Found Deceased FL - Tammy Alexander, 16, Brooksville, 8 Nov 1979

[Still_Seek_Answers]

Various thoughts:

The 'guy at the diner' was (presumably) said to be 5'8" to 5'9" tall. I didn't find anything suggesting weight.. so I'll assume he was "average". A guy that size doesn't wear a "large" jacket, does he? Wouldn't that be more "medium"?

Many people often buy jackets that are a little larger than their actual size to allow for the clothing you wear underneath.

Ret Sheriff York apparently said that his office had concluded that Tammy Jo Alexander had been travelling the New York State Thruway... because the heart/key keychains were believed to have been purchased in a vending machine - I assume at one of the travel plazas. If so, what makes you get off the NYS thruway and go to Lima to eat? (Instead of simply stopping at another travel plaza which are pretty frequent = maybe every 30 miles or so.) Possibly, familiarity with the area?

The key rings were a common item back in the 70's. It is quite possible Tammy might have even gotten it from the truck stop her family ran. They were just common things girls picked up most anywhere.

The 'guy at diner' was driving a wood paneled station wagon; there was allegedly a report of a couple arguing on a roadside in the area (with a wood paneled station wagon). Quite a coincidence in a rural area. However, that red jacket is pretty "bright". If I called to report the roadside argument, I'm fairly certain that I'd mention "the woman was wearing a red jacket".

No, the guy at the diner was not seen driving the station wagon. The waitress stated she saw them leave, but she did not see what they left in. The only time the car was seen was at the roadside where a couple were seen arguing. Nobody has ever been able to connect either the couple or the car to Tammy jo.

"No attempt to hide the body"; "the road was busier then"; It appears that she was just off the shoulder of the road (not really a far 'drag' IMO). Nobody saw her overnight... or in the morning - until 10am?

The cornfield was lower than the road. The land there graded slightly downwards, plus few people driving by would probably take notice if they caught a glimpse of something red in a cornfield.

"Heavy rain" washed away everything except a single spot of blood on the road? Was the blood confirmed to be that of Tammy Jo Alexander?

Yes

Presumably, Tammy Jo Alexander ate ~2 hours before she was killed. Law enforcement apparently indicated that they checked as far away as Hopewell, NY... but that is barely a one hour distance - if even that.

I would love to know what kept them in the area for those 2 hours. Where were they and what were they doing? Nobody has ever came forward and admitted to seeing them during that time.

I've never been in the situation, but to have a gun pointed at my face and not flee it would have to occur extremely/lightning fast, or I'd have to absolutely 100% believe with certainty that the shooter would not pull the trigger. Someone I trusted. I wonder if Tammy Jo Alexander was comfortable around firearms?

I do not know if she was comfortable around firearms, and this following statement is JMHO....I know it is possible that her killer brought the gun up and shot her before she could even flinch.....but, I wonder if maybe it was an abusive boyfriend who had put a gun in her face before. Maybe she just did not think he'd actually shoot her, because he had put that gun to her head before? The added shot in the back shows that he was certainly filled with rage.

 

[four4rock]

"A necklace and key rings found on Tammy Alexander. According to former sheriff John York, he said on Jan. 28, 2015, the key chains were purchased in a vending machine on the Thruway."

"On the girl's belt loops hung two keychains. One was inscribed with the words, "He who holds the Key can open my heart." The keychains were sold at vending machines along the New York state Thruway, leading investigators to conclude that she and her killer had traveled that route."

Both of the above quotes came from a February 1, 2015 article in the Rochester Democrat & Chronicle.

And, SSA, thank you for the clarification about the station wagon sighting(s). Makes a huge difference. Thank you.

Also, if they were in the area for an hour or two, it'd almost have to be in either in Lima or Avon (IMO). Usually I'd say check the bars... but there was no alcohol in her system, right? [Yes, I know she was under age, but honestly at 16 getting in to a rural bar in WNY in 1979 was a piece of cake... especially if you were female and with someone older!] Friday night. 1979. Lima/Avon, NY area. What to do? Friday night lights? Was that hotel in Lima operating at that point (sorry, I cannot think of it's name)?

 

[Roselvr]

Various thoughts:

The 'guy at the diner' was (presumably) said to be 5'8" to 5'9" tall. I didn't find anything suggesting weight.. so I'll assume he was "average". A guy that size doesn't wear a "large" jacket, does he? Wouldn't that be more "medium"?

