Israel Keyes: General Discussion

[cgon4872]

I'm not able to make my own thread for some reason, so I figured this would be the next best place.

Keyes told the FBI that along with the Curriers, he killed a still unidentified couple sometime between July 2001 and 2005 in Washington state. I assumed that Keyes used his own vehicle to commit this crime, and stayed within the confines of the Western United states as well. I didn't include any cases that were obvious accidents or family abductions.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/h/hyatt_eugene.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/v/vollendroff_kami.html

Both went missing from Depoe Bay, Oregon on November 21, 2001. They were last seen in Boiler Bay state park, and as everyone knows, parks were one of Keyes' hunting grounds. Authorities assumed that the couple drowned, and there's no way to really disprove (or prove) this theory without a body. A few days after they went missing one of Hyatt's shoes was found. This always made me feel weird, since I've always associated that kind of stuff with abductions and not drownings. Also, I find it weird that they would both drown, yet neither of their bodies would be recovered.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/castro_guadalupe.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/a/arias_aqueda.html

Castro went missing with her three year old daughter from Longview, Washington on November 26, 2001. They were last seen by Gregario Arias Ibal, Castro's husband and Arias' father. The vehicle they were riding was later found abandoned in California, parked at the residence of one of Ibal's relatives. Family members of Castro's later received a phone call stating she was currently in Arizona and ill, but noting more ever came of it. In my opinion, it sounds like Ibal was responsible for their disappearances, but there doesn't seem to be any concrete proof. Either way, I think it's unlikely Keyes was responsible for their disappearances.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/murphy_kieran.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/murphy_ornaith.html

Kieran went missing from San Francisco, California on December 15, 2001 and Ornaith went missing from Oakland, California on December 16, 2001. They were husband and wife, and were in the process of getting a divorce at the time of their 2001 disappearances. Ornaith owned a boat, and someone matching Kieran's description was seem near the boat on the evening of his disappearance. That night, people in the area reported hearing loud banging sounds, although no one was sure if these sounds came from a gun. Ornaith was last heard from by her niece a day later. She has never been heard from again; her boat has never been located either. This case also seems unlikely to me, as it seems to be a murder-suicide in my opinion.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/r/russell_charles.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/n/nelson_catherine.html

They went missing from Phoenix, Arizona on February 2, 2002. They were planning on traveling to Tucson, Arizona so they could look at an advertised motor cycle. Neither of them have ever been heard from again, and investigators later learned that the advertisement placed was likely a ruse, since other two models of the motor cycle they were planning on seeing (2002 Ducati) were in Arizona at the time being. Investigators believe they met with foul play, and that whoever killed them was planning on robbing them. There is very little evidence to prove this theory however, and their disappearances remain unsolved.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/guillen_claudia_berenice.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/guillen_claudia_jareth.html

Claudia B. went missing with her two year old daughter, Claudia J. from Yuma, Arizona on November 24, 2004. They were last seen at a store in Yuma on the day of their disappearances, and the car they were using was later found abandoned in front of the same store. The car was later towed. Investigators believe foul play was involved in their disappearances, and reportedly have a person of interest in their cases. Claudia's boyfriend, Ricardo Salgado has a history of domestic violence and reportedly fled to Mexico after he was interviewed by the police. Seems unlikely Keyes was involved in this case in my opinion.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/brown_gary_oscar.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/j/johnson_michael_henry.html

Brown and Johnson were last seen somewhere in Los Angeles, California on December 2, 2004. Few details are available in their cases, so it's difficult to say whether or not Keyes was involved.
___

The only cases that really stick out to me here are those of Hyatt and Vollendroff, Russell and Nelson, and Brown and Johnson.

Hyatt and Vollendroff both went missing from a state park, and it would have been relatively easy for Keyes to gain control of two teenagers. Not to mention the fact that the drive from Depoe Bay, Oregon to Washington state would be a few hours at most. The fact that investigators believe they drowned kinda stops the investigation there though, unless some more proof is found to prove them otherwise.

