Holly Bobo found deceased, discussion thread *Arrests* #7

[ThoughtFox]

I'm also wondering what the state could possibly have that leads them to the conclusion that abuse beyond what was necessary to cause death occurred.

Usually they judge that by condition of the remains. Could be multiple blows to the head, strangulation, broken bones before burial, use of sharp objects that made marks on bone - just guessing, but you can use your imagination. These guys are sociopaths without remorse, so . . .

 

[ThoughtFox]

Thanks.

Since we only heard about hard drive type data, I am concerned that the PA is not turning over any physical evidence like the "Bucket" and contents like the Skull to allow the DT to do their own analysis of any physical evidence they may have.

First they have to go through the hard drives, which I presume include pictures of the burial site where the bucket was found, and all the other material. Until each lawyer goes through all that, they wouldn't even know what tests to run or what they were trying to find. If any or all of the defendents left DNA at the burial site, I'm not sure more testing could disprove that.

I think it's too soon to be worried. The Judge was clear that discovery has to happen in the next two months, and the DA said they would have face-to-face meetings about certain evidence. But this case isn't going to be quick or easy, so we might as well expect a long (hot) summer as we wait for the next hearing in August.

 

[StillMindmatters]

Hi all, just checking in to see is there has been any news. And what do I find, that the wonderful DGC has posted info for me about the video!!!

Thanks so much DGC :seeya: , :yourock:

 

[shandram19]

Wrong post. So sorry.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I'm also wondering what the state could possibly have that leads them to the conclusion that abuse beyond what was necessary to cause death occurred.

Her skull could have had several hairline fractures where the ME knew she had been severely beaten repeatedly but the hairline fractures would not cause her immediate death or she may have had facial fractures/crush injuries from being repeatedly beaten. For all we know during the search warrant the first time they may have found a piece of tooth on ZAs property and were able to connect it to Holly. Also by using luminal in the bedroom (imo the crime scene) they may have been able to detect blood spatters and even brain matter. If so, they would know she was murdered viscously and much more than necessary to end the life of a small young woman.

Because the death penalty option didn't just start with this DA. Even the first DA who wasn't reelected said he was considering the DP even before Holly's remains were found. Beating her to death repeatedly would be a prolonged, heinous, and cruel way to murder someone. It seems from the evidence they seem to have she suffered tremendously before death.

I have always felt LE found something very important in the initial SWs that proved Holly had been murdered. There had to be something specific and compelling to convince her parents beyond all doubt that they had lost Holly forever on this earth. These were parents who refused for years to even believe the idea that Holly was dead.

Only when they searched his property/home and arrested ZA were they finally convinced. LE found something that even the Bobo's had to finally accept the worst news they never wanted to hear.

I feel they have a lot of evidence and have been very good about keeping most of it close to the vest.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Thanks.

Since we only heard about hard drive type data, I am concerned that the PA is not turning over any physical evidence like the "Bucket" and contents like the Skull to allow the DT to do their own analysis of any physical evidence they may have.

The state will never turnover the bucket to the defense. Evidence is always guarded by the state. Now what they will allow them to do is let a defense expert examine it in their presence. A pathologist for the defense will also be allowed to examine the skull and any other remains found with either the lead detective present or the Prosecutor or both in attendance. Its usually held in the local MEs office who did the original autopsy.

I think this case is going to set a record when it comes to how much discovery is going to be turned over. Wasn't it back in 2011 or 12 that the TBI said they had amassed over 27K pages of documents during the investigation up until that time?

But in time the physical evidence will be seen by the DT and their experts. Things seem to be happening quickly now with the new Prosecutor onboard. She did say she would be turning over discovery (more) by the end of this week. So it seems she has all of her ducks in a row.

But since this is now death penalty cases all of the cases will slow way down. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the defense now tries to stall the cases. They usually do and will ask the Judge for continuances along the way.

I have never seen any death penalty trial come to pass in less than three years after the arrest and sometimes its four years. Heck in Arias' case it took 7-8 years to be finalized.

We will be waiting a very long time before Holly's family has a chance to see justice served. I am sure the new Prosecutor has told them about the delays expected.

IMO

 

[SteveS]

But since this is now death penalty cases all of the cases will slow way down. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the defense now tries to stall the cases. They usually do and will ask the Judge for continuances along the way.

I have never seen any death penalty trial come to pass in less than three years after the arrest and sometimes its four years. Heck in Arias' case it took 7-8 years to be finalized.

To keep the record straight, the Arias case was "only" 4 1/2 years from arrest to trial (with extra time logged because they couldn't get to a final verdict on sentencing in a relatively-timely manner). Still underscores your point that once a case becomes a DP case (as this one just did) things tend to move at a snail's pace.