Ret Sheriff York apparently said that his office had concluded that Tammy Jo Alexander had been travelling the New York State Thruway... because the heart/key keychains were believed to have been purchased in a vending machine on the NYS thruway- I assume at one of the travel plazas. I'd expect that one could determine if they were new from the edges/mould die marks. If so, what makes you get off the NYS thruway and go to Lima to eat? (Instead of simply stopping at another travel plaza which are pretty frequent = maybe every 30 miles or so.) Possibly, familiarity with the area?

The 'guy at diner' was driving a wood paneled station wagon; there was allegedly a report of a couple arguing on a roadside in the area (with a wood paneled station wagon). Quite a coincidence in a rural area. However, that red jacket is pretty "bright". If I called to report the roadside argument, I'm fairly certain that I'd mention "the woman was wearing a red jacket".

"No attempt to hide the body"; "the road was busier then"; It appears that she was just off the shoulder of the road (not really a far 'drag' IMO). Nobody saw her overnight... or in the morning - until 10am?

"Heavy rain" washed away everything except a single spot of blood on the road? Was the blood confirmed to be that of Tammy Jo Alexander?

A full size station wagon (if that's what it was) of that era probably had a good size V8; ran at ~15-18 MPG highway; with a 20-25 gallon tank. A range of 300 to 400 miles I'm guessing. Had to get gas somewhere.

Presumably, Tammy Jo Alexander ate ~2 hours before she was killed. Law enforcement apparently indicated that they checked as far away as Hopewell, NY... but that is barely a one hour distance - if even that.

I've never been in the situation, but to have a gun pointed at my face and not flee it would have to occur extremely/lightning fast, or I'd have to absolutely 100% believe with certainty that the shooter would not pull the trigger. Someone I trusted. I wonder if Tammy Jo Alexander was comfortable around firearms?

One thing that I can not understand is the waitress noticed the guy but not Tammy. I have always found it very strange because let's face it; I knew Cali was a good looking gal & now that we know it is Tammy & see her pics; she was a very attractive gal. Women are always sizing up the competition (so to speak)... I could not understand how the waitress didn't do that.

A guy 5'8" to 5'9" may take a large; I know I did. I have a Mustang Club jacket from back then; I always bought a large.

I've always felt they got off of the thruway because that was the area they were going to; or were passing through to another town that would be off of those roads.

They knew when she ate because of the waitress; IMO I think they have the receipt showing the time. I have to wonder if they were arguing; she, then they jumped out of the car, she was probably walking fast; he may have gotten back in the car to make like he was leaving her; I've always pictured him pulling up to her to say "get back in the car Tammy"... She refused; he pulled the guy at her. That's why she didn't have time to react.

 

[four4rock]

One thing that I can not understand is the waitress noticed the guy but not Tammy. I have always found it very strange because let's face it; I knew Cali was a good looking gal & now that we know it is Tammy & see her pics; she was a very attractive gal. Women are always sizing up the competition (so to speak)... I could not understand how the waitress didn't do that.

A guy 5'8" to 5'9" may take a large; I know I did. I have a Mustang Club jacket from back then; I always bought a large.

I've always felt they got off of the thruway because that was the area they were going to; or were passing through to another town that would be off of those roads.

They knew when she ate because of the waitress; IMO I think they have the receipt showing the time. I have to wonder if they were arguing; she, then they jumped out of the car, she was probably walking fast; he may have gotten back in the car to make like he was leaving her; I've always pictured him pulling up to her to say "get back in the car Tammy"... She refused; he pulled the guy at her. That's why she didn't have time to react.

"... sizing up the competition"... heh. And, was there nobody else in the Lima Diner? Another waitress? Other customers? Too bad.

Completely agree that Exit 45 or 46 was "their exit"... they were almost there. Wherever "there" was. I think 'diner guy' knew the area. Has anyone thought/commented about SUNY/Geneseo. Not far away... could be headed that way. 'Diner guy' looked like (possibly) an older brother - according to the report, right? College age, maybe?

Mustang Club, eh? '09 45th Anniv. Premium ragtop here. So much fun!

