AR - Josh Duggar Admits Molesting Girls As A Teenager - #1

[jjenny]

Wow. I agree that juvenile records should be sealed and I have no idea how these were released. Other than that, wow. He molested very small children. Repeatedly. Even after confession and being "disciplined" for it. That's not "poor decisions." A poor decision would be failing to put oil in your motor, not taking an umbrella on a darkly cloudy day, picking the wrong major in college, dating a loser. But molesting five girls over and over again? I'm sorry. IMO, that's quite a bit more than a "poor decision".

And he never obtained true help for what he did which was totally covered up until the staff at the Oprah show got wind of it. So this is alarming.

In the meantime, these people are portraying to the world a model of purity and perfect parenting, while advocating hard for laws that discriminate against the LGBT community, calling such people "pedophiles" that threaten the family. Hypocrisy much?

Records were requested and obtained by the press through freedom of information act.

 

[kalekona]

The only wrong here is on the Duggers, The records were obtained legally. It's called the Freedom of Information Act. JD was an adult when the 2006 investigation took place.

 

[gitana1]

If the records were not illegally obtained and made public, this thread would not be here. Who is responsible for that wrong? Will they be publicly shamed as adults for a recently committed crime? No. But Josh Duggar will again, right now.

Exposing dangerous hypocrites and purposefully long-buried serial crimes against victims who were as young as 5 or 6, especially when the only way those crimes were addressed was with hard labor, Christian mentoring and probably a good whipping of the perp, while the victims simply received an apology, is a good thing. I'm so confused how exposing that is the same as repeatedly molesting several children.

 

[gitana1]

Records were requested and obtained by the press through freedom of information act.

The confusion is because juvenile records cannot be obtained by the FOIA. They are sealed in every state.

The only wrong here are on the Duggers, The records were obtained legally. It's called the Freedom of Information Act. JD was an adult when the 2006 investigation took place.

That makes some sense. Josh was already an adult so even though he committed the crimes as a juvenile, perhaps the timing of the investigation is at play here.

 

[gitana1]

I have never heard of these people, but I get the distinct impression they will now be used as a propaganda tool to foment more hate towards real Christians JMO

I don't think there's really much hate toward real Christians actually. I'm beginning to think there aren't many of those, sadly. I think much of the resentment is toward hypocrites who judge and impose their will on others while not keeping their own houses clean.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I have never heard of these people, but I get the distinct impression they will now be used as a propaganda tool to foment more hate towards real Christians JMO

Oh, I don't think people are dumb enough to use extremists as a propaganda tool to foment more hate toward real/moderate practitioners of a faith.

Oh, wait.

 

[LaborDayRN]

Does anyone remember when TLC stood for "The Learning Channel"? Holy cow.....what happened to that concept?

 

[Curious Guy]

I don't think there's really much hate toward real Christians actually. I'm beginning to think there aren't many of those, sadly. I think much of the resentment is toward hypocrites who judge and impose their will on others while not keeping their own houses clean.

While I tend to agree with your overall sentiment, to imply there is not a resentment of Christians within a certain segment of our society ( I'm looking at you higher education academia) is naive. JMO

 

[Montjoy]

Let's not forget that none of this would have seen the light of day -- or, at any rate, received the attention it has -- if his parents hadn't agreed to have their family (adults and minors) participate in a 'reality TV show' for money.

When his parents agreed to being the focus of this program, they put their son at risk. I'm not in any way diminishing his wrongdoing here, nor am I suggesting that there shouldn't have been consequences, but let's just consider his parents' role in this media event. If they hadn't gone for the money of being the focus of a TV show, we would never have heard of Josh Duggar or the awful things he did as a teenager.

 

[Montjoy]

I don't think there's really much hate toward real Christians actually. I'm beginning to think there aren't many of those, sadly. I think much of the resentment is toward hypocrites who judge and impose their will on others while not keeping their own houses clean.

I want to commend the posters here for not judging Josh or his family for being Christians. I would hope that people would extend the same courtesy to Muslims, and hope that the next time a Muslim commits some sort of crime that it isn't seen as a general indictment against Islam.

 

[LaborDayRN]

I don't think there's really much hate toward real Christians actually. I'm beginning to think there aren't many of those, sadly. I think much of the resentment is toward hypocrites who judge and impose their will on others while not keeping their own houses clean.

