NY - Search for escaped convicted killers, David Sweat & Richard Matt, Dannemora #1

[Carrington]

I think someone broke in to break them out. Social media will play a big part in the whys and hows as soon as they are captured.
IMO

 

[swimminglemming]

"The two prisoners were in the "honor block" of the prison, meaning they were given certain liberties for good behavior"

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/08/us/new-york-prison-break/

 

[Marah]

Was the hole in the wall behind both beds? They didn't share a cell, did they?

 

[AntsMarching 81]

I just saw something circulating on Facebook that someone saw two men resembling them asking for directions to the interstate around Frederick St. in Auburn. They were driving a black Taurus, supposedly.

I have no knowledge of that area, but I thought I'd share... Sounds fishy, though.

 

[dotr]

"The two prisoners were in the "honor block" of the prison, meaning they were given certain liberties for good behavior"

http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/08/us/new-york-prison-break/

Welcome to Ws swimminglemming!

:welcome:

 

[Snoopster]

I think someone broke in to break them out. Social media will play a big part in the whys and hows as soon as they are captured.
IMO

Interesting thought! And, because the cuts in the pipe looked professionally done, then I'd be looking for a tradesperson.

IF someone tried to break in, they would have to get into the sewer system. I recall reading that the chain/lock on the manhole cover was cut through. I presume this chain is on the underground side of the manhole cover. Who would have access to the sewer system? Or would they have entered the system "further upstream" in the escape route to prepare it for the escapees?

OK, I'm just babbling now. Best if I quit here. ;/
:jail:

 

[Snoopster]

Good points.

I first immediately thought #1 Canada but after reading your post I am not so sure.

Here is the Main thing IMO. They have to find a place to lay low for awhile.

If they got a good jump on LE then Canada may have been their choice but I think only if they had a ride lined up. They would have been across the border before anyone knew to watch the borders. u

I think I would rule out #3 Mexico because why try to travel so far and risk the distance.

So I think #2 for Matts friends may have been where they headed although the inmates would also know the heat would be around their relatives so not sure they would head to where the heat is.

So I do think I am back to #1 just because it would take the heat off of them. They would know that US is probably more interesting in finding them than Canada would be solely because its US inmates and so I think they would think to get out of US may be a good idea.

They would have had to have a ride lined up I would think. One simple way to do that is if someone parked a car in advance at like a motel or airport lot and then hid key under the floor mat and just mailed them a letter or during a visit explained where it was.

This is crazy story.

Great thoughts. Thanks! :goodpost:

 

[STANDREID]

If they are smart, they will have split up by now.

 

[WI1987]

Im not sure if I should be surprised or not, Cuomo has made huge cuts to the NYSDOC budget since taking office. Many posts, especially towers & perimeter patrols now go unmanned on a regular basis. I hate to say it but I think they had help both on the outside as well from a crooked guard or civilian employee.

They had as much as a 7 hour headstart ... they could literally be anywhere. Hopefully they catch these guys soon.

 

[dotr]

Complete graphics detailing escape.

http://time.com/3913559/prison-escape-new-york-richard-matt-david-sweat-graphic/

"Check out the details of a daring escape
Through the walls. Onto the catwalk. Into the pipes. Out of a manhole.

The weekend escape by convicted murderers Richard Matt and David Sweat was intricate and daring. Many questions remained unanswered Monday as a manhunt continued and investigators focused on whether the two men had help from the inside.

Here’s how they actually did it."

 

[Bravo]

I hope so too. Not sure how they would get into Canada without a passport or enhanced Drivers License which is permitted for land crossing. I travel to Michigan a lot. I have 4 ways to enter. Bridge, Tunnel, and 2 locations of ferry. I have never not been asked for my passport or would even try without. Not to say these guys could have had something arranged prior. I know we had discussion on another case and folks were telling me they could cross without proper I.D. Not doubting them but it has never been my experience crossing into the U.S. as a Canadian and coming back into my country. Not same border crossings. In fact recently doing a ferry crossing I was asked for my passport for the very first time on the ferry. Ever. So I politely asked why and I had no probs producing just curious. Man on the ferry said they had a crossing with Illegals. It resulted in the ferry company being fined. Once they landed on land they were landed immigrants. Ferry crossings tended to be more relaxed. Never about Passport in my experience but coming back as a Canadian shopping in the U.S. they tend not to drag you in to pay duty.

 

[Hippononymous]

More on vicious Matt:

But his rap sheet goes back further than that: Matt was sentenced to 2-4 years for a 1989 rape in Buffalo and stabbing a nurse in 1991. He served time for those crimes until 1997, the same year he abducted and killed Rickerson.

http://time.com/3912501/new-york-prison-escape-clinton-correctional-facility/


Matt, who was in his 30s at the time, was well known to North Tonawanda police, City of Tonawanda police and the FBI. He had a record of felony convictions, including an assault on a woman.

He was also a central figure in a bizarre January 1992 case involving David Telstar, a prominent California man who was with Matt in the Erie County Holding Center.

FBI agents said Telstar paid to have Matt bailed out of the jail and offered him $100,000 to travel to Los Angeles and murder four people, including Telstar’s socialite wife and a Los Angeles police official. Instead of performing the murders, Matt went to police and reported the offer from Telstar. Matt then became the prime witness against Telstar, who was sentenced to five years in federal prison.

http://www.buffalonews.com/city-reg...ure-killer-escapes-from-state-prison-20150606

Mods, how much can be discussed about this case? e.g. the whereabouts of David Telstar?

 

[gracehatter]

I travel to Michigan a lot. I have 4 ways to enter. Bridge, Tunnel, and 2 locations of ferry. I have never not been asked for my passport or would even try without. Not to say these guys could have had something arranged prior. I know we had discussion on another case and folks were telling me they could cross without proper I.D. Not doubting them but it has never been my experience crossing into the U.S. as a Canadian and coming back into my country.