 

[Abigail]

She wasn't shot in the temple. The first shot was to the forehead from a straight-on angle and at point-blank (or nearly point-blank) range. The second shot was in the back (below the left armpit) after she had been dragged into the cornfield. The slug passed through her body and was found buried in the dirt below where she was found.


.

Thank you for the correction. When I looked at the post-mortem photos, it appeared to me that the bullet entered more from the side, but it's hard to tell. Now I'll have to go back and look again. But that makes the "not-flinching" aspect of things even more confusing, if she were shot directly to her forehead at point blank range.
ETA: I went back to look, and darned if I can't find anywhere on her forehead where it looks like she was shot, except for one area over the outer edge of her right eyebrow, close to the temple area.

Was that bullet ever found? Did it lodge in her skull or pass through?

 

[Abigail]

I do not know if she was comfortable around firearms, and this following statement is JMHO....I know it is possible that her killer brought the gun up and shot her before she could even flinch.....but, I wonder if maybe it was an abusive boyfriend who had put a gun in her face before. Maybe she just did not think he'd actually shoot her, because he had put that gun to her head before? The added shot in the back shows that he was certainly filled with rage.

As far as comfort with firearms, I remember Pasco and Hernando County being popular for hunters back then; however, it was more the guys that went hunting. I learned how to shoot a 22, but just target practice, not hunting. Most of the guys I knew back then would have hunting guns, but 38's not so much. We had probably 9 or 10 guns around the house, some antique guns and then a couple shotguns and 22's -- they were used to shoot rattlesnakes and gophers and other pests.

Tammy apparently had a boyfriend back home -- Kevin -- who did a search for her on the internet years later. (Also read somewhere that he and the family drove around the area looking for her after she disappeared). Assuming she was still dating Kevin at the time she disappeared, I don't think she'd have formed a new relationship so quickly in a week, where she would trust someone to put a gun to her forehead.

 

[Casketkitten]

One thing that I can not understand is the waitress noticed the guy but not Tammy. I have always found it very strange because let's face it; I knew Cali was a good looking gal & now that we know it is Tammy & see her pics; she was a very attractive gal. Women are always sizing up the competition (so to speak)... I could not understand how the waitress didn't do that.

A guy 5'8" to 5'9" may take a large; I know I did. I have a Mustang Club jacket from back then; I always bought a large.

I've always felt they got off of the thruway because that was the area they were going to; or were passing through to another town that would be off of those roads.

They knew when she ate because of the waitress; IMO I think they have the receipt showing the time. I have to wonder if they were arguing; she, then they jumped out of the car, she was probably walking fast; he may have gotten back in the car to make like he was leaving her; I've always pictured him pulling up to her to say "get back in the car Tammy"... She refused; he pulled the guy at her. That's why she didn't have time to react.

Very good question about why the waitress notices the guy but not Tammy so much. Could it be that by now, Tammy is not doing her make-up and hair that much? As the post-mort pics show, sans makeup, Tammy could look very young indeed. That profile shot alone convinced me that this might be a very young girl, as young as 10 or 11.

Could be the waitress took Tammy for a kid and then turned her eye to the dude in the dark frame glasses. Maybe he was cute...and it is after all Friday night...maybe he'll come back after taking "little sister" back home??

 

[Casketkitten]

"... sizing up the competition"... heh. And, was there nobody else in the Lima Diner? Another waitress? Other customers? Too bad.

Completely agree that Exit 45 or 46 was "their exit"... they were almost there. Wherever "there" was. I think 'diner guy' knew the area. Has anyone thought/commented about SUNY/Geneseo. Not far away... could be headed that way. 'Diner guy' looked like (possibly) an older brother - according to the report, right? College age, maybe?

Mustang Club, eh? '09 45th Anniv. Premium ragtop here. So much fun!

Anyone else remember first reading on this case on the old "Eclipse" website? ("Justice delayed is still justice!")

I recall that the webmaster there indicated that the killer was from the local area and what's more...some people knew who he was!

Ok, let's look at the possibility that the killer is local. How did Tammy and he hook up? She's gone north for heaven's sake, north in winter. Could it be that she had acquired a pen pal over the summer via an ad from the back of some teen 'zine? I recall that in those days, Tiger Beat, Teen, 16 and the like had ads in the back for pen pals. Usually it was girls seeking other girls to squeal in Bic Point blue ink over the current heart throb of the day, (Oh, Shaun! Oh Donny!) But sometimes you'd see a boy or two.