I think there are plenty of "real Christians" (whatever that means). We are quietly going about our daily lives with faith. Some of us (me) even have sons and daughters who are in committed same sex relationships (married) with partners who are also Christians. We don't garner much attention though. No TV show. :giggle:

 

[BeginnersLuck]

It is the hypocrisy that is so disturbing to me. The "fake" persona that we are all perfect and those that shout it at the top of their lungs and judge others. Then....the dirt comes out that they have demons worse than those they judge....How sad is that!

 

[Boytwnmom]

The time line is confusing. The molestation happened in 2002/2003. The police report is from 2006 and emanated from a "faxed report" and a "caller" who reported the abuse as they were concerned it was never reported and Josh had never received treatment.

So, the Duggars get summoned based on that callers report. That's the first "official" reporting-in 2006! At that time Jim Bob told them he had gone to a state trooper friend back when it happened but that no report had been filed. That, of course, was the child *advertiser censored* state trooper now in prison.

On December 12, 2006, the child victims were interviewed.There is also mention of the letter that was written about the abuse at the time of the abuse, 3 1/2 yrs earlier. The Duggars would not disclose who wrote the letter (which makes it sound like they knew or the police thought they knew and the police later find out). Someone from their church borrowed the book with the letter in it. This was also at the time the Duggars were supposed to be on Oprah and someone (the same letter person it turns out) e-mailed her/the show about the abuse. Then Oprah show faxed the letter to the Human Services dept (that's the faxed report reference) and that started the investigation.

The fax was from someone alleging that the Duggars weren't what they seemed etc and about the abuse and how Jim Bob had been hiding this secret.

The the interviews begin:

A child first came (allegedly-not sure I believe anything he says) to Jim Bob in march 2002 saying Josh had been coming in and touching her....happened 4 or 5 times.... Then something about Josh admitting in July 2002 he had fondled one of the girls.They "disciplined" him. Nine months later, March 2003, Jim Bob is told of two more incidents (probably including the one with the youngest victim who was 6 as it occurred as he was reading to her as she sat on his lap...).

The Jim Bob tells his church elders (seriously? church elders?-I know whenever I report a crime I call the church elders...) and they "all agree" Josh needs to go to a "treatment program". They all decided it was too "dangerous" or something to send him to an ACTUAL program because Josh "might be exposed to other offenders and things they didn't want him exposed to" (of course, Josh being a "christian" and all, you need to protect Josh's purity I guess-ARGHHHHH).

Jim Bob says they sent him to a different program which had a name he "couldn't remember" but it consisted of hard physical work and counseling (it was of course NOT an actual program). Josh went from March-July 2003. Jim Bob and Michelle said they were confident nothing else ever happened and Josh apologized and he was forgiven. So, end of story as far as the Duggars were concerned.

They were asked why this had come up now (but not asked why this crime was never properly dealt with-oh no, just why are we being bothered with this now!) and they just told police about the letter in the book and the person who found it had called. Then they did ask if it had ever been reported and Jim Bob told about the child *advertiser censored* trooper guy he knew and how he and some church elders and Josh all went to the trooper and told him and he gave Josh a "stern talk" (who needs trials & prisons when you've got a stern talking child pornographer state trooper?).

Then the children-they drew pictures and the various victims recounted the touching episodes. Kind of difficult to follow because so much was redacted. They all told of how Josh apologized. A couple children said Josh was having "moral struggles" (sounds so much nicer then committing a crime). One said Josh apologized and went away for 3 months and said nothing had happened since. Another said Josh went away to a place for people with struggles and he worked and read scriptures. One child told about abuse while a story reading was going on-he pulled up her dress and pulled down her pants and someone called the parents.One child started to cry when asked if she knew why she was there. She was abused in the laundry room and in her bed. One child told about being hit with a rod. The last child appears to be the non-immediate family member and did not appear to really recall the incident although someone else must have observed it.

In the middle of the child interviews, then they ask JB to bring Josh in and JB said he'd see if Josh wanted to talk (WTH). Someone, I assume JB, says everything is good with the family and he didn't want to make this into a "bigger deal than what it was".