Russell and Nelson seemingly went missing without a trace, and Keyes was reported as saying he waited from victims to "come to him". The thing that gets me is that Keyes claimed to have killed the couple in Washington state, and a drive from Arizona to Washington is approximately 24 hours (and that's if you take all of the major highways, tolls, etc. someone Keyes probably would have avoided.) He would have had to maintain control of two fully grown adults for about a day, ensuring they don't get loose while struggling to get free. Seems unlikely in my opinion.

I only included Brown and Johnson because there isn't enough evidence to go either way. Not to stereotype or offend anyone, but their disappearances could be gang or drug related, even though charley project makes no mention of either Brown or Johnson being involved in such activities. We also some back to the fact that Keyes would have had to drive all the way from California to Washington while maintaining control of two fully grown adults. Seems unlikely to me.

Any thoughts?

 

[shandram19]

I'm not able to make my own thread for some reason, so I figured this would be the next best place.

Keyes told the FBI that along with the Curriers, he killed a still unidentified couple sometime between July 2001 and 2005 in Washington state. I assumed that Keyes used his own vehicle to commit this crime, and stayed within the confines of the Western United states as well. I didn't include any cases that were obvious accidents or family abductions.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/h/hyatt_eugene.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/v/vollendroff_kami.html

Both went missing from Depoe Bay, Oregon on November 21, 2001. They were last seen in Boiler Bay state park, and as everyone knows, parks were one of Keyes' hunting grounds. Authorities assumed that the couple drowned, and there's no way to really disprove (or prove) this theory without a body. A few days after they went missing one of Hyatt's shoes was found. This always made me feel weird, since I've always associated that kind of stuff with abductions and not drownings. Also, I find it weird that they would both drown, yet neither of their bodies would be recovered.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/c/castro_guadalupe.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/a/arias_aqueda.html

Castro went missing with her three year old daughter from Longview, Washington on November 26, 2001. They were last seen by Gregario Arias Ibal, Castro's husband and Arias' father. The vehicle they were riding was later found abandoned in California, parked at the residence of one of Ibal's relatives. Family members of Castro's later received a phone call stating she was currently in Arizona and ill, but noting more ever came of it. In my opinion, it sounds like Ibal was responsible for their disappearances, but there doesn't seem to be any concrete proof. Either way, I think it's unlikely Keyes was responsible for their disappearances.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/murphy_kieran.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/murphy_ornaith.html

Kieran went missing from San Francisco, California on December 15, 2001 and Ornaith went missing from Oakland, California on December 16, 2001. They were husband and wife, and were in the process of getting a divorce at the time of their 2001 disappearances. Ornaith owned a boat, and someone matching Kieran's description was seem near the boat on the evening of his disappearance. That night, people in the area reported hearing loud banging sounds, although no one was sure if these sounds came from a gun. Ornaith was last heard from by her niece a day later. She has never been heard from again; her boat has never been located either. This case also seems unlikely to me, as it seems to be a murder-suicide in my opinion.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/r/russell_charles.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/n/nelson_catherine.html

They went missing from Phoenix, Arizona on February 2, 2002. They were planning on traveling to Tucson, Arizona so they could look at an advertised motor cycle. Neither of them have ever been heard from again, and investigators later learned that the advertisement placed was likely a ruse, since other two models of the motor cycle they were planning on seeing (2002 Ducati) were in Arizona at the time being. Investigators believe they met with foul play, and that whoever killed them was planning on robbing them. There is very little evidence to prove this theory however, and their disappearances remain unsolved.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/guillen_claudia_berenice.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/guillen_claudia_jareth.html

Claudia B. went missing with her two year old daughter, Claudia J. from Yuma, Arizona on November 24, 2004. They were last seen at a store in Yuma on the day of their disappearances, and the car they were using was later found abandoned in front of the same store. The car was later towed. Investigators believe foul play was involved in their disappearances, and reportedly have a person of interest in their cases. Claudia's boyfriend, Ricardo Salgado has a history of domestic violence and reportedly fled to Mexico after he was interviewed by the police. Seems unlikely Keyes was involved in this case in my opinion.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/b/brown_gary_oscar.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/j/johnson_michael_henry.html

Brown and Johnson were last seen somewhere in Los Angeles, California on December 2, 2004. Few details are available in their cases, so it's difficult to say whether or not Keyes was involved.
___

The only cases that really stick out to me here are those of Hyatt and Vollendroff, Russell and Nelson, and Brown and Johnson.