Carl, can you ask her friend if Tammy was into the pen pal thing?

 

[Abigail]

If the guy with Tammy in the diner were a trucker, he'd most likely be over 25. I went over to the Trucker's Report, and it said you had to be 21 to get a CDL license to drive interstate, and because of the cost of insuring younger men, most companies will only hire guys over 25. I'm pretty sure the same held true back in the late 70's. I remember insurance rates being higher for the younger crowd then, just as now.

 

[joeytes]

If the guy with Tammy in the diner were a trucker, he'd most likely be over 25. I went over to the Trucker's Report, and it said you had to be 21 to get a CDL license to drive interstate, and because of the cost of insuring younger men, most companies will only hire guys over 25. I'm pretty sure the same held true back in the late 70's. I remember insurance rates being higher for the younger crowd then, just as now.

CDL came around 1991. I remember because I had one.

I lived in New York until 1992. I worked for a company that required me to have a bus license. It was May 1990 that at the time I got a Class 2 license and passed the road test. A year later we all had to take another written test. I passed it and got a CDL, ( not sure what class it was). When I moved to New Jersey I wanted to keep my CDL bus license but found out I would have to take the road test all over again for a bus. So I dropped the idea and just took the written test for auto driver license.

In 1979 there was no such thing as CDL. However with the increase in fatalities during the 1980's, the CDL was born and the minimum age to drive a bus or truck is 21.

 

[sloane7777]

Anyone else remember first reading on this case on the old "Eclipse" website? ("Justice delayed is still justice!")

I recall that the webmaster there indicated that the killer was from the local area and what's more...some people knew who he was!

Ok, let's look at the possibility that the killer is local. How did Tammy and he hook up? She's gone north for heaven's sake, north in winter. Could it be that she had acquired a pen pal over the summer via an ad from the back of some teen 'zine? I recall that in those days, Tiger Beat, Teen, 16 and the like had ads in the back for pen pals. Usually it was girls seeking other girls to squeal in Bic Point blue ink over the current heart throb of the day, (Oh, Shaun! Oh Donny!) But sometimes you'd see a boy or two.

Carl, can you ask her friend if Tammy was into the pen pal thing?

I do remember that i wonder if there are any pages still viewable? looking...

 

[Roselvr]

"... sizing up the competition"... heh. And, was there nobody else in the Lima Diner? Another waitress? Other customers? Too bad.

Completely agree that Exit 45 or 46 was "their exit"... they were almost there. Wherever "there" was. I think 'diner guy' knew the area. Has anyone thought/commented about SUNY/Geneseo. Not far away... could be headed that way. 'Diner guy' looked like (possibly) an older brother - according to the report, right? College age, maybe?

Mustang Club, eh? '09 45th Anniv. Premium ragtop here. So much fun!

"Sizing up the competition"; not so much with thinking Tammy was with the guy; but just in general. Girls are always checking out other girls... I just find it hard to believe that no one noticed Tammy!

My 1st car was a 72 Grand Prix that got parked pretty quick due to the gas tank. I then got a 69 Mustang; also had an 80's "Mustang"; started dating a guy in the North Jersey Mustang club; he had a 68 Shelby. I then bought a 67 Fastback with deluxe interior to restore.

CDL came around 1991. I remember because I had one.

I lived in New York until 1992. I worked for a company that required me to have a bus license. It was May 1990 that at the time I got a Class 2 license and passed the road test. A year later we all had to take another written test. I passed it and got a CDL, ( not sure what class it was). When I moved to New Jersey I wanted to keep my CDL bus license but found out I would have to take the road test all over again for a bus. So I dropped the idea and just took the written test for auto driver license.

In 1979 there was no such thing as CDL. However with the increase in fatalities during the 1980's, the CDL was born and the minimum age to drive a bus or truck is 21.

You're right! How many people knew truckers that were afraid they wouldn't pass the test?
I used to drive a tow truck; wondered if they would make specialty licenses for everything. Once the CDL was in place; people wondered how some truckers passed the test or if they got them out of the Cracker Jack box lol

 

[annegrete]

Tammy enjoyed the CB. Maybe she met him there?

