AR - Josh Duggar Admits Molesting Girls As A Teenager - #1

[LaborDayRN]

I guess I'm feeling cynical tonight.

:hug: It's a very disturbing subject.

 

[gitana1]

The time line is confusing. The molestation happened in 2002/2003. The police report is from 2006 and emanated from a "faxed report" and a "caller" who reported the abuse as they were concerned it was never reported and Josh had never received treatment.

So, the Duggars get summoned based on that callers report. That's the first "official" reporting-in 2006! At that time Jim Bob told them he had gone to a state trooper friend back when it happened but that no report had been filed. That, of course, was the child *advertiser censored* state trooper now in prison.

On December 12, 2006, the child victims were interviewed.There is also mention of the letter that was written about the abuse at the time of the abuse, 3 1/2 yrs earlier. The Duggars would not disclose who wrote the letter (which makes it sound like they knew or the police thought they knew and the police later find out). Someone from their church borrowed the book with the letter in it. This was also at the time the Duggars were supposed to be on Oprah and someone (the same letter person it turns out) e-mailed her/the show about the abuse. Then Oprah show faxed the letter to the Human Services dept (that's the faxed report reference) and that started the investigation.

The fax was from someone alleging that the Duggars weren't what they seemed etc and about the abuse and how Jim Bob had been hiding this secret.

The the interviews begin:

A child first came (allegedly-not sure I believe anything he says) to Jim Bob in march 2002 saying Josh had been coming in and touching her....happened 4 or 5 times.... Then something about Josh admitting in July 2002 he had fondled one of the girls.They "disciplined" him. Nine months later, March 2003, Jim Bob is told of two more incidents (probably including the one with the youngest victim who was 6 as it occurred as he was reading to her as she sat on his lap...).

The Jim Bob tells his church elders (seriously? church elders?-I know whenever I report a crime I call the church elders...) and they "all agree" Josh needs to go to a "treatment program". They all decided it was too "dangerous" or something to send him to an ACTUAL program because Josh "might be exposed to other offenders and things they didn't want him exposed to" (of course, Josh being a "christian" and all, you need to protect Josh's purity I guess-ARGHHHHH).

Jim Bob says they sent him to a different program which had a name he "couldn't remember" but it consisted of hard physical work and counseling (it was of course NOT an actual program). Josh went from March-July 2003. Jim Bob and Michelle said they were confident nothing else ever happened and Josh apologized and he was forgiven. So, end of story as far as the Duggars were concerned.

They were asked why this had come up now (but not asked why this crime was never properly dealt with-oh no, just why are we being bothered with this now!) and they just told police about the letter in the book and the person who found it had called. Then they did ask if it had ever been reported and Jim Bob told about the child *advertiser censored* trooper guy he knew and how he and some church elders and Josh all went to the trooper and told him and he gave Josh a "stern talk" (who needs trials & prisons when you've got a stern talking child pornographer state trooper?).

Then the children-they drew pictures and the various victims recounted the touching episodes. Kind of difficult to follow because so much was redacted. They all told of how Josh apologized. A couple children said Josh was having "moral struggles" (sounds so much nicer then committing a crime). One said Josh apologized and went away for 3 months and said nothing had happened since. Another said Josh went away to a place for people with struggles and he worked and read scriptures. One child told about abuse while a story reading was going on-he pulled up her dress and pulled down her pants and someone called the parents.One child started to cry when asked if she knew why she was there. She was abused in the laundry room and in her bed. One child told about being hit with a rod. The last child appears to be the non-immediate family member and did not appear to really recall the incident although someone else must have observed it.

In the middle of the child interviews, then they ask JB to bring Josh in and JB said he'd see if Josh wanted to talk (WTH). Someone, I assume JB, says everything is good with the family and he didn't want to make this into a "bigger deal than what it was".

Then JB's atty called the Investigator asking about what time Josh's interview was. Then they discovered who had written the letter and that it was the same person had sent the e-mail to Oprah. Then the attorney calls again and says Josh won't be coming in for an interview.