I've lived in Michigan pretty much all my life and have traveled extensively into Canada by every available route. I cannot think of one time when I was not asked to produce ID and since the entry requirements changed, my passport. I'm with Bravo on this one.

 

[BirdycatNY]

I hope so too. Not sure how they would get into Canada without a passport or enhanced Drivers License which is permitted for land crossing. I travel to Michigan a lot. I have 4 ways to enter. Bridge, Tunnel, and 2 locations of ferry. I have never not been asked for my passport or would even try without. Not to say these guys could have had something arranged prior. I know we had discussion on another case and folks were telling me they could cross without proper I.D. Not doubting them but it has never been my experience crossing into the U.S. as a Canadian and coming back into my country. Not same border crossings. In fact recently doing a ferry crossing I was asked for my passport for the very first time on the ferry. Ever. So I politely asked why and I had no probs producing just curious. Man on the ferry said they had a crossing with Illegals. It resulted in the ferry company being fined. Once they landed on land they were landed immigrants. Ferry crossings tended to be more relaxed. Never about Passport in my experience but coming back as a Canadian shopping in the U.S. they tend not to drag you in to pay duty.

U.S./Canadian border has gotten stricter with I.D.s/passports since 9/11. Prior to that, driving to Toronto-NYS was not terribly strict from what I remember. I was thinking may be Sweat/Matt were able to get fake passports, if they planned escape far in advance. Idk, how difficult it would be to get fake passports through border or if possible. Are any country passports easier going through Canada? Investigators need to find and question individuals who may have helped them. Also, if Sweat/Matt are hiding in mountains, does LE have technology to spot "heat" from person (like the Boston bomber Tsaranev), idk? I bet the two are in more populated area or with someone who is hiding them out, and they may have separated early on. Jmo/

 

[wondering?]

I've lived in Michigan pretty much all my life and have traveled extensively into Canada by every available route. I cannot think of one time when I was not asked to produce ID and since the entry requirements changed, my passport. I'm with Bravo on this one.

We are a very rural area up here, there are paths, dirt roads etc that lead into Canada, sometimes people are caught trying to choose this route but certainly not always.
There are ways other than going through Border checkpoints.
I would think that they would have had to have some help with this but do they have Internet access to find this info?

This has everyone up here on alert, would they lay low and stay around for awhile?
Just my opinion, but I think they had their way out all planned, after all it took quite some time to plan this and execute the plan.

And, the manhole would be for water overflow or for repairs to pipes etc.
I'll bet the residents of Dannemora did not know where this manhole cover led to, for Goodness Sakes, seems that it should have been welded shut from the outside and a camera aimed at it 24/7.

A woman employee involved? Or just named? She is in protective custody, it is reported.

I see a movie in the future and pray that these two are found soon, everyone within miles of the prison are on edge, understandably!!

 

[Snoopster]

In the past LE was concerned about Matt's focus on escaping. Quote from a 2011 article:

Sperrazza said she has ordered the [stun] belt used only twice in her 11-year County Court tenure. Her decision to make Matt wear it came after a conference with Matt's attorneys and prosecutors in her chambers.

Monday, prosecutors Louis A. Haremski and Joseph M. Mordino testified that they received reports from the County Jail that Matt planned to escape and was willing to kill to do it.

http://www.buffalonews.com/Security_issues_aired_in_hearing_on_new_murder_trial.html

 

[WI1987]

There are many unofficial crossings along the US-Canada border and IIRC there are several official ports of entry that are unmanned during certain hours ... especially on the Canadian side as CBSA is known to be rather lax.

 

[dotr]

Could fluorescent rope have been strung along the tunnel from one end to the other ahead of time. imo?



http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/08/us/prison-escape-what-we-know/
rbbm.
"The escape

What we know: After cutting through the steel walls of their cells, the two followed a catwalk "down an elaborate maze of pipes into tunnels and exited a series of tunnels at the manhole cover," the governor said.

What we don't know: How Matt and Sweat could have known the layout of the dark, complex labyrinth in the bowels of the prison well enough to make their way out."

snip>


"What we don't know: What the two men will do next.

"Because they're stone-cold killers, you would expect them to stop at nothing to get out of the prison and to maintain their freedom once they are out," CNN law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes said.

"That means they could have invaded one of the local homes ... killed the people, stole their car, and driven halfway across the United States by the time (authorities) even know they were gone. So the police are going to have to check for the well being of every resident in the town."

 

[Snoopster]

From another older article about Matt...

Niagara County corrections officers have taken no chances with Matt since he arrived in the county jail Jan. 24, 2007, after finishing his sentence for the Mexico killing. They also were aware that Matt had broken out of the Erie County jail in Alden in June 1986 and was on the lam for four days before being recaptured.

Matt's front teeth are metal because they were knocked out by guards who beat him while he was in prison in Matamoros, Mexico, said Assistant Public Defender Matthew P. Pynn, one of his defense attorneys.

Matt killed a man in a fight outside a Mexican bar in 1998, shortly after he fled Western New York to avoid arrest in the Rickerson case.

http://www.buffalonews.com/Killer_took_tortured_trail_in_savage_life.html

I guess he didn't really enjoy his time in Mexico!! I wonder if he still has the metal teeth. They would stand out.

 

[GinaSeikwa]

There are many unofficial crossings along the US-Canada border and IIRC there are several official ports of entry that are unmanned during certain hours ... especially on the Canadian side as CBSA is known to be rather lax.

I would say this is true of marine crossings as well. Matt's from North Tonawanda on Lake Ontario. He may be familiar with the lake crossing. T.O is a big big urban place to disappear into.