NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - #12

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I've lived in Canada near Quebec City for well over a decade now and I've never heard anything about a possible sighting of Maura Murray in the region on the news. I would love to see an actual article on that or proof that someone said she was sighted in the Quebec City region.
 
I do not know the answers to the questions I'm about to ask and don't want to read through 12 threads to try and find the answers.

My theory has always been Maura intended to return to the University and that's the reason for the email to her professor.

1. Has anyone associated with Maura ever confirmed that she was or intended to leave the nursing program?

2. Has anyone associated with Maura ever confirmed she was leaving UMass?

I'm not certain about the first question, but with the second question it seems the assumption is she was leaving UMass because she had boxes packed and pictures off the wall. Maybe she was moving to a different dorm. Maybe she was moving off campus. Maybe she was quitting. Maybe she was doing something that I'm not thinking of. It seems in general people consider a lot of her actions eradicate / impulsive / illogical and then try to apply logic to some of her other actions. If she has boxes packed and pictures off the wall it would logically appear that Maura's leaving UMass, but Maura is often illogical and impulsive so logic doesn't apply or maybe she was having a lucid moment and logic does apply. Did the helicopter fly over an area that one would logically take if fleeing on foot or did they also consider that it's not uncommon for Maura to be eradicate and illogical and maybe she went in a direction that makes no logical sense at all. It's further complicated by the fact her friends and family won't discuss the case and if they did it's likely they'd paint a picture of Maura that's not accurate.

...

BBM/Snipped. I can't answer your two questions directly, but there is a decent amount of speculation about why the room was so carefully packed up. Unfortunately, as with so many things about MM, the speculation doesn't suggest a strong conclusion either way. I see where you're going...I would think the same type of thing: why would anyone pack up like that unless they were leaving?

But two things come to mind: 1.) apparently, at UMass, it was not uncommon practice for students to pack dorm rooms up during extended breaks (esp. Winter, when you'd be coming back for Spring Term). And one view was that upon returning, she hadn't yet had a chance to unpack - in that theory, 'why?' is a more provocative question. 2.) I believe I read she was pretty neat - she had that type of personality. So, the logic goes it wouldn't be abnormal for her to go through a full pack/unpack of her things.

One other thing I think is important. Unless someone is on the suicide angle, or a perspective related to the psychology of 'nesting', I'm not sure the act of packing is as meaningful as the act of having moved items. For example, in two wildly divergent scenarios of a.) fleeing to Canada or b.) an unexpected abduction, the state of her things sitting in that room wouldn't seem to have influenced either outcome.
 
I think people just think it strange that at least no stills were released from the ATM footage. After all, this is what she looked like on the day she disappeared. That is normally something which LE would want the public to see.

There are obviously some things LE is keeping secret. The fact that they never released footage of a missing person as she appeared less than 4 hours after never being seen again leads me to believe it possible that there is something relevant about the footage. Does she have a bruise on her face maybe?

That is interesting and odd the ATM footage wasn't released. Pure uninformed speculation alert here, but maybe she was wearing sunglasses and they had some better, very recent picture alternatives to leverage. For example, I would have used that formal posed picture, as it sort of split the difference between hair down and the bun/updo she seemed to wear a lot. I wonder if LE did...

About her face and appearance, we may not have a last day picture, but we do have statements from BA contemporaneous to her very last sighting and two police BOLOs about her appearance at that time. BA said he had a clear view of her face (enough to comment "hair down" and "no blood"). Darkness might have obscured existing bruises or wounds, but there was no radical, notable item that was released. And she also hadn't changed into something like a full clown suit complete with clown make-up or done a Taxi Driver-esque self-barbering move - that might be some obvious giveaway about her state of mind. The LE descriptions sounded pretty ordinary in terms of hair/face/clothing, with exception of getting her height wrong and later correcting that.
 
The theory about her running away to Canada is ridiculous. There is no way she could have just walked there on her own in the winter snow and if someone drove her there they would have been stopped and arrested at the border. It's just an easy explanation that some people including law enforcement like to throw out often when a person disappears "near" the Canadian border. The funny thing about that is that Haverhill, NH is not near the Canadian border. It's 130 miles or a 3 hour drive away from the closest city in Canada.

BBM. I don't think it's out of hand ridiculous, considering the region, but it is like a sentence subject without a predicate.