They did forward it to the child services office and noted there were no offenses within the SOL. Then the attorney called again and said he wasn't representing Josh or the Duggars and had referred them to someone else who also wouldn't represent them. And then the report ends.

And their show started in 2008. They must have felt free and clear and believed it was over. But wouldn't they be worried about the caller/faxer who knew all about it? Did she stop? If so, why? She seemed very concerned but then they get their own show and she does nothing? Doesn't match up with her previous actions.

I wonder what ever happened with the Family in Need of Services (FINS) affidavit? I can't believe no one ever did anything for those abused girls. Is it really so easy to shrug off this kind of abuse? It's not like it was one girl or even just a girl his own age which might lend itself to a more sexual exploration motivation. But the victims were from 6-12 according to the media report I heard earlier. That just seems to be clearly pedophilia type behavior. 6 year old girls are not sexually stimulating to normal oriented males as far as I know.

This whole thing was handled so badly and with so little concern for the victims or the law. Can someone with multiple offenses and possible pedo really be "cured" by working and reading scriptures for 3 months? That doesn't strike me as remotely plausible.

What can you even say about this? These parents just make me ill. From what I've read, JB is kind of creepy himself. I thought they were so puritanical but I read how he was basically mimicking sex with Michelle while mini-golfing with Jessa & Ben before they were married and that he kind of jokes or teases about them being able to have sex or how much they have sex. Whatever, it sounds totally weird given the family's stance.

Who knows what else lurks behind their sanctimonious facade? I'm not sure I want to know. But I sure wish some of those kids would escape.

Early internet rumors that no one believed until now and that have been proved to be totally accurate this far indicated that the eldest sister was not a victim. But other than saying who is not a victim, I don't feel good about definitively identifying these victims. Poor things.

 

[kdgdid]

No in 2006 JD was 17,a minor

The only wrong here is on the Duggers, The records were obtained legally. It's called the Freedom of Information Act. JD was an adult when the 2006 investigation took place.

 

[Inthedetails]

I guess that's what happens when you sell your soul to the media.

You got that right!!!

 

[kdgdid]

I did not see that in the report could you cite the pg please

Pretty certain. The report made sure to mention that the oldest sister was [supposedly] not molested by JD. That leaves the other four sisters plus the non-related female child.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

No in 2006 JD was 17,a minor

He was born in March 1988 according to the info online. Do the math. It's close enough. I could care less how old he is. I am more concerned about those that are exposed to him. I am especially concerned if he didn't have adequate counseling when he was young.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Here is a clip from 14 Children and Pregnant Again episode from 2004. This was just after Josh returned from "treatment"

[video=youtube;I5nGQE-pqnI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5nGQE-pqnI[/video]

 

[PHB]

You know, I always sort of liked Mike Huckabee.

We couldn't be farther apart in ideologies, but I respect the way he holds his own against people like Bill Maher and Steven Colbert. He seemed like someone who was comfortable in his belief system without needing to force others to subscribe.

But now I think I agree that Huckabee is off his ever-lovin' rocker.

Oh, yeah, Mike Huckabee is real big on forgiveness:

from wikipedia

As Governor, Huckabee commuted and accepted recommendations for pardon for twice as many sentences as his three predecessors combined; in total: 1,033 prisoners.[36] Twelve had previously been convicted of murder.

He released lifelong violent felon Maurice Clemmons, who went on commit more violent felonies, including sexually abusing two of his nieces, and murdering 4 LEO's in WA:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Clemmons

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakewood,_Washington_police_officer_shooting

That was the only high-profile case linked to his pardon-spree; I would love see a list of all the violent felonies perpetrated by criminals he "forgave".

/rant off

 

[jjenny]

He was born in March 1988 according to the info online. Do the math. It's close enough. I could care less how old he is. I am more concerned about those that are exposed to him. I am especially concerned if he didn't have adequate counseling when he was young.