Hyatt and Vollendroff both went missing from a state park, and it would have been relatively easy for Keyes to gain control of two teenagers. Not to mention the fact that the drive from Depoe Bay, Oregon to Washington state would be a few hours at most. The fact that investigators believe they drowned kinda stops the investigation there though, unless some more proof is found to prove them otherwise.

Russell and Nelson seemingly went missing without a trace, and Keyes was reported as saying he waited from victims to "come to him". The thing that gets me is that Keyes claimed to have killed the couple in Washington state, and a drive from Arizona to Washington is approximately 24 hours (and that's if you take all of the major highways, tolls, etc. someone Keyes probably would have avoided.) He would have had to maintain control of two fully grown adults for about a day, ensuring they don't get loose while struggling to get free. Seems unlikely in my opinion.

I only included Brown and Johnson because there isn't enough evidence to go either way. Not to stereotype or offend anyone, but their disappearances could be gang or drug related, even though charley project makes no mention of either Brown or Johnson being involved in such activities. We also some back to the fact that Keyes would have had to drive all the way from California to Washington while maintaining control of two fully grown adults. Seems unlikely to me.

Any thoughts?

At one point I was doing some work trying to find possible IK victims, I have a whole file on missing people from the area.

Unfortunately my computer is in the shop, so I don't have access to the file right now, maybe in a couple of weeks I'll have access again if you are interested in taking a look.

When IK said he killed "a couple" in Washington, I wondered if that should be taken literally as in a couple like 2 people together, or as in a couple as in 2 or more people separately... who knows?

Who am I? I am that tiny voice in the back of your mind which encourages you to be who you choose to be as long as you are truthful to yourself. I am that tiny voice in the back of your mind that encourages you to reach higher. I am that tiny voice in the back of your mind that makes you understand that you are a survivor...that you are important...that you matter.

 

[Backwoods]

:welcome5:

Welcome to Websleuths, cgon4872!

I look forward to having more time a little later to look more closely at your suggestions...they sound interesting.

 

[scoobydoobie]

Keyes was caught with red light cameras. For each atm withdrawal he made the FBI would access the red light cameras(or plate readers) within a mile or so of that withdrawal. Then they cross referenced those plates with the ones from other withdrawals. His rental car was the only one in all those locations and times. Then they got his ID from the rental company, traced him to the hotel via his credit card and waited for him to leave the hotel to pick him up. He would have been better off repeatedly hitting ATMs in anchorage, by traveling from town to town he made himself stick out. The cops said they saw his rental car in one of the atm cameras but I think that is just a lie so people (bank robbers) don't realize how much the feds use plate readers. I don't think Keyes would be that careless as to show his car to the atm camera, but maybe I'm wrong. I'd imagine he'd run a couple blocks on foot to the atm.

I also remember someone (Russo?) kindof quietly telling Keyes something like "Yeah, and with that we can follow along with it, just like in Google Street view and see where it went" and Keyes was impressed or surprised by what the guy said. It gave me the impression the cop was telling Keyes how they could retrace his steps somehow. I had assumed his rental car had a gps history, or maybe his laptop did. But I wonder now if it was via the licence plate readers. They could figure out where he went by looking up every plate reader he went through. Like connect the dots. Btw, I heard that comment during one of the interviews the post dispatch posted I think, maybe when Keyes was showing them something on Google earth. I have trouble finding those audios anymore.

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[cgon4872]

I personally think Keyes' arrest came down to dumb luck. I remember seeing a documentary on how when he was in the Southwest and taking money out of the account Koenig and her boyfriend shared, the car Keyes was diving was caught on a security camera. Just the car though, not the license place. A BOLO was put out for the car throughout the Southwest, including Texas, Louisiana and I think Arkansas. They also got a general description of a "white, muscular male that was approximately 6' tall".

