GUILTY Bali - Sheila von Wiese Mack, 62, found dead in suitcase, 12 Aug 2014 #4

[Kamille]

OMG, just flicked on the tv and The Bachelor tv show is in Denpasar Bali this week. LOL

 

[SouthAussie]

The denial to use the trust fund for the baby at least made it into one Bali publication. I think it is primarily read by expats there and throughout South East Asia. Still, some visibility is better than no visibility in that region.

Bali Suitcase Murder: alleged killer Heather Mack can’t use trust fund for unborn baby
http://bali.coconuts.co/2015/02/23/...-heather-mack-cant-use-trust-fund-unborn-baby

 

[tarjessi]

My true fear isn't just Heather's lack of nurturing skills - its about a lot of issues to do with other prisoners being around the baby. The environment is unhealthy for adults - let alone a baby.
There is nothing but risk.

Fair point of course. Heather is just such a monster though, if the baby was continually crying because it was distressed or was teething, etc. I don't what "it do" but her temper is out of control. I would be concerned about her beating or suffocating her own baby in anger...

 

[tarjessi]

Vanessa F Was denied $126k for legal fees, and it looks like we have an itemized bill...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-bali-attorneys-met-20150220-story.html

Far out $126K...*advertiser censored* that is a lot of money...

 

[tarjessi]

Excellent point about Favia filing as HM's representative, even though she'd already been called out for a potential conflict of interest. Especially for the amount of $ she's charging, I'd expect better.

Re: the cost of birth in Indonesia. I can't find a single good current link for tourist/wealthy birth costs (ie, private hospital), but the figures I do find are pretty consistent: $1000-2000 for a normal birth, less than $3500 for a c-section. HM will undoubtedly milk it for all its worth, but $15K? This article is from 2011:

http://www.baliadvertiser.biz/articles/paradise/2011/birthing.html



I mentioned the amount of HM's 'food and essentials' monthly stipend because I have no doubt some of it is finding its way to TS, as well as HM using it to 'buy' her cellmates' good humor.

I absolutely agree...you never know...Heather might really be trying to pay for Tommy's fees in that the lawyers are way overcharging so some of those funds can be passed on to Tommy's defence but hidden under her fees. Seriously makes you wonder. I bet the go.fund.me account Tommy's mother set up was an attempt to pay some bribe money also...I have a bad feeling they chose Bali to commit the murder knowing how corrupt the place is. Heather might be a little smarter than we all think...or at least incredibly cunning. So much pre-meditation or at least a lot of research. They were too stupid to ensure their passports were available to flee the country after the murder though. The original plan would have been to flee, then when that didn't work, immediately demand a lawyer and start to arrange bribes instead.

**Also why does WS auto block the term "go.fund.me" without the dots? Is that a swear word?

 

[tarjessi]

Stephen Henri Lubbe's letter regarding the bribe he was asked to pay by his lawyer Ary Soenardi. The letter was written to Indonesian president Joko Widodo. (he was still president-elect at the time)

He allegedly was only asked to pay $30,000.

I wonder if Cohen has seen this?

http://www.globalmediapost.com/2015/02/19/new-claims-of-corruption-in-balis-courts/

Interesting, I wonder how they determine what you can pay as a bribe as I am sure the amounts are made up as they go along. Heather's trust is worth $1.56 million and she has requested $150,000 for expenses...I wonder if some of that money is to run away and escape with? Heather must think she can access the trust via a lawyer and be in hiding somehow...maybe that is what Elkin agreed to help her with?

 

[tarjessi]

There was another case recently - around the time Schapelle was released - another Australian woman was found with a used joint apparently and other drugs in the apartment. There was a band staying there before her and they most likely had the drugs or it is possible that the locals told the police and they set them up with a large quantity - rubbing their hands saying here is our next Schapelle?