So he would turn 18 in march of 2006. So he was already 18 at the time of the police report.

 

[Montjoy]

Good article about the public response to Josh Duggar:

http://globalnews.ca/news/2011509/1...Article&utm_medium=Outbrain&utm_campaign=2015

 

[bessie]

ADMIN NOTE: In the best interest of the victims, and with respect to their privacy, let's NOT try to pinpoint which siblings OR non-siblings might have been victims of abuse.

Thank you.

 

[BeginnersLuck]

Good article about the public response to Josh Duggar:

http://globalnews.ca/news/2011509/1...Article&utm_medium=Outbrain&utm_campaign=2015

How does one that committed those awful things against their own family members, go on to work for a organization that is so full of hate? How do you justify that? Is it deflection for their own actions? Are they trying to take some very sick things that they did and blame it on totally innocent people?

This whole thing makes me feel sick to my stomach.

 

[PHB]

At the end of 2002, they had 14 children. Only five were girls. The house on Johnson Road had three, maybe four, bedrooms. Michelle was still making the kid's clothes.Well, by that time, Jana and Jill were doing the sewing. It is also about that time that the Duggars left the church they had been attending and started one of their own. I don't know how all this contributed to the situation, or vice versa. I'm only stating some facts I know from living in the area and somewhat knowing them. If the rumors that I've heard through the years are true, this won't be the last bombshell. I truly hate that this one was true.

BBM

An acquaintance who's an LEO over there told me the same thing a few hrs ago.

 

[gitana1]

No in 2006 JD was 17,a minor

The investigation took place in December 2006. Josh was born in March 1988. He was 18 at the time of the investgation. Two months shy of 19.

 

[gitana1]

BBM

An acquaintance who's an LEO over there told me the same thing a few hrs ago.

Oh geez. I really hope that's not true. This is such horrible stuff really.

 

[PHB]

Lena Dunham was 7 years old not 14. Huge difference!

As old as 13:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_facto...use_allegations_ridiculous_and_dangerous.html

Article above attempts to minimize it b/c her 7 y/o sister was asleep while she was masturbating next to her.

Dunham is a freakshow; google "carroll dunham art" (her dad) and see what kind of household she grew up in.

Sorry for the derail; I won't post about her anymore.

 

[Donjeta]

How does one that committed those awful things against their own family members, go on to work for a organization that is so full of hate? How do you justify that? Is it deflection for their own actions? Are they trying to take some very sick things that they did and blame it on totally innocent people?

This whole thing makes me feel sick to my stomach.

He could be just your garden variety hypocrite who thought it'd be good for his career, and trusted his luck that no one would ever find out because he's the golden boy and we're the Duggars and who would believe it anyway. The rumors have been circulating for years apparently and this is the first time it was taken seriously so he could have felt intouchable.

But maybe he thinks on some level that he ought to be a good person because that's what God wants but he hasn't really got a clue how that good person thing works. Because it's tricky, it requires compassion and understanding and kindness...

so holding himself up as some kind of defender of family values and protector of traditional America and a beacon of sexual purity is the closest he can get to faking it.

He ought to have a party with Bill Cosby, they'd have a whale of a time.

I blame the parents largely. They continued to appear on TV praising their wholesome Christian family while dealing with this abuse, and told the kids to shut up and pretend nothing ever happened and we have such team spirit and work things out without conflicts. They made the girls publish a book about how great it is to grow up as a Duggar which I haven't read but I've no doubt it makes no mention about how it feels to be sexually abused in the family.

So with such a model how could Josh have escaped growing up thinking being a hypocrite is the right thing?

 

[gitana1]

As old as 13:


http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_facto...use_allegations_ridiculous_and_dangerous.html


Article above attempts to minimize it b/c her 7 y/o sister was asleep while she was masturbating next to her.


Dunham is a freakshow; google "carroll dunham art" (her dad) and see what kind of household she grew up in.


