MS - Jessica Chambers, 19, found burned near her car, Panola County, 6 Dec 2014 - #10

[cady]

BBM

I totally agree. One of the hardest thing about this case is that there are so many potential perps to look at. JMO

Yes. Except that wasn't it Champion who said that they had basically eliminated a "core group" ? I think I know what that coded description means...but then he went onto say that they feel that the perps are local? And that this was up close and personal (my words) so it looks like a vendetta, but not a contracted "hit" ? There have been a lot of inordinate auto accident deaths in those parts, but NOTHING as grisly as this. This is downright CRUEL. UGH. JMO

 

[imkeylime]

My heart goes out to LD...Her daughter burned alive..People bombarding her with accusations, questions, harassment, etc...Her stress level must be out of this world...She needs a friend..Not sleuths...The best thing for LD, is to leave the social media sites and visit a counselor...It is my hope that her family/friends/community will step up and get her the help she needs.

Classito

Your post reminds me of something I thought the other day but forgot about. I wonder if LD could have "blocked" something immediately after JC's death but later regained the memory. That can happen during extremely stressful times (PSTD, etc.). I experienced that when my dad died. He had Parkinson's and would often say he was dying. When he said it the night he died suddenly, I blocked it. It came to me like a week later. It's like the mind trying to protect us.

I can understand LD being frustrated with LE about now. I can even understand LE being frustrated with LD. But IMO, she needs all the help she can get right now. I really hope she can get the hospital images out of her head. How horrific it must be.

 

[scoobydoobie]

<BBM for Focus>
Debirlfan, it does happen, but is very rare. Usually when a firefighter is involved in an arson event, it is for financial gain, imo. Arsonist come from all professions and from all walks of society..

The overwhelming majority of Firefighters belong to a brotherhood and would never jeopardize the safety or lives of their brother firefighters..imo

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/too-close-to-the-fire/

Ken Cabe has been asking questions about firefighter arson for much of the past decade in his job with the South Carolina State Forestry Commission. He became curious about exactly who was setting the state's arson fires.

"Most states don't record the arson events that are caused by firefighters any more than they would set aside the ones that were caused by plumbers or carpenters or whatever," says Cabe.

Cabe began compiling statistics about firefighters and arson. He found that in South Carolina in 1993, 33 volunteer firefighters were arrested for setting fires. In 1994, 47 volunteer firefighters were caught.


*http://m.stltoday.com/news/local/me...506b-b861-e2fe640d93fb.html?mobile_touch=true

"It happens more than you think", said Daniel Hebert, who investigated many firefighter arson cases during his time as a federal agent in Louisiana. "Really, it goes on more than anyone knows, we don't know about most of them......Some fire departments quietly push out firefighters they suspect of arson or deal with the problem privately.

"There's a mentality among firefighters to protect your own," Hebert said.

"This has long been a taboo subject in the fire service," Hinds - Aldrich added.

 

[Mahouston69]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/too-close-to-the-fire/

Ken Cabe has been asking questions about firefighter arson for much of the past decade in his job with the South Carolina State Forestry Commission. He became curious about exactly who was setting the state's arson fires.

"Most states don't record the arson events that are caused by firefighters any more than they would set aside the ones that were caused by plumbers or carpenters or whatever," says Cabe.

Cabe began compiling statistics about firefighters and arson. He found that in South Carolina in 1993, 33 volunteer firefighters were arrested for setting fires. In 1994, 47 volunteer firefighters were caught.


*http://m.stltoday.com/news/local/me...506b-b861-e2fe640d93fb.html?mobile_touch=true

"It happens more than you think", said Daniel Hebert, who investigated many firefighter arson cases during his time as a federal agent in Louisiana. "Really, it goes on more than anyone knows, we don't know about most of them......Some fire departments quietly push out firefighters they suspect of arson or deal with the problem privately.

"There's a mentality among firefighters to protect your own," Hebert said.