Then JB's atty called the Investigator asking about what time Josh's interview was. Then they discovered who had written the letter and that it was the same person had sent the e-mail to Oprah. Then the attorney calls again and says Josh won't be coming in for an interview.

They did forward it to the child services office and noted there were no offenses within the SOL. Then the attorney called again and said he wasn't representing Josh or the Duggars and had referred them to someone else who also wouldn't represent them. And then the report ends.

And their show started in 2008. They must have felt free and clear and believed it was over. But wouldn't they be worried about the caller/faxer who knew all about it? Did she stop? If so, why? She seemed very concerned but then they get their own show and she does nothing? Doesn't match up with her previous actions.

I wonder what ever happened with the Family in Need of Services (FINS) affidavit? I can't believe no one ever did anything for those abused girls. Is it really so easy to shrug off this kind of abuse? It's not like it was one girl or even just a girl his own age which might lend itself to a more sexual exploration motivation. But the victims were from 6-12 according to the media report I heard earlier. That just seems to be clearly pedophilia type behavior. 6 year old girls are not sexually stimulating to normal oriented males as far as I know.

This whole thing was handled so badly and with so little concern for the victims or the law. Can someone with multiple offenses and possible pedo really be "cured" by working and reading scriptures for 3 months? That doesn't strike me as remotely plausible.

What can you even say about this? These parents just make me ill. From what I've read, JB is kind of creepy himself. I thought they were so puritanical but I read how he was basically mimicking sex with Michelle while mini-golfing with Jessa & Ben before they were married and that he kind of jokes or teases about them being able to have sex or how much they have sex. Whatever, it sounds totally weird given the family's stance.

Who knows what else lurks behind their sanctimonious facade? I'm not sure I want to know. But I sure wish some of those kids would escape.

My question is if Oprah's producers received email tip about the family secrets two years before TLC gave them their own show was TLC alerted also? Discovery communications TLC's parent company needs to take a close look at TLC. What was really known and when. I can't imagine Oprah's show would get a email tip and TLC would not. The tip person would just drop the issue when Duggars are on TV every week. I have not seen this show. Jmo

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2015/05/the-downfall-of-the-duggars/394013/

ciao

 

[katydid23]

But he was the one creeping around molesting four of his younger sisters.

Which was obviously a very poor, WRONG choice. And being an incest survivor, I very rarely defend such actions.

However, in this case, I do defend Josh in some ways because of the twisted way his family described his NORMAL sexual urges to him. They blocked his ability to have NORMAL adolescent outlets. He did not do what the average American 14 yr old did to deal with those hormones. He could not date nor even 'hang out' with girls. They were seen as IMMODEST and DIRTY, UNCLEAN things to be rejected. I feel that his family and their warped religious view is more to blame than him, JMO.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

These people have been glorified by the media. They are not any better than anyone else. It's all fake. People need to stop watching television and thinking you can get rich like these families have from "reality" (lol reality) tv!

This is not reality and Archie Bunker was more real than these people are on the shows on this channel.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Which was obviously a very poor, WRONG choice. And being an incest survivor, I very rarely defend such actions.

However, in this case, I do defend Josh in some ways because of the twisted way his family described his NORMAL sexual urges to him. They blocked his ability to have NORMAL adolescent outlets. He did not do what the average American 14 yr old did to deal with those hormones. He could not date nor even 'hang out' with girls. They were seen as IMMODEST and DIRTY, UNCLEAN things to be rejected. I feel that his family and their warped religious view is more to blame than him, JMO.

Good article on this topic:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/..._he_also_deserves_some_pity.html?wpsrc=fol_fb

Josh may be a monster—but as 19 Kids and Counting demonstrates, his path to depravity was lighted by the twisted beliefs of his parents.

 

[Reader]

If the records were not illegally obtained and made public, this thread would not be here. Who is responsible for that wrong? Will they be publicly shamed as adults for a recently committed crime? No. But Josh Duggar will again, right now.

It's not just here. If the Washington Post is covering this case, it should be alright for WS to cover it also.

These crimes were committed years ago, not recently, but have been hidden. Do you agree with abuse of children being hidden?

 

[K_Z]

So, I’ve been following this story. The issues, IMO, are were these instances simply youthful indiscretions in a highly repressive, hyper-religious household, or were these instances the earliest indicators of an adolescent with emerging pedophilia?