To me, the three evidentiary problems are 1.) The 91. She was inferentially presumed to be on that highway from Amherst, which runs directly into Canada, so why get off and go well off that track? - in simplest scenario of heading directly to Canada; 2.) Her computer searches, phone calls (inquiry to DS/LS) and documents in the Saturn (directions to Burlington, VT and Stowe, VT) showed interest in going to a set of places, none of which were in Canada. So there's a break there - could be talking about a multi-stop trip with Canada the final destination, but no proof of that; and 3.) The 302 and 112 (the road on which the accident occurred) both can lead drivers to the town of Bartlett, New Hampshire, which was a "family favorite vacation spot" and location of the condo inquiry she had made by phone) - raising good possibility that was the destination she actually selected, among the options.

For my money, the evidence always rules - it's the closest thing we have to her actually saying what she intended & wound up doing. So I agree with Tarik, the Canada angle should be viewed with suspicion without proof, esp. where her conduct leads away from that angle.

P.S. One thing I had missed and caught in looking at some of the facts again...there was an implication 112 was shorter, but more of a 'summer' route, than 302, which is what locals often take in winter months to get to/from points east. I've always wondered what she was doing on the smaller road when 302 does the job, but it actually makes sense if previous Murray trips to Bartlett had ordinarily been in non-snow months (that would be a question I'd like answered). She would have just been following the route she knew.
 
I've lived in Canada near Quebec City for well over a decade now and I've never heard anything about a possible sighting of Maura Murray in the region on the news. I would love to see an actual article on that or proof that someone said she was sighted in the Quebec City region.

Try searching "Quebec City" on my blog.
 
I think the phrase "red flag" is a bit harsh, though I do find it strange that Fred does not want a book written about Maura, period. In fact I wonder if that is even the case. Maybe Fred just did not want a book written by some guy he does not know and has never even heard of. The only "red flag" here to me is that Fred Murray likes to have as much control over all this as possible, and in many ways I don't really blame him.

I think Fred Murray only wants to control his daughter's reputation/memory. That was taken away from him by Renner and strangers on the Internet. I cannot imagine how painful it would be to see the most personal aspects of my daughter's life being exploited on-line by a blogger/writer who only wants to keep his name attached to this case because of his own agenda.

Maura is not the first missing case I've seen where a blogger/writer turned to rumor and speculation about the family and the victims, just to keep his blog/book in the limelight. The internet tore this family apart because of what this blogger wrote. Sadly, these missing persons were later found murdered and now that the story is slowly being released in court, it turns out that most of what the blogger/writer revealed was completely false. I just think we all need to remember that just because someone writes a book, especially without the family's consent, it doesn't make them an authority on the case.

All just MHO!
 
My opinion on whether she is alive or dead changes as new info comes in, the way it should when one keeps an open mind about these things. Today, I'm at 50/50. It would be irresponsible for me to take down info that references leads to sightings in Canada until I know for sure she is no longer alive.

Irresponsible to who?
 
Reno where did you get the info that at UMASS especially, it was not uncommon for students to pack up their dorm during extended breaks (not trying to say that isn't true, just I have never read that anywhere before). I never went to university in MA, so maybe on the east coast things were different, but when I lived in the dorms at the university I attended in IL, it was common for people to pack up their dorm rooms (you were, after all, leaving to go home for over a month) but not in the way MM packed up hers. What I mean is, if all/most of her clothes had been packed in boxes, or her toiletries, things like that, it might make sense to me that she hadn't completely unpacked. But what would be the purpose of taking everything off the walls and packing it in boxes? From my understanding everything, had been packed up in boxes w. the exception of the printed out email from BR to MM that discussed infidelity on his part (or something of that nature...as far as I know the specific contents have never been released. What I have never been able to understand, and why it always appeared to me as though she packed her room w. the intention of having someone else return to it, is why leave out an email on top of packed boxes? She already knew the email existed, it would have been saved on her computer, why print it out and leave it? IMO, she knew she wouldn't be the one returning to that room.
 
Reno where did you get the info that at UMASS especially, it was not uncommon for students to pack up their dorm during extended breaks (not trying to say that isn't true, just I have never read that anywhere before). I never went to university in MA, so maybe on the east coast things were different, but when I lived in the dorms at the university I attended in IL, it was common for people to pack up their dorm rooms (you were, after all, leaving to go home for over a month) but not in the way MM packed up hers. What I mean is, if all/most of her clothes had been packed in boxes, or her toiletries, things like that, it might make sense to me that she hadn't completely unpacked. But what would be the purpose of taking everything off the walls and packing it in boxes? From my understanding everything, had been packed up in boxes w. the exception of the printed out email from BR to MM that discussed infidelity on his part (or something of that nature...as far as I know the specific contents have never been released. What I have never been able to understand, and why it always appeared to me as though she packed her room w. the intention of having someone else return to it, is why leave out an email on top of packed boxes? She already knew the email existed, it would have been saved on her computer, why print it out and leave it? IMO, she knew she wouldn't be the one returning to that room.

