AR - Josh Duggar Admits Molesting Girls As A Teenager - #1

[gitana1]

Hints about the victims being blamed:

As we studied as a family, we found we could come up with our idea of what we thought modesty was, but we really wanted to see what the scriptures said about it. Our interpretation was that from the neck down to the knee should be covered. By keeping those private areas covered, there's not any "defrauding" going on. My kids are taught the definition of defrauding as stirring up desires that cannot be righteously fulfilled. We don't believe in defrauding others by the way we dress. And different people may be defrauded by different things. We can't control their thoughts, but we're responsible before God for our part. And so years ago, I just felt between me and my Lord that I really needed to dress modestly. http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/19-kids...g/michelle-duggar-why-she-chose-modest-dress/

Like Arkansas' very own morality police, they're also on the look out for ladies (perhaps words like "jezebel" and "harlot" were edited out in early drafts) who aren't subscribing to a similar dress code. Sure, they don't arrest people, but the family have a special code word for these provocative women, which is "Nike." Really, there's a code word: "That's a signal to the boys, and even to Dad, that they should nonchalantly drop their eyes and look down at their shoes as we walk past her... It's meant to help keep the guys' eyes from seeing things they shouldn't be seeing. By using the single-word signal, the warning can be given quietly and discreetly."

It's disconcertingly judgemental, and the narrative that men, even good Quiverfull men, are perennial victims of their crazed sex drives is far too common in contemporary religious-based lifestyle literature. (The Duggars mention it again when remembering Michelle's past as a cheerleader before finding God and Jim Bob: "She had no idea that dancing around in a short skirt in front of a bunch of boys was causing many of them to think sensual thoughts about her," the book reads.) http://www.cosmopolitan.com/entertainment/news/a21626/duggar-girls-book-quotes/

And I got it:
This is what the Duggar's long time religious leader, Bil Gothard, head of ATI (also caught in a sex scandal involving young girls, BTW, along with the molester Doug Phillips of Vision Forum who was also a dear, close friend of the Duggars), says about counseling those who have been sexually abused:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/micah-j-murray/growing-up-in-bill-gothar_b_5228166.html

(More later).

 

[Donjeta]

I am watching Josh and Anna's wedding on Youtube and it bothers me that they're making a huge deal out of how pure he is, he is given a book to explain to him how sex works although he has a general idea, it's like lego bricks and it will be their first kiss on the wedding day and is he nervous about it and it will be a lot of firsts...

All the while he was an experienced vagina toucher.

 

[Cubby]

It isn't as easy as saying we can learn from our mistakes made so many years ago when the transgression has the psychology of pedophilia attached. If we have learned one thing from being on WS, it is being aware pedos have an ongoing lifetime problem with their sexual preference/predilection for children. JD should have been removed from the victims' home permanently and certainly not allowed to be part of their television life, imo. This would have been the very least of appropriate action to take in protecting not only the girls in his family, but associated families.

By giving him a role on the show, his parents enabled him to become a "star" giving him even more power should he decide to abuse other children. I find it reprehensible he should have been able to work with children all this time without anyone except the few knowing his predisposition and of his actual acts perpetrated on innocent girls. He was old enough to know better and he wasn't "playing doctor" as SuzDuJour mentioned. This was serious and yet shoved right under the proverbial Christian rug.

In Josh's case, we don't know that he is (or was at 14) only attracted to pre-pubescent children do we? Of his 5 victims, were they all pre-pubescent? Didn't he abuse some siblings that like himself, had started puberty?

I thought the definition of a pedofile was someone attracted only to prepubescent children. When I saw were JD's hand was in the pic with Sarah Palin, I got the impression he sexually objectifies all women. An odd line. I wonder how SP felt with his hand so close to her breast.

I find him creepy, no doubt. But I find the definition or role of women in that type of religious setting as odd. Demoralizing, demeaning, objectified..... hard to describe but it makes my skin crawl. Not my definition of a Godly man.

 

[bexlex]

Hints about the victims being blamed:

As we studied as a family, we found we could come up with our idea of what we thought modesty was, but we really wanted to see what the scriptures said about it. Our interpretation was that from the neck down to the knee should be covered. By keeping those private areas covered, there's not any "defrauding" going on. My kids are taught the definition of defrauding as stirring up desires that cannot be righteously fulfilled. We don't believe in defrauding others by the way we dress. And different people may be defrauded by different things. We can't control their thoughts, but we're responsible before God for our part. And so years ago, I just felt between me and my Lord that I really needed to dress modestly. http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/19-kids...g/michelle-duggar-why-she-chose-modest-dress/

Like Arkansas' very own morality police, they're also on the look out for ladies (perhaps words like "jezebel" and "harlot" were edited out in early drafts) who aren't subscribing to a similar dress code. Sure, they don't arrest people, but the family have a special code word for these provocative women, which is "Nike." Really, there's a code word: "That's a signal to the boys, and even to Dad, that they should nonchalantly drop their eyes and look down at their shoes as we walk past her... It's meant to help keep the guys' eyes from seeing things they shouldn't be seeing. By using the single-word signal, the warning can be given quietly and discreetly."