At first, I agreed with one of Gitana’s early posts, that this was probably a case where an adolescent boy in a suffocatingly repressive environment took an opportunity “to cop a feel” or 2, or perhaps was clandestinely “dating” and engaging in heavy petting with another adolescent. Then it came out that the victims were his younger sisters—and at least one or more was “much younger”. As in pre-pubescent. And they were stalked and victimized while vulnerable, and some while sleeping. That’s not a youthful indiscretion, “copping a feel”, or clandestinely dating and petting.

And at first, I was at least satisfied that the parents were involved, and knew what was going on, and disapproved of it. And contacted LE, and sent him to “therapy” camp. Until I heard that they sent him to a completely non-professionally educated religious “friend” who had him do some manual labor (for free?) for a few weeks, and provided “counseling.” And then it came out that the counselor/ mentor is now a felon in PRISON for 60+ years for possessing child *advertiser censored*.

So the more that comes out on this, the more I don’t at all believe that the “issue” was solved—even though it’s been 12 years. The professional literature that I have (albeit very briefly) perused, indicate that JD’s actions are consistent with the earliest expressions of a pedophile. Pedophilia almost always emerges in early adolescence, when all other sexual urges and preferences are emerging. That he is now married with 4 kids (well, 3 and imminently 4), does not exclude the possibility that he may be clinically mentally and physically attracted to prepubescent children. That is a HUGE worry, especially in the close confines of mega-families with repressive sexual ideas.

The only way to address this mess, for JD (IMO), is to voluntarily submit to REAL (not “religious advisors”) medical and psychological evaluation and treatment. If he is a pedophile, he and his wife and extended family need to know that, and he and his wife need to receive appropriate long-term therapy and supervision. If he isn’t, then that will soon be apparent in the evaluations. Pedophilia cannot be “cured”. There are serious doubts in the medical and behavioral sciences whether it can even be “controlled”, with behavior therapy or medication. If he IS a pedophile, he is at serious risk, TODAY, to commit suicide, as well—his entire world, and that of his family, has been shamed and destroyed by this revelation. People struggling with rejecting pedphilic urges often have deep self-hate, and resort to suicide. Technically, JD was only 13-14 at the time of the molestations, and the DSM says over age 16, and victims/ targets at least 5 years younger, for more than 6 months duration. So he may not have met the actual diagnostic criteria for pedophilia when he was 13-14, being under age 16. But now??

I hate to be nosy, but I wanna know what’s on his computers. Because real peodphiles ALWAYS have an outlet for their urges, and most have child *advertiser censored* somewhere.

I am just not convinced that this is over and done with. But this group, because of their fundamentalist views, will go to the ends of the earth, IMO, to cover up or hide anything else related to pedophilia and incest.

http://www.hawaii.edu/hivandaids/Profile of the Adolescent Sex Offender.pdf

*Warning- this one has some explicit verbal descriptions- avoid if sensitive
https://medium.com/matter/youre-16-...o-hurt-anyone-what-do-you-do-now-e11ce4b88bdb

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15985890

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3793342

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9588305

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0160252786900208

 

[kimi_SFC]

The "Thanks" button is simply not enough K_Z!
Your willingness to educate us, give us scholarly journal references to read, and your professional opinion (gitana1 as well), makes all the difference when trying to make sense of such a complex and painful issue. :loveyou:
Sadly, I am in agreement that this may be the tip of the iceberg - and this makes me angry and sad. The so-called "Learning Channel" has continued to give negative reinforcement to these families - paying them to live their "lives" out on camera, exploiting their children for financial gain, while at the same time they've had to hide their abuse beneath a façade that all was/is well.
The fact that this happened, literally, at the hands of their own family member makes me :sick: and I'm even more incensed at how the elder Duggars chose to handle it (by not handling it).

The victims were failed, and will need help in ways I'm concerned they may not get. That, in and of itself, is criminal.
:moo:



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[gitana1]

I think there are plenty of "real Christians" (whatever that means). We are quietly going about our daily lives with faith. Some of us (me) even have sons and daughters who are in committed same sex relationships (married) with partners who are also Christians. We don't garner much attention though. No TV show. :giggle:

I guess I'm feeling cynical tonight.