Sorry for the derail; I won't post about her anymore.

No. Masturbating next to your same sex sibling is not the same thing as repeatedly groping them sexually. Please. And she also has never represented herself as a paragon of virtue nor judged others or tried to create laws that infringed on their lives. The Duggars, the ones who did not (like Lena Dunham, who apparently wrote about her experiences in a book), admit the skeleton in their closet until someone else let the cat out of the bag, have worked hard to deny civil rights to others based on their sexual orientation, etc.

 

[PHB]

Last night before I went to bed I read the three pages of this thread. When I went up to bed and turned on the tv, the show was on.

I don't like "fake". I don't like these shows that proclaim to be reality when they are clearly not. There are many people that watch these shows and look up to them and then all of a sudden it becomes a trend. Some that may have come from broken, dysfunctional homes may watch the show and think that if the "Duggars" can do it so can I. It is all made to look so loving and innocent without any real life conflict.

These shows are nothing more than a illusion to draw in viewers.

Some shows are about the very few that have made it big in music.

The lifestyle is glorified and it gives a false persona to those that idolize the less than 1% that have become wealthy because some producer used the one family to draw in ratings.

Why are so many so gullible? Everyone would love to have financial security and peace.

Last night on the show, they were out shopping for wedding dresses. The parents home and the adult siblings homes are all beautiful. Their clothing, hair, makeup, ect. looked perfect. Show biz perfect. There was no financial stress about the wedding. Please! Like I said I don't like "fake". It misleads others into thinking that the grass is much greener on the other side of the fence.

I will comment on the rest of the story in a minute. This post is long enough. lol

BBM

To be fair, I've seen a few episodes of the show and I noticed the fleet of Duggar vehicles included a used Chevy Impala police car, older American mini-vans, and older American full-size SUV's.

Also, their garage had at least 2 big chest freezers and was lined with shelves full of assorted groceries, indicating they buy foodstuffs in bulk.

They had a saying, something like "buy used and invest the difference" iirc, that they said in almost every episode I've seen.

And who knows what the network was paying them.

I hope for their sake they can get by w/o the TV show money.

 

[wallflower67]

So do you think it's possible that a young person can sexually molest prepubescent children but not actually turn out to be a pedophile? I suspect it can be true but I'm not an expert. And since someone did the math above and determined one of the victims had to be about 6, oh boy. That's a bad sign. But I sure hope it's true that it could be other than pedophilia.

I just find the whole environment in this case of a very sexually charged/sexually focused atmosphere combined with extreme repression when it comes to the body, masturbation and even to normal thoughts a teen boy would have about sex, along with the kids not being able to socialize or even fantasize about members of the opposite sex who are their own ages, to be a pressure cooker for a 14 year old. At that age, sex is on the mind of a boy every minute of every waking hour. And he literally had no outlet. He didn't even have the privacy of his own thoughts without feeling guilt.

These people teach that you must not even entertain romantic thoughts, or read romance novels or daydream about members of the opposite sex until God calls you to court someone specific. And they have zero privacy. There are always a herd of other kids in their rooms, etc. They have little opportunity to even masturbate. So what do they do with all their feelings, physical and otherwise?

I just hope that once he was able to actually have sex, and be married, that he became more normal.

I think Josh is what would be called an opportunistic offender. He was a young teen just starting puberty (boys mature later than girls) with no sexual outlet, who had been raised that sex was shameful, and probably masturbation too. I think he was curious, aroused, and very emotionally stunted. He only had access to young girls to "explore" with. Unfortunately, that exploration was also victimization.

a normal 14yo boy would be going to school and be around girls his age, maybe have a first kiss....hopefully not TOO much more than that at age 14! But some making out would be normal (though most parents would cringe a bit!)

I think that he admitted it then and continues to admit it now and seems to feel generally remorseful (both then and now) is a good sign that this was a childhood exploration thing. I doubt he is a pedophile.

I hope I'm right.