 

[four4rock]

Tammy Jo Alexander is said to have run away from home on "several" other occasions (I'm not sure how to quantify "several"... but I'll guess half a dozen or more?). Obviously, each of those other treks ended with her return. Other than the dreadful ending, what were the characteristics of this event? Was it different in any notable way? How long were her other jaunts?... a day?... a week?... a month? Did she run away alone the other (several) times? Did she usually stay "local"? Where did she go the other times? With the exception of the ending, was this 'just another trip' so-to-speak?

Also, was that restaurant at the corner/split of Rt5 & Rt20 open at that time? What was it then?

And, the more I think about the Lima Diner waitress not 'taking notice' of Tammy Jo Alexander (as previously mentioned), I think it strange too. In my experience, food service workers are pretty chatty and considerate toward other food service workers. TJA was from a restaurant family/upbringing... she was presumably eating in a casual (though recently upgraded/remodeled) diner. I believe that I saw somewhere that TJA was sorta gregarious/outgoing(?). Just speculation, but I'd think she'd have struck up some kind of chit-chat with the waitress.

 

[Casketkitten]

Tammy enjoyed the CB. Maybe she met him there?

Given how popular the instrument still was in the late '70's, that is highly likely!

Sill kinda hoping for a pen pal angle because then there might, just might be a slim paper trail. This now has me wondering; what became of her effects from home? Did Mom toss them? Did they go to a box and from there to storage??

She is my age. A double whammy exposure of "Go Ask Alice" and "Anne Frank; The Diary of a Young Girl" spurred many girls my age to keep journals and diaries. They make for great reading however cringe worthy it may be...("I shall love 'X' to the day I die!"). If Tammy kept a diary, while it may not name names, it would give a very good insight to where her head was at. Ditto scrap books.

I pray that somehow some things were preserved!

 

[cvillemegan]

I think Tammy likely struck up a conversation with a truck driver she met while working at the truck stop, and he said, "I'm going north, want to come?" She was last seen on the day after her birthday, right? Birthdays can be tough. They come with expectations, especially a sweet 16, and if her family/boyfriend didn't live up to those expectations, she would be feeling down. She had run away before. Maybe going anywhere else, even someplace north of New York in November, sounded great at the time.

Perhaps the trucker believed she was at least 18 (maybe Tammy even told him that) and when he found out she was underage, he just wanted to get rid of her.

 

[four4rock]

Earlier I commented that I believe that Tammy Jo Alexander and 'diner guy' were on the NYS Thruway WB and purposely exited at exit 45 or 46. I continue to believe that.

However, the so-called 'verified information' indicates that restaurants were checked back to Hopewell/Ontario. Which seems to suggest a path (from Hopewell to Lima) of Rt20. There's also comment that there is belief that Tammy Jo Alexander traveled the NYS Thruway. So is this hinting that she exited the WB thruway at (maybe?) Exit 42 or 43? If so, that is is still pretty intentional IMO. And it still kinda indicates that someone was familiar with the area, no?

There was no transponder-based EZ-Pass toll system at that time. So traveling the NYS Thruway would require a ticket based toll. I can't remember if (at that time) the toll booth folks keyed license numbers to be printed on the toll tickets. [I know they did at the Peace Bridge and Rainbow Bridge into/out of Canada.] Highly doubt those records would still exist. And even if they did, there'd surely be a whole lot even in the course of a few days.

I also wonder, if (IF) the first leg of Tammy Jo Alexander's trip was in a truck beginning in/around Brooksville FL on, say, Sunday November 4, 1979 (probably in the evening?)... when would that truck typically arrive in/around NYS? Wouldn't non-stop drive time be about 20 hours? [But I'm guessing that she didn't join an expedited/hotshot/team trip.] Wouldn't it seem that she'd arrive on Wednesday (11/07/79)? I'd be interested to know (from others here more familiar with 1979-era truck routes/schedules) what is thought about likely routes/times from Brooksville to NYS.

 

[Still_Seek_Answers]

1-800-CALLFBI (1-800-225-5324)
Please, we need this shared. For so many years, we searched and searched to find her name. We didn't give up then, and we can't give up now!! Somebody out there has the answer we need. Somebody saw her someplace along that journey to NY. Or perhaps they saw her after she arrived there.
It may just be a little thing, and it may not seem important, but the smallest details are often the ones that are needed to link everything together. By working together, we got half the job done. Tammy has her name back, now lets get the person who murdered this beautiful child and threw her away as if she did not matter.
We can do this!! So please, share and ask your friends to share. Let this man know that he is not going to get away with this. We are thousands strong, and somebody is going to whisper the things in our ears, that you're scared of us knowing.

