsets other drivers behind you, let them pull ahead and wait on the tracks. Never let it be you. I slow down at every piddling RR crossing I pass and look both ways even in the middle of nowhere where the tracks look like they were last used in 1900. Such a small bit of time to prevent so much tragedy.

 

[SDkid]

Suicide? Was she having marital issues?

 

[jjenny]

Nothing at all suggests suicide.

 

[mitzi]

Another thing I do at RR tracks: I see so many pullright up to the gate that is down...what if that train suddenly derailed? Their car could be crushed! If I am the front car, I stay at least a car length, sometimes two car lengths back from the gate. If people behind me don't like it, too bad...It's not like if you are closer, you will get over quicker once the train has passed.

 

[lawstudent]

At first I somewhat got the outrage aimed at the driver. But now that they give the timing of everything, it sounds more understandable. The lights go off a few seconds before the gates start. What if she did have room to clear (probably not as much as she should have but still), and was starting to right before the lights started. She would have missed them if they were behind her and not obvious on the other side. Then the gate comes down, and if she can't see the lights flashing, she gets confused and goes back to see why they fell. Realizing she can't move it, she drives forward to get out of it.

There was obviously a lot of space between the gates if she had to drive 10 feet forward and the first was on the back of her car. I guess it is a stretch, but everyone describes her as being totally unworried. To me, that doesn't go along with "wanting to beat the train and worried about the damage to her car." She can't be that clueless. She seems to have had no idea the train was coming. That's why I wonder if she was in a position where the signals were just not obvious, especially if she didn't usually go through the intersection.

I'm terrified of train tracks and never take a chance. But if that somehow did happen to me, I know I'd panic because it wouldn't occur to me to back up and smash the gate - that just isn't my natural reaction. I would probably get out and run, but if there was enough room and I didn't see the train, I'd probably try and gun it forward. If I were actually on the tracks, I wouldn't want to leave my car there to hurt others, and I'd probably definitely go forward. It seems like she wasn't even looking for the train - I just feel like somehow she didn't process what was going on. I know it sounds weird, but either way it is weird. I would definitely look first, although at that speed it is hard to judge, and I would *not* get out to check the damage. And if I saw a guy backing up, that would probably trigger me to back up and smash the gate. But there is a good possibility she did not really notice what the other driver was doing.

She probably was not as careful as she should have been in leaving room, but it just seems like she really didn't know somehow. I despise people who block intersections, and wait until i have full clearance before going through a green, even if people honk. But a few times I've been sure I can make it, and then somehow the car in front of me slams on its brakes or someone wants to take a turn, and I get stuck. I feel so bad when it happens, but I can't prevent that unless I stop at every green until the person in front of me is far away. Of course, I'd be way more hesitant around train tracks. But sometimes things just go awry and people get worked up and tragedies happen. It can happen to anyone, one way or another.

 

[jjenny]

I fail to see how she could have missed that the train was coming. Everything was working as it should. The guy behind her knew the train was coming. He backed up to give her room to back up.
How could she possibly not figure that out?
And aren't everybody trained to look for the train on the intersection while training for a driver's license? I know I was told to slow down and look before crossing.

 

[lawstudent]

I fail to see how she could have missed that the train was coming. Everything was working as it should. The guy behind her knew the train was coming. He backed up to give her room to back up.
How could she possibly not figure that out?
And aren't everybody trained to look for the train on the intersection while training for a driver's license? I know I was told to slow down and look before crossing.

It does seem pretty hard to believe, but her behavior makes me consider it was somehow a possibility. Everything was working as it should, but the lights and gates come down in a matter of seconds - anyone approaching the tracks should be well aware, but if the front of her car had passed through just before this happened, she would not have the visual. And I think the other gate was one-side only to give people room to clear if they got caught - so it wouldn't be directly in front of her.

Maybe she thought that was the second gate or something, and she'd gone over the tracks? I don't know. It is weird. The guy behind her was clearly behind the gate and lights, so he definitely could see - she was further up. And I think it is quite possible she did not notice what he was doing, since he says it was dark and she didn't acknowledge him. Or, maybe she thought he was backing up because he was on the tracks, and she'd cleared them? If she was confused about which gate it was. Not sure how clear the tracks are at night. But she should have known she hadn't gone over them since they are bumpy.