Now initially when Leeza's case broke I thought, here we go, they needed a Schapelle replacement. It was all a big furore with a decent amount of drugs being found initially and it was in the newspapers, she was going to down for many years, etc. Suddenly, everything went quiet, the next thing you hear is there was a quiet trial where she was only given 10 months and was then let out a month early. She played the game properly. I have always wondered whether the ****wits at Channel 7 and Schapelle's loud mouth horrible mother are what kept Schapelle in for so long. If they had all shut up and paid the bribes, she would have been home years ago.

It just reinforces my point that I will never, ever visit Bali and I don't have anything to do with drugs. You can be easily set up in a heartbeat.

Leeza Ormsby: http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/l...kerobokan-prison/story-fnh81fz8-1227120652651

http://www.news.com.au/national/lee...-drug-conviction/story-fncynjr2-1227027784079

http://www.news.com.au/world/leeza-...-drug-possession/story-fndir2ev-1226975480890

I am struggling to find the articles on her initial arrest...

Ormsby was arrested two days after Schapelle Corby’s dramatic release from jail in February this year. She was initially held and interrogated over a larger haul of drugs found inside a Bali villa to which she had the key.
This related to 132.2 grams of MDMA and 26.06 grams of hashish along with an old microwave, kitchen scales, plastic bags and tape. Ormsby admitted owning the joint in her handbag but denied any knowledge of the rest of the drugs.
Another Australian, Ormsby’s friend Sydney DJ Marco Mazzucco, was detained soon after Ormsby at the same villa but was later released after police said they found no evidence against him. He too denied any knowledge of the drugs found inside the villa.
So too did another friend, Sydney musician Azaria Byrne of band The Art. Byrne and his girlfriend had rented the North Kuta villa where the drugs were found and where Ormsby was arrested. Byrne too has denied any knowledge of the drugs.
He had paid for three nights at the villa but left about 8pm on the third night, leaving the key with Maccuzzo as it had already been paid for.
No-one has been charged over the MDMA and hashish found in the villa.

Quoted from: http://www.news.com.au/world/asia/l...kerobokan-prison/story-fnh81fz8-1227120652651


Another Australian on drug charges who got off - Michelle Leslie: http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/lies-and-bribes-leslies-real-story/2005/11/25/1132703380691.html

Michelle pretended to be a Muslim and admitted to being an "addict" as part of her bid for freedom. Interestingly in this article it does say that some people refused the bribe...but it cost almost $600K in attempts to get her out and a total of $100K paid in bribes alone.

"Leslie's team established a slush fund with the aid of Neil Sutton to get her out. Originally the suggested asking price to avoid a possible 15-year sentence was about $150,000, but this escalated when the Indonesians heard of the Sutton millions."

Personal Story:

Another story from Indonesia - some friends of mine were on holiday there years ago and they were playing soccer with the local kids. One of the kids turned out to be the son of a policeman. As they were playing one of the kids was hit in the head with a soccer ball and he went off crying. He comes back a few minutes later with his father who demanded a bribe or they were going to go to prison for assaulting his son. It cost them $3000AUD. Bali should be another word in the Aussie vernacular for "bribe"...

 

[Hoosgirl]

Sickening to me that the victim's estate can be robbed like this for all these outrageous lawyer fees. Glad Favia's claim was thrown out. Hope Scifo's is at least reduced, and Ary gets no more than the first $50k!

 

[LinasK]

Sickening to me that the victim's estate can be robbed like this for all these outrageous lawyer fees. Glad Favia's claim was thrown out. Hope Scifo's is at least reduced, and Ary gets no more than the first $50k!

It's bad enough Heather gets to use her victim's money for her own defense. Thank god she can't use it for the baby (refuse to call her Stella) or for Tommy's defense. Sure she would have tried. After all, this is her family now.

 

[Kamille]

It's bad enough Heather gets to use her victim's money for her own defense. Thank god she can't use it for the baby (refuse to call her Stella) or for Tommy's defense. Sure she would have tried. After all, this is her family now.

Pretty sure the 150 grand will cover both of them if someone is foolish enough to release more money to Soenardi. Tommy is being represented by his "colleague". I wouldn't be surprised to see that the 50 grand covered them both. I said from the beginning, why would officials in Indonesia care about a foreigner that was killed by other foreigners. They would just look at that as a good bribe situation. Which it appears they have.