 

[Mr. Noatak]

My opinions only, no facts here:

It seems probable that the various involved authorities have had at least a few, if not several formal interviews with each of the three arrested main suspects. When the authorities possess incontrovertible evidence (such as relevant DNA, relevant fingerprints, etc.), they always lay that evidence out in the interview room to elicit a confession on-the-spot. There is nothing coy or mysterious about the strategy or motive of the cops in the 'room'; they want a confession. Since none of the three suspects has plead guilty yet, even when now facing the death penalty, I would guess that incontrovertible evidence was NOT presented to these suspects during their respective interviews (they still believe that they can win in court). Looking back in time, I would presume that fellow Tennessean Paul House also refused to plead guilty, for his own particular reasons- but without immediate success! The Gussie Vann case is also interesting for Tennessee crime fans.

As for terabytes of evidence; sometimes a very rich man opens his giant four-car garage door to his mansion and all that comes out is his three-year old son on a tricycle.

When the Prosecution's evidence is made semi-public (hopefully through Discovery by the Prosecution to the Defense); only then will I know what the heck is actually going on here. In the meantime, I keep researching this fascinating case from the very beginning, out of bad? habits. And that includes completing my Part IV Chapter in the Holly Bobo case- The Cell Phone Evidence.

I honestly am flabbergasted that none of the 3 arrested suspects has plead guilty to lesser charges and ratted on their associates by this late point in time. It makes me scratch my head in wonder and confusion.

Sleuth On!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

My opinions only, no facts here:

It seems probable that the various involved authorities have had at least a few, if not several formal interviews with each of the three arrested main suspects. When the authorities possess incontrovertible evidence (such as relevant DNA, relevant fingerprints, etc.), they always lay that evidence out in the interview room to elicit a confession on-the-spot. There is nothing coy or mysterious about the strategy or motive of the cops in the 'room'; they want a confession. Since none of the three suspects has plead guilty yet, even when now facing the death penalty, I would guess that incontrovertible evidence was NOT presented to these suspects during their respective interviews (they still believe that they can win in court). Looking back in time, I would presume that fellow Tennessean Paul House also refused to plead guilty, for his own particular reasons- but without immediate success! The Gussie Vann case is also interesting for Tennessee crime fans.

As for terabytes of evidence; sometimes a very rich man opens his giant four-car garage door to his mansion and all that comes out is his three-year old son on a tricycle.

When the Prosecution's evidence is made semi-public (hopefully through Discovery by the Prosecution to the Defense); only then will I know what the heck is actually going on here. In the meantime, I keep researching this fascinating case from the very beginning, out of bad? habits. And that includes completing my Part IV Chapter in the Holly Bobo case- The Cell Phone Evidence.

I honestly am flabbergasted that none of the 3 arrested suspects has plead guilty to lesser charges and ratted on their associates by this late point in time. It makes me scratch my head in wonder and confusion.

Sleuth On!

Good morning Mr. Noatak!

I would be more flabbergasted if any plea deal had ever been offered by the state. There are just some cases that do not call for plea deals of any kind to be given. Imo, this case is one of them. This crime perpetrated on one small defenseless woman by a gang of criminals isn't the usual case we normally see. This one represents the epitome of evil. A plea deal must be accepted by the state and imo the state in this case has never had any intentions of pleading down any of these charges. That shows me that the state is totally convinced they have the evidence needed to prove each and every charge BARD. They don't need any of the three to testify to prove their case. IMO.

I don't think there are lessor degrees of involvement among the three equally charged. I fully feel the new Prosecutor feels the only just sentence for these three is death and she is going to make sure the jurors have that option to choose from.

I have shaken my head in amazement many times over the years when I have seen murderers like this standup in court and say 'Not Guilty.' But it is done time after time after time and once the trials comes forth my amazement even heightened more because the evidence against them was overwhelming as to their guilt and they had to know that all along.

I suspect a lot of these murderers go to trial simply because the state wouldn't accept any plea offer. I am talking about cases that are beyond what even society is willing to accept, like this one. And of course some think they are so smart that they can convince one lone wolf juror to be persuaded to their side. That is all I can think of because so many of these high profile murder cases do windup with trials being held.

Even Joe Duncan opted for a Federal trial (death penalty) and the DA had in their possession the vile sadistic horrific video tape he had made when raping, torturing Shasta, and Dylan for weeks and murdering little Dylan Greone.

But I suspect in this particular high profile murder case with multiple offenders it is going to trial because the state refused to parlay with the 'devil/s' so to speak. This case is so heinous and cruel the offenders really don't deserve to have a lessor sentence or reduced charges.

IMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

To keep the record straight, the Arias case was "only" 4 1/2 years from arrest to trial (with extra time logged because they couldn't get to a final verdict on sentencing in a relatively-timely manner). Still underscores your point that once a case becomes a DP case (as this one just did) things tend to move at a snail's pace.