I recall reading somewhere that on the day of his arrest Keyes noticed a police officer pull into the parking lot of the hotel he was staying at, and wrote down the license plate numbers of all the white sedans (the rental car he was driving during his trip to Texas). This naturally concerned him, so he went to a rental car agency and got a new rental car. Ironically it was the same make and model, it just had a different license plate. Later on, an observant officer noticed Keyes pulling out of a parking lot somewhere in Lufkin, Texas and noted that he was speeding a little bit. He probably took this opportunity to pull Keyes over, noting that they both fit the general description of the outstanding BOLO. The officer found that Keyes was from Alaska, was in possession of the debit card Koenig and her boyfriend shared, and had a copious amount of cash in his car as well.

That's just my two cents though. Either way, it's scary to think how he almost got away with it.

 

[scoobydoobie]

Maybe it was dumb luck. Regardless, the feds use plate readers to catch high priority criminals and are trying to keep it secret. They dont want bank robbers or wannabe terrorists knowing about this method of detection. I figured this was a case they had used it on, maybe I'm wrong. Its kinda crazy when you think of all the crimes that could be solved if state cops had access to this database.

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[cgon4872]

I don't think license plates readers are a real secret in the criminal underworld. The police have have had them for quite a few years last I heard.

 

[scoobydoobie]

I'm sure some criminals know about plate readers. I was pointing out that the media never says "he was caught with a license plate reader". Its a media blackout when it comes to that subject really. If they did even the dumb criminals would be aware of how much of a threat the readers are to criminals

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[bessie]

The Capture of Israel Keyes

Israel Keyes Media Thread

 

[shandram19]

I personally think Keyes' arrest came down to dumb luck. I remember seeing a documentary on how when he was in the Southwest and taking money out of the account Koenig and her boyfriend shared, the car Keyes was diving was caught on a security camera. Just the car though, not the license place. A BOLO was put out for the car throughout the Southwest, including Texas, Louisiana and I think Arkansas. They also got a general description of a "white, muscular male that was approximately 6' tall".

I recall reading somewhere that on the day of his arrest Keyes noticed a police officer pull into the parking lot of the hotel he was staying at, and wrote down the license plate numbers of all the white sedans (the rental car he was driving during his trip to Texas). This naturally concerned him, so he went to a rental car agency and got a new rental car. Ironically it was the same make and model, it just had a different license plate. Later on, an observant officer noticed Keyes pulling out of a parking lot somewhere in Lufkin, Texas and noted that he was speeding a little bit. He probably took this opportunity to pull Keyes over, noting that they both fit the general description of the outstanding BOLO. The officer found that Keyes was from Alaska, was in possession of the debit card Koenig and her boyfriend shared, and had a copious amount of cash in his car as well.

That's just my two cents though. Either way, it's scary to think how he almost got away with it.

Like it, however I was under the impression he was driving a (blue?) Kia soul. I made note of that in my mind because I found it ironic that someone with no "soul" would be driving that particular car. Of course I could be wrong. glad to see people start posting on this thread again!

Who am I? I am that tiny voice in the back of your mind which encourages you to be who you choose to be as long as you are truthful to yourself. I am that tiny voice in the back of your mind that encourages you to reach higher. I am that tiny voice in the back of your mind that makes you understand that you are a survivor...that you are important...that you matter.

 

[shandram19]

Like it, however I was under the impression he was driving a (blue?) Kia soul. I made note of that in my mind because I found it ironic that someone with no "soul" would be driving that particular car. Of course I could be wrong. glad to see people start posting on this thread again!

Who am I? I am that tiny voice in the back of your mind which encourages you to be who you choose to be as long as you are truthful to yourself. I am that tiny voice in the back of your mind that encourages you to reach higher. I am that tiny voice in the back of your mind that makes you understand that you are a survivor...that you are important...that you matter.

Quoting myself... guess I was wrong about the car... after reading Bessie's link. Wonder where my mind came up with blue Kia soul...

Who am I? I am that tiny voice in the back of your mind which encourages you to be who you choose to be as long as you are truthful to yourself. I am that tiny voice in the back of your mind that encourages you to reach higher. I am that tiny voice in the back of your mind that makes you understand that you are a survivor...that you are important...that you matter.