The original 300 grand HM was asking for on behalf of Soenardi and his "legal fees" was the highest bribe amount I've seen yet in any of these foreigner situations until that most recent story of Michelle Leslie posted by tarjessi.

MOO

 

[Orange Tabby]

Pretty sure the 150 grand will cover both of them if someone is foolish enough to release more money to Soenardi. Tommy is being represented by his "colleague". I wouldn't be surprised to see that the 50 grand covered them both. I said from the beginning, why would officials in Indonesia care about a foreigner that was killed by other foreigners. They would just look at that as a good bribe situation. Which it appears they have.

The original 300 grand HM was asking for on behalf of Soenardi and his "legal fees" was the highest bribe amount I've seen yet in any of these foreigner situations until that most recent story of Michelle Leslie posted by tarjessi.

MOO

What about this case that SouthAussie wrote about in post #842 nine days ago?

I started reading Snowing in Bali this weekend, by Kathryn Bonella. Here is an interesting paragraph I read last night. The $300,000 figure caught my eye.

Pg 87:
"Michael Blanc got busted at Denpasar Airport with 3.8 kilos of hashish in his dive tanks. He could have cut a deal, but didn't. His mother Helene had been told a payment of Aus$330,000-$420,000 could buy her son a 15-year sentence. But she refused, believing her son was innocent, and threw away the only strategy that had a chance of working."


(He was sentenced to life imprisonment in 2000, served 14 years in Cipinang Prison, in Jakarta area, was fined an additional $70,000, and in 2014 was freed and paroled from the prison but will according to the agreement have to stay in Indonesia until his final release date on 21 July 2017. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Blanc)

The amounts listed in SouthAussie's example very roughly correspond to 250,000 to 325,000 in US dollars. For one person’s case (not two). And the defendant would still have been sentenced to 15 years.

To the best of my recollection, we don't know what amounts Leeza Ormsby or Julian Ponder allegedly paid to Mr. Ary, do we? I find it hard to believe that if Ponder paid bribes he didn't pay pretty spectacular figures. The fact is, I don't think we have good info on actual bribes paid at all, only info on bribes requested but not paid. I have always wondered if the first ask is merely a prelude to several subsequent requests for still more money.

I also disagree with you when you write, "why would officials in Indonesia care about a foreigner that was killed by other foreigners. They would just look at that as a good bribe situation. Which it appears they have." This may turn out to be the case, but so far there I don't see any clear evidence of what you say. For example, the evidence against Tommy and Heather that we heard about in the very first days after the murder all appears to have found its way to court (based on the reports of the first day of trial). Even more evidence appeared on that first day. That's when we learned about Heather's request for a hit man. The defense requests made on the second day of trial were denied.

We may have such evidence of bribes being accepted later, but I can't see it right now.

I agree that Mr. Ary's asking for such outrageous amounts of money clearly implies that he wants to bribe officials to obtain a better outcome than Heather deserves. But that alone isn't proof that anyone has or will accept the bribe. This case differs from virtually all of the examples I've seen so far where bribery was allegedly done or allegedly refused in that it has had worldwide media attention. I had never heard of Ormsby or Ponder (or the Bali Nine, for that matter) before I started participating on this thread.

Additionally, we know from Michael Elkin that the FBI investigation is on-going. I think this could scare off the judges, who would worry that a subsequent prosecution in the U.S. might include money laundering charges against Heather and that they could be named as unindicted co-conspirators, which could put them in hot water at home.

Lastly, do we have any examples of foreigners being murdered in Indonesia where the culprits got better results than murders involving only Indonesians as victims and perpetrators? It seems to me, and I only know the bare details of very small number of cases, that Indonesia seems to have a more generous attitude to sentencing in murder cases than the U.S. That's not the same thing as failing to care about a murdered foreigner.

 

[tarjessi]

What about this case that SouthAussie wrote about in post #842 nine days ago?