It's disconcertingly judgemental, and the narrative that men, even good Quiverfull men, are perennial victims of their crazed sex drives is far too common in contemporary religious-based lifestyle literature. (The Duggars mention it again when remembering Michelle's past as a cheerleader before finding God and Jim Bob: "She had no idea that dancing around in a short skirt in front of a bunch of boys was causing many of them to think sensual thoughts about her," the book reads.) http://www.cosmopolitan.com/entertainment/news/a21626/duggar-girls-book-quotes/

And I got it:
This is what the Duggar's long time religious leader, Bil Gothard, head of ATI (also caught in a sex scandal involving young girls, BTW, along with the molester Doug Phillips of Vision Forum who was also a dear, close friend of the Duggars), says about counseling those who have been sexually abused:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/micah-j-murray/growing-up-in-bill-gothar_b_5228166.html

(More later).

All that made me sick to my stomach.

 

[SCHMAE]

Man, this one chaps my hide so bad. How dare these people sweep this away? Were the victims his siblings? Is that verified or rumor ? Sorry ,mods.
And hats off to TLC for making a decision FOR VICTIMS first and foremost ! I applaud this move.

 

[oh_gal]

I wish I could be as kind as compassionate as those of you who feel badly for Josh because he was "only 14." To me, 14 is old enough to know that what you're doing is wrong. Even if your parents raised you with a lot of crappy, unreasonable expectations. You still, in your heart of hearts, know what you are doing is not right. Unless you are not dealing with reality. I mean, this isn't even one of those "gray areas". How, in his mind, did he arrive at the conclusion that what he was doing was ok? I guess maybe if he were 7, or 8 or 9...I might feel a bit of sympathy for him. And maybe even at 14, if he did it only once. But he didn't.

ETA: I blame his parents, as well, for the way they damaged him, and all of their children, by raising them this way. It's not an enviable position for any of them to be in. Unfortunately, they're (JimBob and Michelle) so steeped in this doctrine, that they probably, literally, don't see anything wrong with their thinking.

 

[EllieBee]

Hints about the victims being blamed:

As we studied as a family, we found we could come up with our idea of what we thought modesty was, but we really wanted to see what the scriptures said about it. Our interpretation was that from the neck down to the knee should be covered. By keeping those private areas covered, there's not any "defrauding" going on. My kids are taught the definition of defrauding as stirring up desires that cannot be righteously fulfilled. We don't believe in defrauding others by the way we dress. And different people may be defrauded by different things. We can't control their thoughts, but we're responsible before God for our part. And so years ago, I just felt between me and my Lord that I really needed to dress modestly. http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/19-kids...g/michelle-duggar-why-she-chose-modest-dress/

Like Arkansas' very own morality police, they're also on the look out for ladies (perhaps words like "jezebel" and "harlot" were edited out in early drafts) who aren't subscribing to a similar dress code. Sure, they don't arrest people, but the family have a special code word for these provocative women, which is "Nike." Really, there's a code word: "That's a signal to the boys, and even to Dad, that they should nonchalantly drop their eyes and look down at their shoes as we walk past her... It's meant to help keep the guys' eyes from seeing things they shouldn't be seeing. By using the single-word signal, the warning can be given quietly and discreetly."

It's disconcertingly judgemental, and the narrative that men, even good Quiverfull men, are perennial victims of their crazed sex drives is far too common in contemporary religious-based lifestyle literature. (The Duggars mention it again when remembering Michelle's past as a cheerleader before finding God and Jim Bob: "She had no idea that dancing around in a short skirt in front of a bunch of boys was causing many of them to think sensual thoughts about her," the book reads.) http://www.cosmopolitan.com/entertainment/news/a21626/duggar-girls-book-quotes/

And I got it:
This is what the Duggar's long time religious leader, Bil Gothard, head of ATI (also caught in a sex scandal involving young girls, BTW, along with the molester Doug Phillips of Vision Forum who was also a dear, close friend of the Duggars), says about counseling those who have been sexually abused:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/micah-j-murray/growing-up-in-bill-gothar_b_5228166.html

(More later).

Oh. My. God.
These people are twisted.

