VA - Freshman daughter, mom 'good time drop off' outrages VA university

It may be true that a DA would not pursue a case or a jury would not convict without a victim's support.

But that doesn't mean a crime wasn't committed or that a person wasn't harmed. Our justice system doesn't always work for victims. It's set up to give the accused more rights than their alleged victims.

We have Blackstone's formulation.

"It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer"


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackstone's_formulation

Right. Like I said, it's defined as a rape or not on several different levels. The victim attitude does not change the actual facts vs. the law, whether you had sex with an unconscious person who was able to consent or not and whether it's a crime according to the legal definition. But since rape is a crime that has to do with the victim's consent, what the victim has to say about his or her consent afterward and whether he or she defines it as a rape or not, certainly often changes the outcome in the eyes of the police, the legal system or how the world views what happened.
 
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Even if a person couldn't give legal consent because they were unconscious and another person has sexual relations with them, it's not rape if the unconscious person later say's it's all okay. That's what I'm getting from some of these posts.

That means a person doesn't always need consent to have sex with a person. As long as afterwards the two individuals are on the same page everything is fine.

It kind of blurs what legal consent really is if you ask me. I was thinking that anyone who has sexual contact with an unconscious person is clearly guilty of a crime. It made sense.

Now, I'm not so sure. You would have to look at why the unconscious person said it was all okay. Are they afraid of what would happen if they say they were raped? Does the person who did the act on the unconscious person have power over the other person financially? Are they afraid the accused would leave them? Things like that could make a person deny that they where a victim when they really are one.

Or, perhaps they really don't care about someone have sexual contact with them while they are unconscious.

JMO


In Earl's case, also the public nature of the crime I think... He's a bit of a special case in that often rape happens in more private setting, there aren't as many witnesses, the police doesn't get there immediately to catch you in the act and verify that you were in fact unconscious, and the tabloids aren't there to interview you straight after you step out of the police station. Daily Mail even published blurred photos of the event taking place... Isn't it usually considered bad journalistic form to publish photos of rape victims during the act?

So, let's say Earl wakes up with a headache, finds himself in the police station, gets confronted with the photos, questioned by the police while still hungover, memories hazy, tries to blurrily remember what happened, then there's a reporter, random shoppers knew he had been raped before he had any idea, add to that the embarrassment of having been so sloshed that you lost all control and chose an embarrassingly public place for sex (if it was consensual to begin with like Earl reports)...


That must have been one nasty way to wake up from a fun day out and Earl must have been under a lot of pressure.

Many rape victims have more time and privacy to process what happened and to decide if they want to define what happened as rape and if they want to report it to the police. But Earl was thrust into it with few choices, the police was already there when he woke up.

So he might be asserting himself what little dignity he has left, trying to define himself as "not a rape victim", trying to minimise and get rid of the reporter with the videocamera in his face, trying to protect his girlfriend because he loves her or because they have a lot of fun, spontaneous, very impaired sex regularly or because he just wants to be left alone and forget it ever happened or....

If it happened in his own bedroom he'd have had the choice of reporting it to the police or deciding nothing bad happened, I would have consented anyway, heck I started it before falling asleep, let's move on, I don't want the hassle.

Now with cameras, he had no choice not to let the police know and deal with it on his own terms. But does he still have some rights as a victim to define what happened, assert that he is not a victim and does not want punishment for the girlfriend?
 
Now with cameras, he had no choice not to let the police know and deal with it on his own terms. But does he still have some rights as a victim to define what happened, assert that he is not a victim and does not want punishment for the girlfriend?

SBM

That's a good question. Like I said in a previous post, often victims of domestic violence will not say that their significant other harmed them when they really did.

I think that a crime of sexual assault can happen to a person who is unconscious whether they admit it or not.

The act itself is a crime. The victim doesn't get to decide if a crime occurred. The law does. In my opinion, no consent means a crime occurred.

JMO.
 
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Even if a person couldn't give legal consent because they were unconscious and another person has sexual relations with them, it's not rape if the unconscious person later say's it's all okay. That's what I'm getting from some of these posts.

That means a person doesn't always need consent to have sex with a person. As long as afterwards the two individuals are on the same page everything is fine.

