GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #5

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Hi everyone :)
This is (obviously) my first post. I've been following this case on here since nearly the beginning (and have followed a few other Virginia cases on here, as well). I live in Southwest Virginia, close to Roanoke and not terribly far from Dublin (though I don't know that area at all). One thing I'd like to mention about Orlando Salinas is that, having watched him on WDBJ7 for years now, that Facebook post is written the way he speaks, if that makes sense. I'm not really a fan of his style, and certainly don't know what to make of his post (I haven't checked this morning, but I haven't seen that information getting picked up by any news source), but it really is just... his style and how he expresses himself, I suppose. I do agree that he would benefit from an editor!
 
Hi everyone :)
This is (obviously) my first post. I've been following this case on here since nearly the beginning (and have followed a few other Virginia cases on here, as well). I live in Southwest Virginia, close to Roanoke and not terribly far from Dublin (though I don't know that area at all). One thing I'd like to mention about Orlando Salinas is that, having watched him on WDBJ7 for years now, that Facebook post is written the way he speaks, if that makes sense. I'm not really a fan of his style, and certainly don't know what to make of his post (I haven't checked this morning, but I haven't seen that information getting picked up by any news source), but it really is just... his style and how he expresses himself, I suppose. I do agree that he would benefit from an editor!

Welcome to the group! Thank you so much for your insight
 
Hi everyone :)
This is (obviously) my first post. I've been following this case on here since nearly the beginning (and have followed a few other Virginia cases on here, as well). I live in Southwest Virginia, close to Roanoke and not terribly far from Dublin (though I don't know that area at all). One thing I'd like to mention about Orlando Salinas is that, having watched him on WDBJ7 for years now, that Facebook post is written the way he speaks, if that makes sense. I'm not really a fan of his style, and certainly don't know what to make of his post (I haven't checked this morning, but I haven't seen that information getting picked up by any news source), but it really is just... his style and how he expresses himself, I suppose. I do agree that he would benefit from an editor!

Welcome, I'm so glad you came out of lurkdom! I'm a southwest VA girl too and am always on the hunt for locals.
If that is Orlando's normal reporting style I'm not sure what to think. I suppose that it means I can have more confidence in that post but much less confidence in his bosses
Great first post though and I hope you will continue posting with us!


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I believe that the layout of the property has 3 houses on it, or 2 houses and a mobile home, kind of in a loose triangular fashion. I wonder if they collectively referred to the space where the kids played in between all the houses, the "backyard"?


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Welcome, I'm so glad you came out of lurkdom! I'm a southwest VA girl too and am always on the hunt for locals.
If that is Orlando's normal reporting style I'm not sure what to think. I suppose that it means I can have more confidence in that post but much less confidence in his bosses
Great first post though and I hope you will continue posting with us!


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Thanks for the welcome, guys! I'm not sure I have much to contribute, but I will definitely stick around.
I'm amazed at the people who like Orlando's reporting style (and there are plenty of them). It's just a little too casual for me.
 
I wonder what those 2 metal poles that just happened to be "lying around" by the septic tank were used for. I don't generally have long metal poles lying handily around my yard.

:blush: I do... for when I grew a garden. 6" long metal poles for a contraption I made for my garden.

Reporter is just a tad too dramatic in his "reporting"....

I would think then that you are not a Nancy Grace fan. I feel so free not having watched her for years now and glad there are other outlets to follow cases. :gaah:
 
And on further about Tupperware lids on septic tanks, my guess is that it was one of the plastic kind that we were told previously weigh about 2 lbs, and should have 8 or so screws securing it.

If the screws were not there, or not secured, I can just imagine a man who is full of adrenalin saying it came off like Tupperware. This could well be true, IMO.

Who knows about the rest of the story, but even in the wildest tales, there is often a seed of truth. What that is, I dunno. The reporter wasn't one to inspire confidence!

Some of the articles on our local TV news sites are really poorly written and full of punctuation and spelling errors. TV reporters write stories to read them on air, not for people to read in print. It drives me nuts now, in the age of online news sites and reporters having FB pages, that they don't seem to have editors who take 5-10 minutes to clean up a story so it's a little more readable, but I've come to accept it doesn't necessarily mean the reporter isn't trustworthy.

One of the things that drove me nuts in Mr. Salinas' story is that he repeatedly wrote "I was told." It's awkward and distracting. But he (or his editor) may have felt the need to emphasize that this is all secondhand information, and he wasn't there. Just like we feel the need to repeatedly say "I think" or "in my opinion."

I can't remember where we found the info about that kind of septic tank lid being secured with multiple bolts or screws. I thought one of the MSM articles about Noah had said that, but I searched and couldn't find any reference to bolts/screws holding a typical plastic septic tank lid in place.