I'm all for tolerance of other people's beliefs. But when we start blaming sexual abuse victims for being responsible because they showed a kneecap or what have you? I call sick, misogynistic, patriarchal BS on them.

These are the people ranting about how awful the Muslim people are. In regards to women, they aren't much different. I guess maybe the fundies don't stone rape victims to death, they just blame them.

I will step away before I get REALLY angry, y'all.

 

[Inthedetails]

I actually feel a lot of sympathy for Josh. He was only 14. I think the weird, stilted religious family dynamics had a big impact upon his biological urges. He made very bad choices and I obviously hold him responsible. But I think back to my son at 14---he had a 'girlfriend' and they went to the movies and they held hands and had steamy make out sessions at that age. Josh had no outlets like that available to him. And he was taught those feelings/urges were wrong/bad/evil/sinful/etc....so I feel kind of sorry for him. :sigh:

What makes me mad is the parents' behavior. They had a kid clearly with a problem - it's NOT normal exploration or a mistake to fondle your sisters and it's really not normal to do it more than once. Yet, they respond by putting the family on TV.

That decision right there - to put the family on TV - is what I don't understand. I can understand parents wanting to "cure" the problem by sending the boy away for a few months of working in construction (or whatever the job was). I really do get that. They were hopeful it could be fixed with that outlet and separation. (ETA: I don't think this solution was the right one, just that I understand their hopefulness.)

But I don't get why they didn't provide something for the GIRLS, other than to parade their modesty on national TV for years on end.

 

[Betty P]

Josh is like any other criminal/sexual predator. He's already proven he's capable of lying and covering up the crimes he committed and only revealed them when he was forced to do so. He hasn't apologized to his victims, he hasn't accepted any level of accountability for his actions. Just because he's from a famous religious family doesn't make his crimes and sick behavior any more acceptable than that of a common sexual predator.

 

[SCHMAE]

Hints about the victims being blamed:

As we studied as a family, we found we could come up with our idea of what we thought modesty was, but we really wanted to see what the scriptures said about it. Our interpretation was that from the neck down to the knee should be covered. By keeping those private areas covered, there's not any "defrauding" going on. My kids are taught the definition of defrauding as stirring up desires that cannot be righteously fulfilled. We don't believe in defrauding others by the way we dress. And different people may be defrauded by different things. We can't control their thoughts, but we're responsible before God for our part. And so years ago, I just felt between me and my Lord that I really needed to dress modestly. http://www.tlc.com/tv-shows/19-kids...g/michelle-duggar-why-she-chose-modest-dress/

Like Arkansas' very own morality police, they're also on the look out for ladies (perhaps words like "jezebel" and "harlot" were edited out in early drafts) who aren't subscribing to a similar dress code. Sure, they don't arrest people, but the family have a special code word for these provocative women, which is "Nike." Really, there's a code word: "That's a signal to the boys, and even to Dad, that they should nonchalantly drop their eyes and look down at their shoes as we walk past her... It's meant to help keep the guys' eyes from seeing things they shouldn't be seeing. By using the single-word signal, the warning can be given quietly and discreetly."

It's disconcertingly judgemental, and the narrative that men, even good Quiverfull men, are perennial victims of their crazed sex drives is far too common in contemporary religious-based lifestyle literature. (The Duggars mention it again when remembering Michelle's past as a cheerleader before finding God and Jim Bob: "She had no idea that dancing around in a short skirt in front of a bunch of boys was causing many of them to think sensual thoughts about her," the book reads.) http://www.cosmopolitan.com/entertainment/news/a21626/duggar-girls-book-quotes/

And I got it:
This is what the Duggar's long time religious leader, Bil Gothard, head of ATI (also caught in a sex scandal involving young girls, BTW, along with the molester Doug Phillips of Vision Forum who was also a dear, close friend of the Duggars), says about counseling those who have been sexually abused:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/micah-j-murray/growing-up-in-bill-gothar_b_5228166.html

(More later).

This is sickening and I will try to contain my rantism on this thread but this very topic has been a personal issue in my family's life and was also carried out by a ' man of God' and that makes it all the harder on the victim. Shame upon the victim's head but no shame on the perpetrator ! SICK SICK SICK !

 

[katydid23]

I wish I could be as kind as compassionate as those of you who feel badly for Josh because he was "only 14." To me, 14 is old enough to know that what you're doing is wrong. Even if your parents raised you with a lot of crappy, unreasonable expectations. You still, in your heart of hearts, know what you are doing is not right. Unless you are not dealing with reality. I mean, this isn't even one of those "gray areas". How, in his mind, did he arrive at the conclusion that what he was doing was ok? I guess maybe if he were 7, or 8 or 9...I might feel a bit of sympathy for him. And maybe even at 14, if he did it only once. But he didn't.