"This has long been a taboo subject in the fire service," Hinds - Aldrich added.

http://wildfiretoday.com/2015/03/09/two-former-bia-firefighters-convicted-of-arson/

 

[imkeylime]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/too-close-to-the-fire/

Ken Cabe has been asking questions about firefighter arson for much of the past decade in his job with the South Carolina State Forestry Commission. He became curious about exactly who was setting the state's arson fires.

"Most states don't record the arson events that are caused by firefighters any more than they would set aside the ones that were caused by plumbers or carpenters or whatever," says Cabe.

Cabe began compiling statistics about firefighters and arson. He found that in South Carolina in 1993, 33 volunteer firefighters were arrested for setting fires. In 1994, 47 volunteer firefighters were caught.


*http://m.stltoday.com/news/local/me...506b-b861-e2fe640d93fb.html?mobile_touch=true

"It happens more than you think", said Daniel Hebert, who investigated many firefighter arson cases during his time as a federal agent in Louisiana. "Really, it goes on more than anyone knows, we don't know about most of them......Some fire departments quietly push out firefighters they suspect of arson or deal with the problem privately.

"There's a mentality among firefighters to protect your own," Hebert said.

"This has long been a taboo subject in the fire service," Hinds - Aldrich added.

First of all, as it has to be said, I LOVE your WS name (Scooby fan here). In terms of the firefighters and arson link: I have no doubt that there is overlap in this area. Fire appears to draw some people in. But I do think there's a distinction in this case, as it was as much about murder as arson. IDK if any of the statistics separate those who set fires and those who set fires that lead to fatalities. But in the case, I feel that murder (or possibly a cover-up) was the primary intent versus pure arson. Unless someone set out to burn her car, and then she somehow caught fire. But the alleged use of an accelerant on her body seems to imply more (although that hasn't been verified, I realize). JMO, based on how I see it.

 

[Theforeigner]

Please do yourself, our work here on websleuths, and everybody else in society a favour; go and read the information in this post I posted over at the horrific and mysterious case of Janina Vasquez murder.

I believe the information in question might be of significant interest in the Jessica Chambers case, in order to find a possible motive for her gruesome murder, especially when thinking of the fact that she was planing to write a book, IMO possibly her story of being a forced police informant.

Here you can find a link to a video-report about the subject it is a VERY strong an emotional experience, do it"

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...in-a-Kansas-City-well&p=11580436#post11580436


Here is a link to the great report that started this debate/movement (I hope) against this heartless amoral and completely unacceptable activity some LE use against vulnerable young people:

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/09/03/the-throwaways

The Throwaways

Police enlist young offenders as confidential informants. But the work is high-risk, largely unregulated, and sometimes fatal.

BY SARAH STILLMAN

 

[southernyankee]

First of all, as it has to be said, I LOVE your WS name (Scooby fan here). In terms of the firefighters and arson link: I have no doubt that there is overlap in this area. Fire appears to draw some people in. But I do think there's a distinction in this case, as it was as much about murder as arson. IDK if any of the statistics separate those who set fires and those who set fires that lead to fatalities. But in the case, I feel that murder (or possibly a cover-up) was the primary intent versus pure arson. Unless someone set out to burn her car, and then she somehow caught fire. But the alleged use of an accelerant on her body seems to imply more (although that hasn't been verified, I realize). JMO, based on how I see it.

I concur. To paraphrase J.D. Salinger on this (figuratively): sometimes where there's smoke, there is certainly fire...and sometimes where there's smoke, it turns out to be just strawberry Jello.

While the linked stories about other cases of firefighter arson do investigate that phenomenon, I personally believe that sort of speculation is ill-informed in Jessica's case. I have not heard, seen, or read anything to suggest that the volunteer firefighting team had anything to do with starting either of the fire(s) in Courtland on December 6th. If anything, in a case with multiple reported inconsistencies, I have only seen consistent reporting that the firefighters acted professionally + did their best in response to Jessica's terrible situation that evening.

 

[scoobydoobie]

Ya, I agree the fire was probably set to eliminate evidence from a violent/sexual crime. And not really an Arson. My post was a reply to Firefox's claim that firefighter arsons are "very rare", and that when it does occur it is for financial gain. I don't really agree with either statement so I posted what I did.