The whole story, like many aspects of this case, gives us more questions than answers. It says the lid popped off easily; but was it covered in sod first that the adults had to remove? Did the reporter ask this question? If Noah's parents or mom intentionally put him in the tank, is it possible they removed screws and sod in that process and didn't put them back? If their intent was to hide Noah's body so that nobody could ever find it, surely they would have been very careful to make the septic tank look undisturbed? Or maybe they really are that dumb?

And if LE knew the lid could come off easily, and the searchers reported they felt something, why in the world didn't LE have the tank drained that day?

Why did the searchers feel the need to tell LE that their fingerprints would be all over the pole and lid? LE knew they were searching, so that was a given.

Honestly, I don't think anything will surprise me about this case anymore. And I wonder if we'll ever really know what happened.
 
Some of the articles on our local TV news sites are really poorly written and full of punctuation and spelling errors. TV reporters write stories to read them on air, not for people to read in print. It drives me nuts now, in the age of online news sites and reporters having FB pages, that they don't seem to have editors who take 5-10 minutes to clean up a story so it's a little more readable, but I've come to accept it doesn't necessarily mean the reporter isn't trustworthy.

One of the things that drove me nuts in Mr. Salinas' story is that he repeatedly wrote "I was told." It's awkward and distracting. But he (or his editor) may have felt the need to emphasize that this is all secondhand information, and he wasn't there. Just like we feel the need to repeatedly say "I think" or "in my opinion."

I can't remember where we found the info about that kind of septic tank lid being secured with multiple bolts or screws. I thought one of the MSM articles about Noah had said that, but I searched and couldn't find any reference to bolts/screws holding a typical plastic septic tank lid in place.

The whole story, like many aspects of this case, gives us more questions than answers. It says the lid popped off easily; but was it covered in sod first that the adults had to remove? Did the reporter ask this question? If Noah's parents or mom intentionally put him in the tank, is it possible they removed screws and sod in that process and didn't put them back? If their intent was to hide Noah's body so that nobody could ever find it, surely they would have been very careful to make the septic tank look undisturbed? Or maybe they really are that dumb?

And if LE knew the lid could come off easily, and the searchers reported they felt something, why in the world didn't LE have the tank drained that day?

Why did the searchers feel the need to tell LE that their fingerprints would be all over the pole and lid? LE knew they were searching, so that was a given.

Honestly, I don't think anything will surprise me about this case anymore. And I wonder if we'll ever really know what happened.

In this interview, the owner of a septic company talks about the plastic lids saying they are usually secured with screws.



Lynchburg, VA - At this time, there are still a lot unanswered questions surrounding Noah's death. Investigators have been tight-lipped about the family's septic tank where the 5-year-old's body was found.

Experts say it all comes down to what type of lid, if any, was on the tank that day. So far, all investigators will say is that the septic tank itself is underground.

But we don't know if the Thomas's tank, like many Virginia homeowners', has a plastic riser on it, which would make it accessible above ground.

A lightweight plastic lid is usually placed over the rise to cover the tank. The owner of 'Five Star Septic' tells ABC 13 the plastic lid is usually secured with more than 8 screws, which would make it impossible for anyone to uncover. But if the lid is not screwed on, he says even a child could pull the cover off.

As for more traditional septic tanks, like the ones most homes in our area have, the lid itself is actually buried about a foot deep. Dale Wilson, owner of Wilson's Septic Tank Service, says those lids are usually made out of cement and are even difficult for someone of his size to pull off.

"Newer tanks these days are quite a bit thicker than that top, but even that top is almost 100 pounds. There is no way any small person can lift that by himself. No way” said Wilson.

Wilson says he has come across septic tanks where the underground lid has been removed -- but he says that is rare. There are many instances every year of children falling into septic tanks.

In most of those cases, the lid was either removed or broken.

Video at link: http://www.wset.com/story/28635381/...thomas-accidentally-fell-into-the-septic-tank
 
Video of sanitation worker interview, I believe he talks about bolts attached to lid.


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I found it interesting in the orly FB post, sanitation worker said there was 3 feet of sludge in bottom and he said the tanks usually get 1 foot per 5 yrs. sounds like this tank hasn't been cleaned 15 yrs...odd imo

So if tank is 5 1/2 feet deep, 3 feet of sludge, that leaves 2 1/2 feet that lil Noah was in. The tank was 8'x?x5 1/2' deep.

I guess his lil body moved to other end of tank, the 2 men were searching with the rods close in time to his disappearance though.

I don't know guess we have to wait....


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I found it interesting in the orly FB post, sanitation worker said there was 3 feet of sludge in bottom and he said the tanks usually get 1 foot per 5 yrs. sounds like this tank hasn't been cleaned 15 yrs...odd imo

So if tank is 5 1/2 feet deep, 3 feet of sludge, that leaves 2 1/2 feet that lil Noah was in. The tank was 8'x?x5 1/2' deep.