It kind of blurs what legal consent really is if you ask me. I was thinking that anyone who has sexual contact with an unconscious person is clearly guilty of a crime. It made sense.

Now, I'm not so sure. You would have to look at why the unconscious person said it was all okay. Are they afraid of what would happen if they say they were raped? Does the person who did the act on the unconscious person have power over the other person financially? Are they afraid the accused would leave them? Things like that could make a person deny that they where a victim when they really are one.

Or, perhaps they really don't care about someone have sexual contact with them while they are unconscious.

JMO

BBM

You bring up some very good points, Ranch.

If a male is sexually assaulted, either by a woman or by another man, he risks being publicly emasculated (which is akin to being neutered) if he reports it to the police and chooses to press charges.

Masculine sexual power, and the ability to wield that power, is a weapon that males have used against females for thousands of years. I imagine it's a huge blow to the male ego whenever that power is usurped by another person. I imagine that a male feels extreme shame when his sexual autonomy is violated, similar to how a king must feel when he is conquered by someone who has no right to the throne.

I think this socio-historical dynamic may make it extremely psychologically difficult for a male to report sexual assault.

I personally believe that until and unless genuine sexual and gender equality is achieved, sexual assault will continue to be used as a weapon against others, male and female alike.

Sexual autonomy is not the sole province of males. Sexual autonomy belongs to females, as well.

Despite thousands of years of male domination, females possess power over their own bodies, just as males possess power over their own bodies.
 
But THEY weren't 'having sex.' He was unconscious. So she was raping him. I still do not understand why everyone is so hesitant to call it that.

You and I both know that if I came and told you that an unconscious woman was lying in the street and her boyfriend was on top of her, broad daylight, publicly having sex with her---You have to admit that you would call that RAPE---cut and dry, no doubt about it. Public sex with an unconscious woman====RAPE. No one would question if it was consensual. In fact, anyone who dared call it consensual would be called insulting and called out for even questioning it. OBVIOUSLY an unconscious woman cannot give her consent.

So it boggles my mind that everyone said the opposite about this case. They gave the rapist a pass and said it was not rape because the unconscious victim 'wanted it.' :no:

Do you believe it was rape?
 
Let me say this. Drunks are temporarily insane due to the gross amount of drinking. So if 2 drunks stumble across a path or oath together that leads to a disaster; Would clearly be hard to see who was truly and premeditatedly at fault.

When people are drinking without being purposely drugged on the side; They still consent to things that they will regret in the morning.

But if both parties were on the same level. Then it's impossible without proof to justify who actually didn't consent.

So who do you sue? To tell you the truth; without proof. No one. Because both parties were too drunk to remember anything while in a temporary insane mindset.

Now let's say 2 drunks in 2 different cars both caused an accident that killed a sober person in a 3rd vehicle.

Well guess what. Both drunks that drove separate vehicles would be charged with the same crime regardless of the facts unless video proved which drunk one was originally at fault.

So just because the drunk girl recants while the drunk guy doesn't remember. Shouldn't state that the drunk girl should be 100% believable when everything took place while both parties were feeling each other but becoming incoherent at the same time.

Jmo.

In cases like this. More proof should be needed. Or any drunk party can wake up the next morning and recant anything. Whether male or female. Jmo.
 
Men have been raping women for thousands of years.

Men have been dominating women sexually, politically, financially, and physically for thousands of years. It's only in recent years that females have begun to unapologetically reclaim their sexual, political, financial, and physical power.

The power structure has been out of balance for thousands of years. I won't apologize for defending a female rape victim.

If a male rape victim wishes to risk the same ridicule and shame that female rape victims have been enduring for thousands of years, then I'll defend him - just as I have and will continue to defend female rape victims.
 
Men have been raping women for thousands of years.

Men have been dominating women sexually, politically, financially, and physically for thousands of years. It's only in recent years that females have begun to unapologetically reclaim their sexual, political, financial, and physical power.

The power structure has been out of balance for thousands of years. I won't apologize for defending a female rape victim.

If a male rape victim wishes to risk the same ridicule and shame that female rape victims have been enduring for thousands of years, then I'll defend him - just as I have and will continue to defend female rape victims.

Great. Understandable.