The amounts listed in SouthAussie's example very roughly correspond to 250,000 to 325,000 in US dollars. For one person’s case (not two). And the defendant would still have been sentenced to 15 years.

To the best of my recollection, we don't know what amounts Leeza Ormsby or Julian Ponder allegedly paid to Mr. Ary, do we? I find it hard to believe that if Ponder paid bribes he didn't pay pretty spectacular figures. The fact is, I don't think we have good info on actual bribes paid at all, only info on bribes requested but not paid. I have always wondered if the first ask is merely a prelude to several subsequent requests for still more money.

I also disagree with you when you write, "why would officials in Indonesia care about a foreigner that was killed by other foreigners. They would just look at that as a good bribe situation. Which it appears they have." This may turn out to be the case, but so far there I don't see any clear evidence of what you say. For example, the evidence against Tommy and Heather that we heard about in the very first days after the murder all appears to have found its way to court (based on the reports of the first day of trial). Even more evidence appeared on that first day. That's when we learned about Heather's request for a hit man. The defense requests made on the second day of trial were denied.

We may have such evidence of bribes being accepted later, but I can't see it right now.

I agree that Mr. Ary's asking for such outrageous amounts of money clearly implies that he wants to bribe officials to obtain a better outcome than Heather deserves. But that alone isn't proof that anyone has or will accept the bribe. This case differs from virtually all of the examples I've seen so far where bribery was allegedly done or allegedly refused in that it has had worldwide media attention. I had never heard of Ormsby or Ponder (or the Bali Nine, for that matter) before I started participating on this thread.

Additionally, we know from Michael Elkin that the FBI investigation is on-going. I think this could scare off the judges, who would worry that a subsequent prosecution in the U.S. might include money laundering charges against Heather and that they could be named as unindicted co-conspirators, which could put them in hot water at home.

Lastly, do we have any examples of foreigners being murdered in Indonesia where the culprits got better results than murders involving only Indonesians as victims and perpetrators? It seems to me, and I only know the bare details of very small number of cases, that Indonesia seems to have a more generous attitude to sentencing in murder cases than the U.S. That's not the same thing as failing to care about a murdered foreigner.

To be honest Orange Tabby I only know of cases where foreigners were killed by locals or foreigners who have killed locals in Bali. There is the case where a Balinese wife killed her Australian husband recently. There were a heap of local people involved in the murder: http://www.news.com.au/world/sevent...rt-ellis-in-bali/story-fndir2ev-1227188845196. They do not seem to be resting when it comes to finding out who is involved. You would think that Bali would take the murder of a foreigner by other foreigners more seriously because of how much it relies on tourism. As much as I get frustrated with the corrupt system and do not want to visit Bali because of it, not everyone is horrible and corrupt. In the story I posted about Michelle Leslie, there is information about bribes being rejected so I am sure it does not always work.

The main ringleaders of the Bali bombings were executed I believe but a fair amount of participants are now free. We are all just going to have to wait and see I think but the fact that it has gone so quiet makes me wonder. Any time the story goes quiet in the media here in the past, the next story you hear is how lenient a sentence they received...it may not be the case this time.

 

[SouthAussie]

I agree, tarjessi, this appears to be a landmark case. US citizens murdering another US citizen in Bali (and one of their mothers, no less. And for money, the same motivation as drug smugglers for smuggling drugs).

 

[Kamille]

What about this case that SouthAussie wrote about in post #842 nine days ago?



The amounts listed in SouthAussie's example very roughly correspond to 250,000 to 325,000 in US dollars. For one person’s case (not two). And the defendant would still have been sentenced to 15 years.

To the best of my recollection, we don't know what amounts Leeza Ormsby or Julian Ponder allegedly paid to Mr. Ary, do we? I find it hard to believe that if Ponder paid bribes he didn't pay pretty spectacular figures. The fact is, I don't think we have good info on actual bribes paid at all, only info on bribes requested but not paid. I have always wondered if the first ask is merely a prelude to several subsequent requests for still more money.