 

[MSCJgrad]

Thank you for this link. This is a great piece of investigative journalism. I had mentioned a couple of times in previous threads the dark comedy in an episode of 'The Boondocks' titled 'Thank You for Not Snitching'. In one scene, an informant was leaving court, standing in front of the courthouse talking to LE, and asked, 'OK, so where do we go from here? I testified for you, now I go into witness protection, right?". The LE officers laugh and walk off, and then a car drives up and shoots the informant, still standing on the courthouse steps. It was funny, as it was intended to be, but also a very realistic interpretation of how informants are used and abused in the legal system. The link that you provided was dead on, when they called these young informants as the newest victims of the War on Drugs. This is a sad reality. Thank you for bringing up the thread about Ms. Vasquez. What a sad case. In regards to JC's case, I have not had time to keep up lately, but as far as I know, anything is possible. She could have been involved in a drug deal gone bad. She could have been in a lovers quarrel. She could have been an informant who had been found out. It could have been Bigfoot for all I know. I check on and read through this thread every day if I get a chance, hoping for something new. Ugh.

Please do yourself, our work here on websleuths, and everybody else in society a favour; go and read the information in this post I posted over at the horrific and mysterious case of Janina Vasquez murder.

I believe the information in question might be of significant interest in the Jessica Chambers case, in order to find a possible motive for her gruesome murder, especially when thinking of the fact that she was planing to write a book, IMO possibly her story of being a forced police informant.

Here you can find a link to a video-report about the subject it is a VERY strong an emotional experience, do it"

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...in-a-Kansas-City-well&p=11580436#post11580436


Here is a link to the great report that started this debate/movement (I hope) against this heartless amoral and completely unacceptable activity some LE use against vulnerable young people:

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/09/03/the-throwaways

The Throwaways

Police enlist young offenders as confidential informants. But the work is high-risk, largely unregulated, and sometimes fatal.

BY SARAH STILLMAN

 

[flatfootjoe]

Thank you for this link. This is a great piece of investigative journalism. I had mentioned a couple of times in previous threads the dark comedy in an episode of 'The Boondocks' titled 'Thank You for Not Snitching'. In one scene, an informant was leaving court, standing in front of the courthouse talking to LE, and asked, 'OK, so where do we go from here? I testified for you, now I go into witness protection, right?". The LE officers laugh and walk off, and then a car drives up and shoots the informant, still standing on the courthouse steps. It was funny, as it was intended to be, but also a very realistic interpretation of how informants are used and abused in the legal system. The link that you provided was dead on, when they called these young informants as the newest victims of the War on Drugs. This is a sad reality. Thank you for bringing up the thread about Ms. Vasquez. What a sad case. In regards to JC's case, I have not had time to keep up lately, but as far as I know, anything is possible. She could have been involved in a drug deal gone bad. She could have been in a lovers quarrel. She could have been an informant who had been found out. It could have been Bigfoot for all I know. I check on and read through this thread every day if I get a chance, hoping for something new. Ugh.

BBM. I think you would have to approach this in one of two ways. If she were an informant, maybe that alone is the fact that prompted LE to immediately determine that this was a homicide. On the other hand, if she were an informant, somewhere there is record of the same and LE is playing a dangerous game, a very expensive one at that. I can only imagine the financial award a case like that would involve. Maybe if she were an informant that also explains the presence of the FBI in the area in lieu of a suspected bridge demolition plot. Definitely food for thought.

It would explain her "paranoia" as well. I don't know what we should call that though, what should you call someone who's justifiably paranoid? If anyone ever had reason to feel paranoid Jessica surely did. Isn't paranoia dependent on delusion?

I saw the Boondocks episode you're referring to, and I thoroughly read the article offered by Theforeigner. I'd really like to believe that LE as a whole much more often than not provides adequate protection for their informants. Those would be the cases that we never hear about though. The frustration I've felt with the competency I believe local LE has demonstrated in this case (whether justified or unfounded) really has me concerned with the level of protection they could afford any informant or witness. I really hope the feds stick around until there is some sort of resolution in this case.