I guess his lil body moved to other end of tank, the 2 men were searching with the rods close in time to his disappearance though.

I don't know guess we have to wait....


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The tank was installed in 2002, so it has not even been operational for 15 years. Tank size is usually rated on the number of bedrooms and they count 2 occupants to a bedroom. Maybe Courtney could ask Angel how many bedrooms are in the white house? My point is, that size tank is typically rated for 2-3 bedrooms 4-6 occupants, 1-2 bathrooms. So if more occupants were using it, then it would fill much faster.
 
Well, this is interesting new info and I don't even know what to think. I find myself going back to what led LE to search the tank the day Noah was found. Reportedly, they were racing to get there. Again, why did they say it was a tip and then say there was no tip?
 
No way LE would have left Noah in there one hour longer than necessary...if not just for humane reasons, but for evidence purposes. The sooner a body is found, the better chance to find evidence.

I don't know if I am convinced by this latest report...but I have always wondered if LE could be covering up the fact that they had opened the tank earlier in the search and just had not drained it until much later in the week. They seem to have avoided answering that question, straight out, Imo.

I will go find the link but I am all but certain they actually said they already looked in the tank once before, saw nothing of note, replaced the lid and moved on.

I agree that is seems unreasonable they would have left him in there. I should have phrased my post differently. It seemed to me that was something the reporter was questioning. If the fact is that sludge build up could be mistaken for something has hard and large as a body, then the LEO who checked the tank in that manner wasn't really doing an effective job of it.
 
I haven't posted on Noah's thread, but I have followed and read along since day one. I don't want to jump in just to disagree, but I want to say how grateful I am that the reporter is PROVIDING NEW INFORMATION. This is not a published article. This is a Facebook post. The post gave lots of details. Heck, it seemed like it contained more actual information than many MSM articles.
Seriously, this new info was amazing. I don't understand how it's being criticized. I mean, I read hundreds of posts on septic tank lids...with the same information being rehashed. Now there is this new info, and posters are criticism his writing? It's written in a conversational style. It's not MLA or peer reviewed or written as a technical manual.
Is every detail crystal clear? No, of course not. It's FB.
I just have to step in and take up for this reporter. If he's reading here, or if other reporters are reading here, please keep new details coming.
Sorry. Not trying to jump on any posters here. I believe everyone is here for Noah. Thanks to the three posters I quoted, for keeping the threads going and bringing up new ideas and theories.

I can only speak for me but when it is obvious that so little work went into the 'finished product' I have to question how much care was taken in fact checking, etc.

I think I actually fall in between your two views. Sutton, if you look further back, I also posted this:

I would take what Orlando Salinas says over people posting comments. Yes, I guess technically they could be suspects but it seems far fetched.

And as an aside, Orlando Salinas has totally now grown in my estimation. I did not love his reporting style in some of the clips and presser coverages we saw previously but I think this guy has some serious investigative reporting chops.

In his Facebook post, he states that some of these conversations happened Mar 27. This is not a sudden break in the case that he just couldn't wait to post - he had some time to draft it and edit before posting. I agree that Facebook does not necessarily demand the same level of editorial scrutiny or format compliance that a published article does. However, he is a member of the Press. He is posting as a reporter, not in a personal capacity. I think all members of the Press have a responsibility to strive for excellence in their communications. Just look at how many times in that post he erroneously used the word "tank" instead of "lid." That detail matters. Words matter.

I agree that he deserves some credit for going after a story that truly deserves to be investigated but would prefer if we would be a little more careful in what he publishes. I don't think is too much to expect from a professional.



Purely speculating here, but I interpreted that remark to mean that it was as easy to open as a piece of Tupperware, not that it literally opened like Tupperware does. Which, if the opening was exposed and it had been recently accessed, it may have opened quite easily.

I agree. I don't think they meant Tupperware as in...the lid is airtight and keeping the tank contents fresh. I think it was just a simple, lay man's terms example of how easy it was to get the lid off.
 
Do they not have a COD yet? I wish we knew the details of the charges against the parents. This case seems so confusing and murky. Hopefully justice will be served for little Noah soon.
Poor child deserved so much more.
 
<snip from https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1623662921199434&id=1616434831922243&fref=nf

I'm told that police were already inside the Thomas' home and several things were taking place simultaneously; LEO's were trying to establish a timeline, they were creating search teams and interviewing Noah's parents, who I'm told appeared "distracted."

* still curious when and how the Daddy got home. I had read that his work was either 15 min or 15 miles away.

Just assuming here but I would say LE brought him home or a co-worker was allowed to leave and drive him home under the circumstances. No big mystery, IMO.
 
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