I think '14' in that family is actually 'younger' than most 14 yr olds. They are abused imo: taught 'not to move' off the blanket, 'not to look' at immodest girls, to avert their eyes, to disconnect from their biological urges.

I don't think he ever thought it was 'OK.' I think it was a cry for help. He knew it wasn't OK.

I am an incest survivor. I do not take these kinds of crimes lightly. But for some reason, because of the arse-baxckwards way this family reared their kids, I tend to see Josh as one of the victims too. JMO

 

[Betty P]

Oh. My. God.
These people are twisted.

I'm all for tolerance of other people's beliefs. But when we start blaming sexual abuse victims for being responsible because they showed a kneecap or what have you? I call sick, misogynistic, patriarchal BS on them.

These are the people ranting about how awful the Muslim people are. In regards to women, they aren't much different. I guess maybe the fundies don't stone rape victims to death, they just blame them.

I will step away before I get REALLY angry, y'all.

Agree, these people are extremely sick and twisted. Misogyny, absolutely. Their beliefs are not only illegal and immoral, they're socially unacceptable.

 

[RazTaz]

At the end of 2002, they had 14 children. Only five were girls. The house on Johnson Road had three, maybe four, bedrooms. Michelle was still making the kid's clothes.Well, by that time, Jana and Jill were doing the sewing. It is also about that time that the Duggars left the church they had been attending and started one of their own. I don't know how all this contributed to the situation, or vice versa. I'm only stating some facts I know from living in the area and somewhat knowing them. If the rumors that I've heard through the years are true, this won't be the last bombshell. I truly hate that this one was true.

 

[SCHMAE]

And not to get too far out of the box but I think many of us know what type of environment fosters children who act out sexually ........... so ......... where will this end?

 

[oh_gal]

I think '14' in that family is actually 'younger' than most 14 yr olds. They are abused imo: taught 'not to move' off the blanket, 'not to look' at immodest girls, to avert their eyes, to disconnect from their biological urges.

I don't think he ever thought it was 'OK.' I think it was a cry for help. He knew it wasn't OK.

I am an incest survivor. I do not take these kinds of crimes lightly. But for some reason, because of the arse-baxckwards way this family reared their kids, I tend to see Josh as one of the victims too. JMO

(above, bbm)
That's a good point, that I keep forgetting.
With what has happened to you, you have a perspective on this that I don't. I'm sorry for what you went through, and I admire the grace you are extending to Josh.

 

[Bravo]

This is sickening and I will try to contain my rantism on this thread but this very topic has been a personal issue in my family's life and was also carried out by a ' man of God' and that makes it all the harder on the victim. Shame upon the victim's head but no shame on the perpetrator ! SICK SICK SICK !

Good to see you SCHMAE. So sorry to hear it is a personal issue for you. When I worked with these predators I lasted a year in that sector. It ate at me. Transferred out.

 

[SCHMAE]

It would be extremely rare. I can only speak to the Clients I had and every single one of them would re offend if given the opportunity and justify it. I heard the gammit he or she wanted it etc etc. At age 3!!!!! Josh's environment certainly was far from the norm. I do wonder and I do hope for the sake of his own children and others this is something he over came once he could have normal relations. So sad all the damage that has been done. It is a most unusual case.
ETA-I am greatly disturbed by the ages of victims

I have not read this much at all. I assumed they were similar in age to him. Not so ?

 

[Bravo]

And not to get too far out of the box but I think many of us know what type of environment fosters children who act out sexually ........... so ......... where will this end?

That's what worries me. Anytime a crime is hidden behind a facade and "treated" by say religion the outcome is never good. Especially for victims. So much damage has been done to these girls.

 

[LietKynes]

I have no idea anymore which link I saw it in but I read one of the victims asked for it to be destroyed, for fear that an unredacted version would be released and the details of what happened to her would get out

RSBM
bolded by me

For instance -- and I believe this could be possible -- if Josh actually had sex with one of those girls (didn't like typing that ) , she would be considered in those circles to be 'damaged goods' and henceforth unable to be married ; or at least not married with very strict rules and surveillance imposed upon her, by her husband.
This is what I'm assuming from what I've read about these people.
I haven't personally met or even know of anyone like this group.

And FGS Josh and the rest of your family and FRC --- STOP waging war on the LGBT community ! For creeps sakes . Like someone else's lifestyle (which btw does not harm the Duggars in the least ) is going to harm you.
As if being in a consenting relationship with another adult who loves you is somehow worse than abusing young children !

:moo:

 

[gitana1]

Do you think the way he was raised trumps the possibility of him being sexually abused a child?

I think it increases the possibility.