Thank you. Even the guilty verdict took almost five years didn't it?

She was arrested on July 15, 2008 and found guilty on May 8, 2013 iirc.

I read about another death penalty case but his name slips my mind at the moment but it was 7 years before his trial finally happened.

In the Heinz Jr mass murder case is took four years.

ITA! We are going to be waiting a very long time before these cases progress to trial.

IMO

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Snippets from WKRN:

The state told Judge Creed McGinley they will be ready to turn over all discovery within seven days.

Nichols told the court that material shown in a TV news story last week has not been provided to her. Earlier in the hearing, the judge was upset about the report that showed otherwise not public documents.

“When you talk about the ultimate punishment there is a heightened sense of due process,” Judge McGinley said.


Link: http://wkrn.com/2015/06/03/3-men-charged-with-murder-in-bobo-case-to-appear-in-court-wednesday/


BBM: Oh, I hope so ... and I wish they would turn it over to "us" as well ... :hilarious: !

BBM

Me, too! ::thumb:

And.... Thank you, Dog Gone and Queenie, and all of you who have kept us updated on the court proceedings!

:tyou: :tyou: :tyou:

 

[ThoughtFox]

I agree that plea deals for these three were never going to happen due to the evidence, which seems voluminous.

But there might be others who know them in or out of jail who are getting some type of deal for telling what they've heard, seen, know, etc. It could even be family members who might testify against them - who knows! I'm sure the TBI and DA have leaned on everyone and anyone who had anything to do with these guys, and since they are career criminals they will surely have people who want to rat them out.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

The "Justice for Holly" section of the HB Case Archive is updated:

http://s296.photobucket.com/user/cr...ly Bobo -TN-/Justice for Holly?sort=6&page=1

Thanks, Amanda! :tyou:

Do you have the detailed 4 Terabytes of Evidence included in the photobucket, too? :giggle:

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I agree that plea deals for these three were never going to happen due to the evidence, which seems voluminous.

But there might be others who know them in or out of jail who are getting some type of deal for telling what they've heard, seen, know, etc. It could even be family members who might testify against them - who knows! I'm sure the TBI and DA have leaned on everyone and anyone who had anything to do with these guys, and since they are career criminals they will surely have people who want to rat them out.

I do agree with this 100%. There certainly may be others further down the food chain who will be given some type of plea deal or even an immunity deal to testify for the state.

IMO

 

[StillMindmatters]

Her skull could have had several hairline fractures where the ME knew she had been severely beaten repeatedly but the hairline fractures would not cause her immediate death or she may have had facial fractures/crush injuries from being repeatedly beaten. For all we know during the search warrant the first time they may have found a piece of tooth on ZAs property and were able to connect it to Holly. Also by using luminal in the bedroom (imo the crime scene) they may have been able to detect blood spatters and even brain matter. If so, they would know she was murdered viscously and much more than necessary to end the life of a small young woman.

Because the death penalty option didn't just start with this DA. Even the first DA who wasn't reelected said he was considering the DP even before Holly's remains were found. Beating her to death repeatedly would be a prolonged, heinous, and cruel way to murder someone. It seems from the evidence they seem to have she suffered tremendously before death.

I have always felt LE found something very important in the initial SWs that proved Holly had been murdered. There had to be something specific and compelling to convince her parents beyond all doubt that they had lost Holly forever on this earth. These were parents who refused for years to even believe the idea that Holly was dead.

Only when they searched his property/home and arrested ZA were they finally convinced. LE found something that even the Bobo's had to finally accept the worst news they never wanted to hear.

I feel they have a lot of evidence and have been very good about keeping most of it close to the vest.

IMO

:goodpost: Ocean! Thanks for the info and insight.

BBM1--I had suspected that what happened to Holly was going to be horrific, particularly in light of the fact the suspects were Meth users--chronic Meth users prone to criminality have a well documented history of engaging in sadistic and violent crimes against their victims. But that is so much worse than I have considered :tears: , if only half of your suppositions are true I sincerely hope that the Bobo family has a strong support system when it comes time for the trial because it is going to be painfully brutal for them.

BBM2--I did not know that it was after the search warrant that the Bobo's acknowledged that Holly was gone--I knew it was before her remains were discovered. I remember the family being very staunch in their belief and hope that Holly was still alive despite so much time passing and even after arrests were first made.

In light of that fact, this is very significant and I tend to agree that you are probably spot on about there being something found that is undeniably linked to Holly having been at that house.