But hopefully your son will never have to convince you that he is innocent one day due to him and a girl getting plastered and having consensual.
 
Let me say this. Drunks are temporarily insane due to the gross amount of drinking. So if 2 drunks stumble across a path or oath together that leads to a disaster; Would clearly be hard to see who was truly and premeditatedly at fault.

When people are drinking without being purposely drugged on the side; They still consent to things that they will regret in the morning.

But if both parties were on the same level. Then it's impossible without proof to justify who actually didn't consent.

So who do you sue? To tell you the truth; without proof. No one. Because both parties were too drunk to remember anything while in a temporary insane mindset.

Now let's say 2 drunks in 2 different cars both caused an accident that killed a sober person in a 3rd vehicle.

Well guess what. Both drunks that drove separate vehicles would be charged with the same crime regardless of the facts unless video proved which drunk one was originally at fault.

So just because the drunk girl recants while the drunk guy doesn't remember. Shouldn't state that the drunk girl should be 100% believable when everything took place while both parties were feeling each other but becoming incoherent at the same time.

Jmo.

In cases like this. More proof should be needed. Or any drunk party can wake up the next morning and recant anything. Whether male or female. Jmo.
The law says otherwise.

Everything the drunk girl says often isn't automatically believed, which is the very point many of us are trying to make. It's exactly why so few cases are successfully prosecuted. A drunk girl, now sober, can say whatever she likes but will the police believe her? Will the prosecutor bring charges against her rapist? Will it go to trial? Will a jury believe her? Will a judge err on a minimum sentence assuming the jury does? Will she withstand the heightened scrutiny afforded many rape victims? What was she wearing? Was she in a prior relationship with her rapist? Had she been voluntarily impaired? Did she put herself in a 'risky' situation? Does she have the reputation of a *advertiser censored*? Has she ever lied to anyone before, about anything?

Statistically, it's much more likely she doesn't report her rape at all. Or, if she does, that it never makes it to trial because she was drunk and a lot of people feel if a rape victim has been drinking they're at least partially responsible for their own rape. Including people working within the criminal justice system who ultimately decide the fate of her case.

Great. Understandable.

But hopefully your son will never have to convince you that he is innocent one day due to him and a girl getting plastered and having consensual.

I just don't understand why this is being used as justification for victim blaming. I don't get it. As I said on the Bill Cosby thread, one can support a victim (or at the absolute least, not undermine said victim) without demonizing an alleged perpetrator. Supporting and validating a victim - and more importantly ensuring they get access to resources - shouldn't necessitate a conviction first. In the same vein, affording a victim that support isn't akin to a mandatory life sentence for the alleged rapist without proof either.

Just because some 'victims' have lied about being victims shouldn't mean we disbelieve all who claim victimization as a rule.
 
Everyone, please just teach your sons and daughters. Have that conversation with them about consent.

These conversations didn't happen in my era when I was growing up. Many men felt that it was perfectly acceptable to take advantage of a woman that was passed out or had previous consensual sexual relations with them. Or, maybe they were just talking and flirting with each other at some point and time. That doesn't mean either man or woman wanted to go further without consent.

I've seen it happen to both men and women that were asleep and thought they were in a safe place with friends where no one would harm them.

If your worried about your son or daughter, then TALK to them about healthy boundaries.
 
Lady Gaga has joined a powerful new project aiming to expose the rape crimes sweeping US college campuses by releasing a harrowing new music video showing four women being sexually assaulted.

Till It Happens To You begins with the disclaimer: 'The following contains graphic content that may be emotionally unsettling but reflects the reality of what is happening daily on college campuses.'

<snipped by me>

Till It Happens To You begins with the disclaimer: 'The following contains graphic content that may be emotionally unsettling but reflects the reality of what is happening daily on college campuses.'

The public service announcement ties in with upcoming documentary The Hunting Ground, which investigates universities covering up incidents of rape in order to 'protect their brand'.

Till It Happens To You will feature on the film's soundtrack.

The new video - which Gaga tweeted to her over 50 million followers Thursday night - shows four women being raped by male students, all in different situations.