 

[scoobydoobie]

He had a blue Kia soul on a previous trip to texas I think, when he bank robbed and arsoned

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[shandram19]

Thanks, that's the car he got stuck in the mud somewhere in, correct? I'm gonna have to brush up on my IK facts again lol.

Who am I? I am that tiny voice in the back of your mind which encourages you to be who you choose to be as long as you are truthful to yourself. I am that tiny voice in the back of your mind that encourages you to reach higher. I am that tiny voice in the back of your mind that makes you understand that you are a survivor...that you are important...that you matter.

 

[cgon4872]

Speaking of Keyes in Texas, does anyone know what ever come of the FBI's suspicion that Keyes killed someone in Texas or some surrounding state after the Koenig murder?

 

[shandram19]

Speaking of Keyes in Texas, does anyone know what ever come of the FBI's suspicion that Keyes killed someone in Texas or some surrounding state after the Koenig murder?

To the best of my knowledge, the FBI hasn't given any update. But if you look at the Texas time lines, and the missing people in Texas at that time there are very few cases that fit the criteria. One specifically that stood out to me was a man, his name eludes me at the moment without looking it up, I believe that he was a truck driver or construction worker--something along those lines. Hope this helps.

Who am I? I am that tiny voice in the back of your mind which encourages you to be who you choose to be as long as you are truthful to yourself. I am that tiny voice in the back of your mind that encourages you to reach higher. I am that tiny voice in the back of your mind that makes you understand that you are a survivor...that you are important...that you matter.

 

[scoobydoobie]

Jimmy tidwell. He disappeared the night before the azle robbery I think. According to bandittracker.com a Kia soul was seen prior to the robbery but it was unknown if it was related. I assume he scoped out the bank a day or so before in his rental kia, then searched for a person to kidnap with the intent of using their vehicle for the robbery.

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[shandram19]

Yes, Jimmy Tidwell. Here is his thread, not much there except for a few articles. Again I was incorrect, he worked for an electric company and his Truck was found near his house. Strange how the mind can play tricks on you when you've been away from everything that you've researched for awhile. I apologize. Xp

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164560

Who am I? I am that tiny voice in the back of your mind which encourages you to be who you choose to be as long as you are truthful to yourself. I am that tiny voice in the back of your mind that encourages you to reach higher. I am that tiny voice in the back of your mind that makes you understand that you are a survivor...that you are important...that you matter.

 

[cgon4872]

Do people who work with electric typically wear hard hats/facial masks? That was the disguise Keyes donned during the Azle bank robbery. Problem is, Keyes worked construction, so he easily could've brought those items with him on his trip too.

Not to mention the fact that when he was arrested, he has the numbers of three Houston area prostitutes. That always made me wonder if he choose prostitutes as potential victims.

 

[scoobydoobie]

I'm not sure if that was a work trip for keyes, I think that was the trip that he went on a cruise. Also he was more of a carpenter/personal contractor and those kindof workers usually don't wear hardhats. Pure speculation though.

For a sec, lets assume he took Tidwell so he could use Tidwells truck to rob the Azle bank. Keyes would probably have to...

1. park his rental car somewhere near Tidwells house
2. take Tidwells truck and Tidwell himself
3. Get rid of tidwell somewhere
4. Drive to Aledo
5. Commit burglary and arson
6. Drive to Azle
7. Rob bank
8. Cache the bank loot maybe?
9. Drive back and ditch Tidwells truck somewhere near his rental car

I don't see time being a factor, but the distance would require a refill of tidwells gas tank. How could he do that? He wouldn't want to pay cash bc he would be on camera in the gas station. And he wouldn't want to pay at the pump with his own card probably.

I had always thought it was weird when he described burglarizing the house in Aledo how he just parked in the driveway while he spent like an hour going through that house. It was in a neighborhood. If it wasn't his car that he was driving it makes more sense, if someone shows up he could just run out the back door. But if it was his own car he couldn't do that. So I kind of think he wasn't driving his own car that day.

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[cgon4872]

He went on a cruise with his daughter and girlfriend, but afterword he spent sometime in the Southeast by himself.

I don't recall Keyes ever saying he parked his car in the driveway of the home he burglarized though. Where did you read that? That sounds brazen, even for him.