 

[Hatfield]

My opinions only, no facts here:

It seems probable that the various involved authorities have had at least a few, if not several formal interviews with each of the three arrested main suspects. When the authorities possess incontrovertible evidence (such as relevant DNA, relevant fingerprints, etc.), they always lay that evidence out in the interview room to elicit a confession on-the-spot. There is nothing coy or mysterious about the strategy or motive of the cops in the 'room'; they want a confession. Since none of the three suspects has plead guilty yet, even when now facing the death penalty, I would guess that incontrovertible evidence was NOT presented to these suspects during their respective interviews (they still believe that they can win in court). Looking back in time, I would presume that fellow Tennessean Paul House also refused to plead guilty, for his own particular reasons- but without immediate success! The Gussie Vann case is also interesting for Tennessee crime fans.

As for terabytes of evidence; sometimes a very rich man opens his giant four-car garage door to his mansion and all that comes out is his three-year old son on a tricycle.

When the Prosecution's evidence is made semi-public (hopefully through Discovery by the Prosecution to the Defense); only then will I know what the heck is actually going on here. In the meantime, I keep researching this fascinating case from the very beginning, out of bad? habits. And that includes completing my Part IV Chapter in the Holly Bobo case- The Cell Phone Evidence.

I honestly am flabbergasted that none of the 3 arrested suspects has plead guilty to lesser charges and ratted on their associates by this late point in time. It makes me scratch my head in wonder and confusion.

Sleuth On!

Re BBM

JMO
I agree with others that at this point no plea deals for the 3 defendents will be offered.

But I think we kind of had 2 related "deals" that have fallen apart.

The 1st was the deal made with the person who is now dead in Florida. That deal was related to this case and then LE was attempting to take back the deal. The person was objecting to LE trying to go back on the deal and that was where it stood when he ended up dead.

The 2nd is JMO and I think there may have been some kind of deal or bargain being made with DA. Im trying to remember the circurmstances that went on where it ended with ZA threatening him with words about not talking anymore.

I dont think anything official was ever released in the news but I tend to think that some sort of bargain was made with him originally. Because if I remember right, he was facing charges and I think he ended up only getting charged originally with something lesser than he would have gotten had he not confessed to seeing Holly after she went missing or something along those lines.

The reason I think this is because I dont see why he would have begun talking about things unless he was offered something. Maybe it was just slick LE work and they tricked him or something. The aftermath of it was ZA threatening him to stop talking otherwise he would end up in the hole beside Holly.

Since all of that had gone on, the charges against DA got changed to the now very serious final charges like the others. So if there was some kind of original bargain with him about testifying against anyone, then that has fell apart too by now.

It will be interesting to see if DA attorney begins to take any kind of actions differently than the other 2 defendents. I have a feeling he thought he had some kind of deal and it has fallen apart.

I may be totally wrong about all this too.

 

[Tugela]

I agree that plea deals for these three were never going to happen due to the evidence, which seems voluminous.

But there might be others who know them in or out of jail who are getting some type of deal for telling what they've heard, seen, know, etc. It could even be family members who might testify against them - who knows! I'm sure the TBI and DA have leaned on everyone and anyone who had anything to do with these guys, and since they are career criminals they will surely have people who want to rat them out.

The "voluminous" evidence is the case file, almost all of which is completely irrelevant to the charges at hand.

I don't think they have much evidence outside of statements made by DA and a whole lot of guessing.

Normally they would have to offer a plea deal to someone to get them to testify against the others under those circumstances, but the recent events suggest that no one is going to do that. So....

 

[Tugela]

:goodpost: Ocean! Thanks for the info and insight.

BBM1--I had suspected that what happened to Holly was going to be horrific, particularly in light of the fact the suspects were Meth users--chronic Meth users prone to criminality have a well documented history of engaging in sadistic and violent crimes against their victims. But that is so much worse than I have considered :tears: , if only half of your suppositions are true I sincerely hope that the Bobo family has a strong support system when it comes time for the trial because it is going to be painfully brutal for them.

BBM2--I did not know that it was after the search warrant that the Bobo's acknowledged that Holly was gone--I knew it was before her remains were discovered. I remember the family being very staunch in their belief and hope that Holly was still alive despite so much time passing and even after arrests were first made.

In light of that fact, this is very significant and I tend to agree that you are probably spot on about there being something found that is undeniably linked to Holly having been at that house.

She is just speculating. If they had anything like that they wouldn't be playing games trying to stall handing over discovery in the way they have been doing. It would be an open and shut case, so there would be no point in endangering it with potential legal technicalities. IMO, I don't think there is much or even any forensic evidence implicating the accused.

 

[Chainsaw385]

She is just speculating. If they had anything like that they wouldn't be playing games trying to stall handing over discovery in the way they have been doing. It would be an open and shut case, so there would be no point in endangering it with potential legal technicalities. IMO, I don't think there is much or even any forensic evidence implicating the accused.

You do realize you just pointed out her post was "speculation"....and then followed with "speculation" of your own
That is what I myself would call "hypocrisy"

 

[katydid23]

Why would the DA seek the Death Penalty if they did not have a lot of solid evidence? Usually they only go for the DP if it is rock solid, imo.