 

[Mahouston69]

I do think it's possible her "cooperation" with LE after her arrest for assault played a part in her demise.

 

[wfgodot]

Every time I think this is a murder case, the finger points closer to home.

 

[claudicici]

yes,thank you foreigner for linking "The Throwaways" article.It's very insightful.IMO soo many things make so much more sense in this case if Jessica in fact was an informant.(The paranoia,the feeling that the mother knows more than she is saying,her father's criminal record yet working for the sheriff's department,the scrubbing of facebook accounts by so many players,the FBI involvement,yet minimal information is given to the public etc.....)

 

[Theforeigner]

yes,thank you foreigner for linking "The Throwaways" article.It's very insightful.IMO soo many things make so much more sense in this case if Jessica in fact was an informant.(The paranoia,the feeling that the mother knows more than she is saying,her father's criminal record yet working for the sheriff's department,the scrubbing of facebook accounts by so many players,the FBI involvement,yet minimal information is given to the public etc.....)

Exactly!

 

[MSCJgrad]

Thanks for the input, ffj. As far as LE playing a dangerous game if in fact JC was an informant, yes, I would agree. However, I am not inclined to think that is what happened here, but I could definitely be wrong. The 'reward' that you refer to, are you talking about the reward for information about JC's murder, or a reward that JC would have received for being an informant? There are, or course, paid informants who are on the payroll, so to speak, however most of them are brought into becoming a CI in the first place after a drug related arrest... I haven't read anything about that thus far, but I have also not been up to speed for about a month or so now, so I suppose that is completely possible.
Also, in regards to the 'paranoia' described by her mother and as you mentioned, I agree with you in that I don't think you can call it paranoia in JC's case. She was aware of her surroundings, that something wasn't right, and that someone was out to get her. She ended up being sadly correct. If, (hypo), she was an informant (hypo) I'm not sure that would explain the FIB being there in the first place... unless it was a huge case that she was about to bust wide open. I have never bought the reasons given for the FBI being there already. There is entirely too much of a criminal presence there for me to believe that they were there for a bridge demo plot. JMO, and once again, I could very well be wrong. Sure, the FBI could have been there for the bridge plot, but I firmly believe there were other federal investigators in PC prior to JC's murder, and their position there had nothing to do with a bridge.
I also tend to agree that we don't much hear about the successful use of informants, not nearly as much as we do (or are about to start) hear about those gone awry. It is no secret that the CI process is ungoverned and dangerous, and often abused. This is a fact. It is not that all LE are crooked or careless with civilians. There are crooked plumbers, crooked farmers, crooked lawyers, crooked bankers, crooked preachers, crooked preachers, the list goes on. Name a profession, and there is a list of those who have shamed it, I can bet on that. This should not make a bad name for all professions, just make us all aware that not everyone is good, and we cannot trust everybody, just because they are a preacher, a doctor, or a LE officer. We must use our own judgement and look out for ourselves. This is the sad truth. The informants that are being spoken of in the link provided by Theforeigner are mostly young, impressionable, and have little world or criminal experience. This sets them up for failure. There does need to be rules and guidelines and laws in place when working with CI's. People also need to educate themselves. Is it worth risking your life to avoid a weed charge?

BBM. I think you would have to approach this in one of two ways. If she were an informant, maybe that alone is the fact that prompted LE to immediately determine that this was a homicide. On the other hand, if she were an informant, somewhere there is record of the same and LE is playing a dangerous game, a very expensive one at that. I can only imagine the financial award a case like that would involve. Maybe if she were an informant that also explains the presence of the FBI in the area in lieu of a suspected bridge demolition plot. Definitely food for thought.

It would explain her "paranoia" as well. I don't know what we should call that though, what should you call someone who's justifiably paranoid? If anyone ever had reason to feel paranoid Jessica surely did. Isn't paranoia dependent on delusion?