There are not many of these crossings near where I live, but the few times I've encountered one, the lights start well in advance of the gate, there is little room between the gates, and the gates come down very slowly and obviously. I've never seen anyone get stuck or try to race them - it is hard to miss. But these are usually low traffic areas, so no one would really get stuck. Maybe it is a matter of perception, but I always thought the lights came on well before anything else, but in this case it was 3-5 seconds? I mean, that should be enough time, but it seems like they should go off a bit longer, and then more intensely after the gates close, especially at night. It's hard to understand how she didn't see the flashing lights, but I just don't know if they would be obvious if she was already past them.

I think everyone is told that, yes, but how many people actually remember and/or follow all of that? I still have no idea what hand signals to use with bikers etc., and you have people doing all kinds of stupid stuff they know is a problem - speeding, DUI, expired plates, etc.

 

[jjenny]

What did she think the gate came down for? From what the guy behind her said, when she first stopped after the gate hit her car, she wasn't yet on the tracks.
After she got out of the car, she got back in and for whatever reason proceeded right onto the tracks into upcoming train.
It's hard to figure out what she was thinking.

 

[al66pine]

What did she think the gate came down for? From what the guy behind her said,
when she first stopped after the gate hit her car, she wasn't yet on the tracks.
After she got out of the car, she got back in and for whatever reason proceeded right onto the tracks into upcoming train....

bbm sbm

Not sure if I found the right spot on GoogleEarth: Commerce St, Valhalla, NY 1059541.081982,-73.784866 (maybe Mount Pleasant NY?)
If this ^ is it, the two RR tracks are close together, guesstimating 5' - 8'. Can see both gate-arms too.
Once her car had a gate arm down behind it, while touching it, seems like front bumper would be on first set of tracks.

Sorry, can't get the aerial map to copy here. Anyone?

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

New York officials planned more warning lights on tracks before deadly train accident

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/02/0...tracks-before-deadly-train/?intcmp=latestnews

 

[jjenny]

bbm sbm

Not sure if I found the right spot on GoogleEarth: Commerce St, Valhalla, NY 1059541.081982,-73.784866 (maybe Mount Pleasant NY?)
If this ^ is it, the two RR tracks are close together, guesstimating 5' - 8'. Can see both gate-arms too.
Once her car had a gate arm down behind it, while touching it, seems like front bumper would be on first set of tracks.

Sorry, can't get the aerial map to copy here. Anyone?

The gate arm was not behind the car, it was on top of the car (when she first stopped). From what the guy behind her says, her front bumper was right at the edge of the tracks. She got out of the car, she got back in, and moved the car forward into the path of the train. What she should have done is backed it up a little bit.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

The gate arm was not behind the car, it was on top of the car (when she first stopped). From what the guy behind her says, her front bumper was right at the edge of the tracks. She got out of the car, she got back in, and moved the car forward into the path of the train. What she should have done is backed it up a little bit.

What she should have done is not gotten back in the car.

If she had walked back from the car and just let it go, Most likely it would not have been the accident it was and she would be alive.

 

[jjenny]

What she should have done is not gotten back in the car.

If she had walked back from the car and just let it go, Most likely it would not have been the accident it was and she would be alive.

She could still be alive, but if the car was close enough for the train to still hit it, hardly seems like a good solution to me. She could have been charged and sued for abandoning her car resulting in an accident.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

She could still be alive, but if the car was close enough for the train to still hit it, hardly seems like a good solution to me. She could have been charged and sued for abandoning her car resulting in an accident.

But it would not have been a full on hit as it was when she moved forward. Her car was in the way. She would not have been charged for getting out of the car and saving her life.

 

[jjenny]

But it would not have been a full on hit as it was when she moved forward. Her car was in the way. She would not have been charged for getting out of the car and saving her life.

She had time to back up. It would have been faster to back up than to get out of the car. And a lot safer for people on the train. So I really don't understand why she should have walked away from the car potentially endangering people on the train instead of backing up not endangering anybody. Her car wasn't stalled.