I also disagree with you when you write, "why would officials in Indonesia care about a foreigner that was killed by other foreigners. They would just look at that as a good bribe situation. Which it appears they have." This may turn out to be the case, but so far there I don't see any clear evidence of what you say. For example, the evidence against Tommy and Heather that we heard about in the very first days after the murder all appears to have found its way to court (based on the reports of the first day of trial). Even more evidence appeared on that first day. That's when we learned about Heather's request for a hit man. The defense requests made on the second day of trial were denied.

We may have such evidence of bribes being accepted later, but I can't see it right now.

I agree that Mr. Ary's asking for such outrageous amounts of money clearly implies that he wants to bribe officials to obtain a better outcome than Heather deserves. But that alone isn't proof that anyone has or will accept the bribe. This case differs from virtually all of the examples I've seen so far where bribery was allegedly done or allegedly refused in that it has had worldwide media attention. I had never heard of Ormsby or Ponder (or the Bali Nine, for that matter) before I started participating on this thread.

Additionally, we know from Michael Elkin that the FBI investigation is on-going. I think this could scare off the judges, who would worry that a subsequent prosecution in the U.S. might include money laundering charges against Heather and that they could be named as unindicted co-conspirators, which could put them in hot water at home.

Lastly, do we have any examples of foreigners being murdered in Indonesia where the culprits got better results than murders involving only Indonesians as victims and perpetrators? It seems to me, and I only know the bare details of very small number of cases, that Indonesia seems to have a more generous attitude to sentencing in murder cases than the U.S. That's not the same thing as failing to care about a murdered foreigner.

Oops, didn't see that other one with the high bribe numbers. Thanks for pointing it out.

The way I see it, HM has been treated differently from the moment these two were arrested. Perhaps because she's a female or perhaps because of the "entitled rich girl" vibe she gives off, I don't really know. TS was treated like a common , she was treated like an unfortunate princess caught up in a murder. She had a US lawyer on speed dial even before her arrest. She pulled every diva move she could think of. But still somehow she appeared to gain the favour of her jailers. Someone eventually put her in touch with AS when it became apparent that she had some money as the sole heir to the victim's estate. I'll bet having two US lawyers show up in Bali on her behalf cemented for someone that this girl had some cash which is when she was turned on to a different kind of defense. But as AS himself stated, by that point the evidence was making its way into the press and court system. It was going to cost a little more to "represent" her (in other words, more people to bribe).

I do think this is a totally new situation for Bali. Tourists murdering each other during vacation is not bad for tourism. Domestic violence happens everywhere and is not reflective of where the victim happened to be at the time it happens. So I don't see officials in Bali caring much about how this type of crime reflects on them as a country or tourist destination. Especially US citizens who likely make up a very small percent of tourists. Killing AC and MS is likely going to be bad for tourism but they don't care about that either.

Sheila was not an Indonesian citizen, nor did she belong to a high tourism group. She was not killed by one of their own citizens. There is nothing in this case to make an example of. However it does make for a good foreigner bribe situation. Very little press on it (actually none now) in either country. Not only does no one in Indonesia care about this crime, it appears that very few in The U.S. care either. Why does Bali want to bother with the expense of incarcerating these two for life, let alone executing them. If a number of court officials can make a few bucks off them, who is there to show outrage on behalf of the victim if they get a slap on the wrist? How big a slap will depend on whether more money is released or not.

And of course this is all just my opinion based on information we've been uncovering despite someone's decision to stop all reporting on this case.

MOO

 

[Orange Tabby]

I was just reading a 2005 article in the Sydney Morning Herald about Schapelle Corby by a journalist named Matthew Moore, and it contains this remarkable nugget:

Under Indonesian law, the onus is on an accused person who claims innocence to say who is guilty of an offence.​

Really? This strikes me as being at odds with both the presumption of innocence as well as the prosecution having the burden to prove their case.