BBM For me, watching this video has been highly upsetting. I'm glad LG has taken this topic on and produced such a graphic video. I'd be interested to see the documentary which was released last February.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...owing-female-students-sexually-assaulted.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/27/m...ntary-a-searing-look-at-campus-rape.html?_r=1
 
Undeniably Massive Study Confirms Campus Rape Is an Undeniable, Massive Problem

This morning, the Association of American Universities published a huge research study on sexual assault and misconduct on college campuses. Over 150,000 students at 27 institutions of higher education participated in the web survey, which, among many other things, seems to corroborate the often-cited (and often-misconstrued) "1 in 5" statistic, which says that 1 in 5 women will experience sexual assault in college. The percentage of female undergraduate participants in the AAU study who report "sexual contact involving physical force or incapacitation since enrolling in the college" is 23.1 percent.

"There's a cultural obsession in this country to pick apart the 1-in 5 statistic," said Dana Bolger over email. Bolger is the co-founder of the anti–campus sexual assault organization Know Your IX. "No number of studies, all confirming the 1-in-5, will ever be good enough for a particular segment of the American population, which insists that women lie, that justice is readily attainable, and that rape is an anomaly rather than an epidemic."

Link to the report pdf:

Report on the AAU Campus Climate Survey on
Sexual Assault and Sexual Misconduct
 
Rape Culture is a ‘Panic Where Paranoia, Censorship, and False Accusations Flourish’

http://time.com/100091/campus-sexual-assault-christina-hoff-sommers/
Today’s college rape panic is an eerie recapitulation of the daycare abuse panic. Just as the mythical “50,000 abducted children” fueled paranoia about child safety in the 1980s, so today’s hysteria is incited by the constantly repeated, equally fictitious “one-in-five women on campus is a victim of rape”—which even President Obama has embraced.

The one-in-five number is derived from surveys where biased samples of respondents are asked an artful combination of straightforward and leading questions, reminiscent of the conclusory interviews behind the daycare agitation. A much-cited CDC study, for example, first tells respondents: “Please remember that even if someone uses alcohol or drugs, what happens to them is not their fault.” Then it asks: “When you were drunk, high, drugged, or passed out and unable to consent, how many people ever had vaginal sex with you.” (Emphasis mine.) The CDC counted all such sexual encounters as rapes.
 
Excellent example of the cultural obsession in this country to pick apart the 1-in 5 statistic.

Thank you.

Let me pick it apart a little bit: 23.1% is actually closer to 1 in 4.

But aside from that -- let's imagine that in some way, the numbers are skewed somehow. Would 1 in 6 be at all acceptable to anyone here? Or 1 in 7? 1 in 8? The numbers aren't going to be that far off, anyhow.
 
[video=youtube;oQbei5JGiT8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQbei5JGiT8[/video]
 
That tea video is my new favorite thing right after the eff it meditation

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk
 
Very illuminating SPECIAL on Fox tonight. It says exactly what I have been trying to say here for months.


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/12/10/fox-news-reporting-truth-about-sex-and-college/


Fox News reporting: The truth about sex and college

"....This led to universities setting up their own court systems, in effect, to deal with what is elsewhere treated as a violent crime. However, unlike actual courts, many procedural safeguards were left out of the equation.

Students were now facing tribunals without the guidance of an attorney, without a chance to confront their accuser, without the ability to introduce relevant evidence and without other traditional elements of due process. In addition, these courts require the lowest standard of proof to find the accused responsible."

"So far these advocates have held the moral high ground in this debate, but some are starting to question if they've gone too far. Are colleges setting up star chambers that are more about politics than justice? Are schools even equipped to deal with this issue? And are legislatures rushing in to solve a problem that could use a little more debate?"



There are some shockingly UNFAIR cases shown here. In one case, where a high school valedictorian, straight A student, who had consensual drunken sex, was expelled from Occidental College, and prevented from going anywhere else because he was labeled a sex offender/rapist. And yet, the so called victim had texted him before she went voluntarily to his dorm room, and asked if he had a condom. Then when he said YES, she said I am on my way. And she never said no, she said YES, throughout the sex. And even afterwards, they had several cordial and sensitive talks, about wanting to be freinds, and it being awkward. But she went to some friends and they told her she was raped. They convinced her of it. It is so unfair, imo. This boys life was ruined and those girls do not care one bit.
 

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