I saw the Boondocks episode you're referring to, and I thoroughly read the article offered by Theforeigner. I'd really like to believe that LE as a whole much more often than not provides adequate protection for their informants. Those would be the cases that we never hear about though. The frustration I've felt with the competency I believe local LE has demonstrated in this case (whether justified or unfounded) really has me concerned with the level of protection they could afford any informant or witness. I really hope the feds stick around until there is some sort of resolution in this case.

 

[SteveP]

Just a post to say I am still here every day, reading every post. I just don't have anything to add for now. I hate to see this thread so inactive, but there just seems to be nothing left to discuss until some of the rumblings and rumors posted elsewhere may pan out and eventually find their way to MSM, or until LE gives us something in the way of suspects or arrests. I do hope that there truly is movement and progress being made in this case, and pray that justice soon will come for Jessica. JMO

 

[MSCJgrad]

Glad that you are still here. ZOOL, Anonone, where are you? Is there truly nothing else to discuss here? Even if it is seemingly meaningless, it could somehow help to tie together some of what we have gathered thus far. I have seen on the various "Jessica" FB pages (JFJ, etc), some interesting activity in recent days. I even followed a link a day or 2 ago to YouTube and listened to an interesting recording... it could mean nothing, but it could mean something? As there are no people shown on the video, just voices, it could be hard to determine authenticity (also could have been staged, preplanned, or coerced), however I listened to that recording over and over, and compared the two people to DT & GM in their interview that they gave after being questioned very early on in this case, and I have no doubt that the YouTube recording is in fact DT & GM. That being said, it is speculative as to if the recording has any meaning whatsoever, why it was released, who released it, who was recording whom (if it was in fact a secretive recording), and what the intent was of recording the other person in the first place. Has anyone else heard this? Does anyone else have anything else new? What about the info JC's mom wrote pertaining to the drug deal gone bad? Nothing??

Just a post to say I am still here every day, reading every post. I just don't have anything to add for now. I hate to see this thread so inactive, but there just seems to be nothing left to discuss until some of the rumblings and rumors posted elsewhere may pan out and eventually find their way to MSM, or until LE gives us something in the way of suspects or arrests. I do hope that there truly is movement and progress being made in this case, and pray that justice soon will come for Jessica. JMO

 

[SteveP]

Glad that you are still here. ZOOL, Anonone, where are you? Is there truly nothing else to discuss here? Even if it is seemingly meaningless, it could somehow help to tie together some of what we have gathered thus far. I have seen on the various "Jessica" FB pages (JFJ, etc), some interesting activity in recent days. I even followed a link a day or 2 ago to YouTube and listened to an interesting recording... it could mean nothing, but it could mean something? As there are no people shown on the video, just voices, it could be hard to determine authenticity (also could have been staged, preplanned, or coerced), however I listened to that recording over and over, and compared the two people to DT & GM in their interview that they gave after being questioned very early on in this case, and I have no doubt that the YouTube recording is in fact DT & GM. That being said, it is speculative as to if the recording has any meaning whatsoever, why it was released, who released it, who was recording whom (if it was in fact a secretive recording), and what the intent was of recording the other person in the first place. Has anyone else heard this? Does anyone else have anything else new? What about the info JC's mom wrote pertaining to the drug deal gone bad? Nothing??

Has anyone else heard this?
Yes, but like you, not sure exactly what to make of it, if anything.

To your follow-up question...
Think that came from an unapproved site, so we can't discuss it at this time. Wish we could. JMO

 

[MSCJgrad]

Has anyone else heard this?
Yes, but like you, not sure exactly what to make of it, if anything.

To your follow-up question...
Think that came from an unapproved site, so we can't discuss it at this time. Wish we could. JMO

Thanks for the heads up, SteveP. Perhaps that explains the radio silence on this forum lately. Apologies if I brought up anything out of bounds. It was not intended.