But should this be what trips up Heather and Tommy -- cuz the gang thang just won’t fly -- I won’t lose any sleep over it.

http://newsstore.smh.com.au/apps/vi...0&sp=adv&clsPage=1&docID=SMH050429Q04II4ASSHN

 

[SouthAussie]

If you read this transcript of an interview with Dr Tim Lindsay from Melbourne's Asian Law Centre (about Schapelle's trial), that suggestion about the accused saying who is guilty is apparently misreporting, Orange Tabby. Based on very old, now-updated civil laws. It is mentioned in the interview (from 2005).

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2005/s1356362.htm

 

[Orange Tabby]

... but the fact that it has gone so quiet makes me wonder. Any time the story goes quiet in the media here in the past, the next story you hear is how lenient a sentence they received...it may not be the case this time.

[SBM & BBM]

But is that true?

For example, I’ve just been searching the Sydney Morning Herald. They had several stories about Lindsay Sandiford, starting in May of 2012. They ran a story on the indictment against her read in court on Oct. 5 of that year. Then everything went quiet. Their next story about Sandiford was on Jan. 22, 2013, when they ran a story announcing her death sentence.

Similarly, there are several hits for Lindsay Sandiford when you search the ABC (Australian Broadcasting Company) site, but not one hit about her trial except for when she received the death sentence.

I searched the ABC site for Myuran Sukumaran, limiting my search to stories between Oct. 11, 2005 (the first day of his trial) and Feb. 14, 2006 (when he was sentenced to death). I found no stories discussing the evidence at his trial. There were very few stories that appeared at all in this interval and they were concerned mostly with what lawyers were arguing about sentence and one story saying his lawyer argued he should be released because there was no evidence against him. But ABC does not have stories about the witnesses and evidence against him, nothing aboaut the very heart of his trial. ABC went quiet during this period.

There are a huge number of stories at the Sydney Morning Herald about Schapelle Corby. But there is one noteworthy thing: there are no stories which describe any day in court in which evidence was presented.

There are lots of articles which appeared during her trial, but they did not report the trial itself. They were concerned with out-of-court statements about the possible involvement of baggage handlers, musings on what a conviction might do to Bali tourism, discussions of whether Schapelle might serve part of her sentence in Australia, reports that she physically collapsed one day in the courtroom, and the like. But when it came to the witnesses and evidence at the trial, the SMH went quiet.

There was coverage after the evidentiary part of the trial was over. On Apr. 29, 2005, there were reports on her plea to the judges (including three words in Indonesian: "Saya tidak bersalah", I am not guilty.) There is also some reporting of arguments made by her lawyers. There are reports that the prosecutors said on May 7, “send her to jail” and that there was a decision on May 13 that the allegations about Sydney baggage handlers' involvement in the drug trade comes too late.

But I cannot find an article discussing a day at the trial where witnesses were heard or evidence was presented.

The Lindsay Sandiford, Myuran Sukumaran and Schapelle Corby trials all went quiet when the evidence and witnesses were presented. None of them received lenient sentences.

I’ve only spent a couple of hours with this research, so I hardly consider it definitive. But is there any Indonesian trial where there’s coverage of the heart of the case? Coverage of the prosecution’s presentation of the evidence? Newspaper stories discussing the questioning of witnesses? The only one I’ve found so far is the Neil Bantleman trial (Canadian accused of sexually assaulting children at the school where he worked in Jakarta) and the truly strange thing there is that from the few CBC reports I’ve read it seems that the CBC is getting their courtroom info not from their own journalists but from Bantleman’s wife and brother!

For reasons I simply do not understand, it seems that the evidentiary part of Indonesian trials do not get reported. It happens not just when rich defendants buy their way out of justice, it also happens when defendants like Lindsay Sandiford and Myuran Sukumaran are subjected to the death penalty.

When things go quiet in Indonesia, it does not mean a lenient sentence is on the way. It seems that things always go quiet.