 

[annegrete]

I will start my prayers again. Because I sent in quite a few prayer requests to shrines and prayer lists to get her identified.

Anyways, here is a question...

Tammy bought the key chain. Did she get a crush on her driver/trucker friend and spontaneously purchased a cutesy key chain? Did she buy it b/c she loved her boyfriend in FL? Or did she buy it caused she liked it? Probably the third one. Just wondering what developed in her last week.

 

[Roselvr]

I think Tammy likely struck up a conversation with a truck driver she met while working at the truck stop, and he said, "I'm going north, want to come?" She was last seen on the day after her birthday, right? Birthdays can be tough. They come with expectations, especially a sweet 16, and if her family/boyfriend didn't live up to those expectations, she would be feeling down. She had run away before. Maybe going anywhere else, even someplace north of New York in November, sounded great at the time.

Perhaps the trucker believed she was at least 18 (maybe Tammy even told him that) and when he found out she was underage, he just wanted to get rid of her.

Tammy was seen on her 16th birthday. I don't think it has been said if there was a party or not. I do not know anyone that had a "sweet 16". Birthday's back then were not what they are now. We always had a family dinner plus cake with my aunt & cousin. We were too old to invite friends from school.

What the world looked like Friday, 2 November 1979

I've read through these threads a while back... However, it took a while to finally get access to comment. Tammy Jo Alexander, disappeared on or after her 16th birthday November 2nd, 1979. She was seen by family on her 16th birthday, but not after. Yes, she did have reason to runaway, and yes she was reported missing 35 years ago (they just refused to do anything then because as she was a runaway, a frequent runaway). No, she wasn't a prostitute... However, she had talked about that being an option to get away. Little more is known, but her sister and cousin have shared everything they could possibly remember or obtain to be useful when she gave her DNA for comparison. We have looked for Tammy several times over the years, just not this way. Personally in every phone book, all over the internet, when MySpace came out, then Facebook. I'd even looked in the obituaries, but never considered this... Thankful that this was brought to our attention, but honestly we mostly looked for her as if she were alive (though naive I know, it's difficult to consider until it's smack dab right in your face). Now we wait to see what we can find out, and pray for answers no matter how good or bad they are. Also Tammy's sister (maternal, I am not sure if she had sibling in regards to her fathers family as I did not know him or his side of her family) was older but only by close to two years and they did grow up together, but her sister married young (again reasons to leave).

Earlier I commented that I believe that Tammy Jo Alexander and 'diner guy' were on the NYS Thruway WB and purposely exited at exit 45 or 46. I continue to believe that.

However, the so-called 'verified information' indicates that restaurants were checked back to Hopewell/Ontario. Which seems to suggest a path (from Hopewell to Lima) of Rt20. There's also comment that there is belief that Tammy Jo Alexander traveled the NYS Thruway. So is this hinting that she exited the WB thruway at (maybe?) Exit 42 or 43? If so, that is is still pretty intentional IMO. And it still kinda indicates that someone was familiar with the area, no?

There was no transponder-based EZ-Pass toll system at that time. So traveling the NYS Thruway would require a ticket based toll. I can't remember if (at that time) the toll booth folks keyed license numbers to be printed on the toll tickets. [I know they did at the Peace Bridge and Rainbow Bridge into/out of Canada.] Highly doubt those records would still exist. And even if they did, there'd surely be a whole lot even in the course of a few days.

I also wonder, if (IF) the first leg of Tammy Jo Alexander's trip was in a truck beginning in/around Brooksville FL on, say, Sunday November 4, 1979 (probably in the evening?)... when would that truck typically arrive in/around NYS? Wouldn't non-stop drive time be about 20 hours? [But I'm guessing that she didn't join an expedited/hotshot/team trip.] Wouldn't it seem that she'd arrive on Wednesday (11/07/79)? I'd be interested to know (from others here more familiar with 1979-era truck routes/schedules) what is thought about likely routes/times from Brooksville to NYS.

I personally do not think she went there in a truck. I think whoever she was with knew someone in the general area.