 

[flatfootjoe]

Thanks for the input, ffj. As far as LE playing a dangerous game if in fact JC was an informant, yes, I would agree. However, I am not inclined to think that is what happened here, but I could definitely be wrong. The 'reward' that you refer to, are you talking about the reward for information about JC's murder, or a reward that JC would have received for being an informant? There are, or course, paid informants who are on the payroll, so to speak, however most of them are brought into becoming a CI in the first place after a drug related arrest... I haven't read anything about that thus far, but I have also not been up to speed for about a month or so now, so I suppose that is completely possible.
Also, in regards to the 'paranoia' described by her mother and as you mentioned, I agree with you in that I don't think you can call it paranoia in JC's case. She was aware of her surroundings, that something wasn't right, and that someone was out to get her. She ended up being sadly correct. If, (hypo), she was an informant (hypo) I'm not sure that would explain the FIB being there in the first place... unless it was a huge case that she was about to bust wide open. I have never bought the reasons given for the FBI being there already. There is entirely too much of a criminal presence there for me to believe that they were there for a bridge demo plot. JMO, and once again, I could very well be wrong. Sure, the FBI could have been there for the bridge plot, but I firmly believe there were other federal investigators in PC prior to JC's murder, and their position there had nothing to do with a bridge.
I also tend to agree that we don't much hear about the successful use of informants, not nearly as much as we do (or are about to start) hear about those gone awry. It is no secret that the CI process is ungoverned and dangerous, and often abused. This is a fact. It is not that all LE are crooked or careless with civilians. There are crooked plumbers, crooked farmers, crooked lawyers, crooked bankers, crooked preachers, crooked preachers, the list goes on. Name a profession, and there is a list of those who have shamed it, I can bet on that. This should not make a bad name for all professions, just make us all aware that not everyone is good, and we cannot trust everybody, just because they are a preacher, a doctor, or a LE officer. We must use our own judgement and look out for ourselves. This is the sad truth. The informants that are being spoken of in the link provided by Theforeigner are mostly young, impressionable, and have little world or criminal experience. This sets them up for failure. There does need to be rules and guidelines and laws in place when working with CI's. People also need to educate themselves. Is it worth risking your life to avoid a weed charge?

BBM points follow.

The award I mentioned was more in line with what a jury would award her family in damages if indeed she were acting as an informant and she died as a result of her not being adequately protected. Something about this case has pissed me off to no end, the fact that Jessica because she wasn't the prim and proper model of angelicism, that it's somehow okay to forget about her, that she doesn't deserve national attention. I don't know what in particular brought that to mind, I guess I'm going to stop that rant before I let it get out of hand.

I'm not convinced she was acting as an informant either, just that the possibility exists. Jessica and the way she's been portrayed strike me as a person who would take a fall before squealing. Is it possible that she worked with local LE, yes, I hope for her sake she was smarter than that. The drug and gang activity alone probably explain the FBI presence. I've seen articles dating back to 2010 in the Panola area, detailing the "gang problem" which didn't exist as far as anyone talking to MSM in 2014. The fact that both the ATF and the FBI have field offices in Jackson MS probably contributed to a rapid and expanded presence in the area as well.

Most of the young people I know/have known are incredibly poor judges of character, or their criteria is so far removed from my own, I just see them that way. When you're in trouble like that, every LE officer I've ever encountered plays it the same way. You are in so much trouble, you have to cooperate, you have to tell us everything. I was in trouble, serious trouble, frequently as a juvenile and as a young adult. I had a son and a daughter that had problems too. Every time it was the same story. Thankfully for me, I kept my mouth shut, stayed out of jail, and out of a gutter somewhere. I was taught as a kid and my children were as well, trust the police. That story changes once you're in trouble, it seems that you have to look at it a different way. I can't enumerate the number of lies they told my daughter to have her finally incriminate herself, but they were numerous and unfortunately in her case believable enough to do so. No not all LE is crooked, but the game changes significantly once you're in, or have worn the handcuffs. Reading that story was heartbreaking, and you have to wonder, what is the motivation of LE who take obvious small time or first time offenders and put them in a situation that's life threatening, or in some cases, fatal.