 

[Orange Tabby]

If you read this transcript of an interview with Dr Tim Lindsay from Melbourne's Asian Law Centre (about Schapelle's trial), that suggestion about the accused saying who is guilty is apparently misreporting, Orange Tabby. Based on very old, now-updated civil laws. It is mentioned in the interview (from 2005).

http://www.abc.net.au/worldtoday/content/2005/s1356362.htm

Many thanks for that SouthAussie. I'm glad that such a terrible procedure is not the one which prevails in Indonesia. There is evidence enough to convict Tommy and Heather.

I must say, when I read that claim, for the reasons I note in my original post, I was gobsmacked!

 

[Orange Tabby]

Oops, didn't see that other one with the high bribe numbers. Thanks for pointing it out.

The way I see it, HM has been treated differently from the moment these two were arrested. Perhaps because she's a female or perhaps because of the "entitled rich girl" vibe she gives off, I don't really know. TS was treated like a common , she was treated like an unfortunate princess caught up in a murder. She had a US lawyer on speed dial even before her arrest. She pulled every diva move she could think of. But still somehow she appeared to gain the favour of her jailers. Someone eventually put her in touch with AS when it became apparent that she had some money as the sole heir to the victim's estate. I'll bet having two US lawyers show up in Bali on her behalf cemented for someone that this girl had some cash which is when she was turned on to a different kind of defense. But as AS himself stated, by that point the evidence was making its way into the press and court system. It was going to cost a little more to "represent" her (in other words, more people to bribe).

[SBM]

You forget the most obvious explanation: Heather is pregnant. She houses an innocent within her body.

I know that I am at odds with many people here who don’t like the treatment Heather has received. I think it is in part an unavoidable by-product of her pregnancy. For that reason, I’m not troubled by her getting some special treatment. The unborn child doesn’t deserve to suffer deprivations simply because Heather is a monster. A monster who is not yet convicted.

But I also think that when the child is born, she doesn’t deserve being put in the care of Heather Mack. That would be disgusting.

My point about the bribes is this: there is no evidence -- yet -- that Heather has secured any benefit in her trial, which is the only thing which concerns me. No evidence seems to have been made to disappear. In fact, more evidence came to light the day the trial started. That doesn’t bode well for her. The judges didn't boot out the text messages, they didn't reject the indictment, and we know from Heather herself that there are 41 witnesses against her, which seems no small number to me. And the FBI is lurking. And if I understand things correctly, when the evidence phase is over, the press will be back in packs reporting any ridiculous judgement.

Let Heather get pizza delivery for a few more weeks. I don't care about that (much). I'm not watching for signs that her money buys her fries or nail polish. I'm watching for signs that her money will obstruct justice. I don't see that yet.

But I keep watching.

 

[Orange Tabby]

To be honest Orange Tabby I only know of cases where foreigners were killed by locals or foreigners who have killed locals in Bali. There is the case where a Balinese wife killed her Australian husband recently. There were a heap of local people involved in the murder: http://www.news.com.au/world/sevent...rt-ellis-in-bali/story-fndir2ev-1227188845196. They do not seem to be resting when it comes to finding out who is involved. You would think that Bali would take the murder of a foreigner by other foreigners more seriously because of how much it relies on tourism. As much as I get frustrated with the corrupt system and do not want to visit Bali because of it, not everyone is horrible and corrupt. In the story I posted about Michelle Leslie, there is information about bribes being rejected so I am sure it does not always work.

[SBM]

Thank you, tarjessi, for the info on the Michelle Leslie case. I found it very instructive.

Like you, I was struck by the fact that it is simply not the case that if you have money you can bribe anyone in Indonesia you want. Some people will refuse. I have suggested earlier that there is very good reason for the judges to refuse in this case: they could later find themselves named unindicted co-conspirators in a U.S. case against Heather. Even if Indonesian justice may at times be hit or miss so that they might get away with it, why take that risk? Refuse Heather's too-hot-to-handle bribe and wait for all the other cases with less media scrutiny.

I also agree with you that the Robert Ellis case seems, so far, to show that the Bali authorities do care about dead bodies which don't have an Indonesian passport in their pockets. Any notion that Indonesians have no concern for foreigners is thus far completely unproven.