BBM. stephsb, thanks for your question. I tried to word my first point, about UMass, carefully, for a few reasons - a.) I also didn't go there. Someone who did might say, "that's total BS!" b.) to emphasize the thought a between-term pack up wasn't abnormal, not that it was universal, and c.) to connect an external influence on what appears to have been MM's natural inclination. Here's the UMass link about rooming dynamics: http://www.housing.umass.edu/assign/rates.html - see the policies and penalties starting at "Blocked Room Fee."

Let me also emphasize - Ricochet raised a number of options, which all seem very plausible - around the core question of whether anyone had confirmed a decision to leave the school. I raised my points to fit facts to theory - in support of idea it's not a slam dunk MM just packed up after the troubling events of Feb 5 & 6. But don't get me wrong - I would be equally troubled by implication she had not unpacked since returning from Winter Break.

Here's the Whitman Hanson source - it's pretty widely known - well balanced between "leaving" and "ordinary course of things" theories:

There is further evidence suggesting that Maura had intended to leave campus for at least a few days. Maura had "fastidiously packed all her belongings into boxes before she left school, even removing the art from her dorm room walls," the Boston Globe reported, citing UMass Police Lieutenant Robert Thrasher."It looked like she was planning to leave school," said Lieutenant John Scarinza of the New Hampshire State Police.

Although police and some friends suggest from her packing that Maura may have been intending to leave school permanently, there is reason to doubt such a conclusion. Maura met her boyfriend, Billy Rausch, in the fall of 2001 while attending West Point. Maura was following in her sister Julie’s footsteps, but later decided military life wasn’t for her and transferred to UMass. Despite the distance Maura and Billy remained close.

Maura had recently returned from winter break. The University of Massachusetts has an unusually long break running from before Christmas into late January. Maura returned home to Hanson during her break and logically would have packed her belongings for such an extended time away. The UMass calendar refers to a "Welcome Back Week," occurring over the last week of January and into the first week in February. It is therefore plausible that Maura had been back on campus less than 10 days.

Family members also point out that Maura was a "neat-freak" by nature, so it wouldn't be unusual for the former West Point cadet to have her belongings carefully packed and arranged.
 
You know James, it's ok to say you were mistaken etc.


Sent By Owl
 
maura2.jpg

I was feeling creative this afternoon. I don't think I've ever seen this photo in color. I'm probably off some on the hair color.
 
BBM. I don't think it's out of hand ridiculous, considering the region, but it is like a sentence subject without a predicate.

To me, the three evidentiary problems are 1.) The 91. She was inferentially presumed to be on that highway from Amherst, which runs directly into Canada, so why get off and go well off that track? - in simplest scenario of heading directly to Canada; 2.) Her computer searches, phone calls (inquiry to DS/LS) and documents in the Saturn (directions to Burlington, VT and Stowe, VT) showed interest in going to a set of places, none of which were in Canada. So there's a break there - could be talking about a multi-stop trip with Canada the final destination, but no proof of that; and 3.) The 302 and 112 (the road on which the accident occurred) both can lead drivers to the town of Bartlett, New Hampshire, which was a "family favorite vacation spot" and location of the condo inquiry she had made by phone) - raising good possibility that was the destination she actually selected, among the options.

For my money, the evidence always rules - it's the closest thing we have to her actually saying what she intended & wound up doing. So I agree with Tarik, the Canada angle should be viewed with suspicion without proof, esp. where her conduct leads away from that angle.

P.S. One thing I had missed and caught in looking at some of the facts again...there was an implication 112 was shorter, but more of a 'summer' route, than 302, which is what locals often take in winter months to get to/from points east. I've always wondered what she was doing on the smaller road when 302 does the job, but it actually makes sense if previous Murray trips to Bartlett had ordinarily been in non-snow months (that would be a question I'd like answered). She would have just been following the route she knew.

Simply asking the question "why would a UMass student suddenly drop everything and run away in a hurry to Canada?" should suffice to know that logically speaking Maura had no business going all the way to Canada and that it definitely wasn't in her plans. Now, whether she was picked up by somebody and then driven to Canada is possible but highly unlikely and she would have been stopped by border patrols.
 
Try searching "Quebec City" on my blog.

It's just the testimony of a woman who thinks she may have seen Maura Murray in her record store in Quebec, I'm sorry but that's not really a proof of anything. Plus, the woman spoke poor English and was probably more at ease in French so some information may have been misunderstood due to the language barrier. Here's the thing about that sighting though, I too could go out right now in the streets of Quebec City and I bet I would see a lot of teenage girls that physically ressemble Maura Murray. In a city of over 500 000 inhabitants, you are bound to run into people that look similar to her. Again, that's not really proof of anything and it wasn't reported in the media so I don't really consider that to be all that relevant. The chances of seeing someone who disappeared 9 years before suddenly appear 400 miles from where she vanished is not only ludacrious but also highly unlikely. There's a reason why when a person disappears often times there will be sightings all across the US and a few in Canada. But it's not evidence of anything.
 
Simply asking the question "why would a UMass student suddenly drop everything and run away in a hurry to Canada?" should suffice to know that logically speaking Maura had no business going all the way to Canada and that it definitely wasn't in her plans. Now, whether she was picked up by somebody and then driven to Canada is possible but highly unlikely and she would have been stopped by border patrols.

That's what I was thinking. Why would Maura run off to Canada? Where did this idea even come from? I know Renner went to Canada but what made him think that was a good idea? Sorry to ask here. I tried reading Renner's blog but I can't deal with all the unsubstantiated rumors. I did see that Lance and Tim, the two Podcasters, accompanied Renner to Canada back in 2013, so they've been working with him for awhile.
 
It's just the testimony of a woman who thinks she may have seen Maura Murray in her record store in Quebec, I'm sorry but that's not really a proof of anything. Plus, the woman spoke poor English and was probably more at ease in French so some information may have been misunderstood due to the language barrier. Here's the thing about that sighting though, I too could go out right now in the streets of Quebec City and I bet I would see a lot of teenage girls that physically ressemble Maura Murray. In a city of over 500 000 inhabitants, you are bound to run into people that look similar to her. Again, that's not really proof of anything and it wasn't reported in the media so I don't really consider that to be all that relevant. The chances of seeing someone who disappeared 9 years before suddenly appear 400 miles from where she vanished is not only ludacrious but also highly unlikely. There's a reason why when a person disappears often times there will be sightings all across the US and a few in Canada. But it's not evidence of anything.

The bodies of Bradyn Fuksa and John Glasgow were both found recently near to where they were both last seen and the both likely died the day they were last seen. Guess what? There were several "sightings" of both men over the years. Oh, and the people who saw them were absolutely sure it was them.
 
That's what I was thinking. Why would Maura run off to Canada? Where did this idea even come from? I know Renner went to Canada but what made him think that was a good idea? Sorry to ask here. I tried reading Renner's blog but I can't deal with all the unsubstantiated rumors. I did see that Lance and Tim, the two Podcasters, accompanied Renner to Canada back in 2013, so they've been working with him for awhile.

The whole Canada thing comes from an anonymous message board post in 2009 by a user named Citigirl who claimed to have inside info that Maura fled to Canada with an unnamed boyfriend after hitting Petrit Vasi. The identity of this poster (though alleged to be a Murray cousin), has never been confirmed, nor have any of their claims been substantiated. So the "she ran away to Canada" theory, like so many others in this case, hinges entirely upon internet gossip and logical contortions.
 
This is a very basic, well-known part of the case, and if you're just hearing this now, you really haven't done enough research. There was a post on a messagboard devoted to Maura's case years ago, in which a person wrote that Maura fled to Canada after striking Vasi with her car. The post took on certain credence after a user named "Observer" replied that this was known to certain members of the family. Observer was tracked to the region of a small town where Fred's cousins lived.

There were also posts on Canadian messageboards, supposedly by a schoolmate of Maura's, who claimed they saw her near Montreal.

Look, I'm not saying these reports are definitive, but they deserve to be followed, like any lead. please do research before dismissing them entirely.
 
Sorry but there are at least 20 other genuinely credible theories that are worth looking at other than the theory about her disappearing in the wild on a cold winter night to reach Canada that was concocted by a complete stranger online and never substantiated or confirmed afterwards. It was only conviniently mentioned because geographically New Hampshire happens to have a border with Canada. It's an easy explanation that was made up without any proof simply because of her "proximity" with Canada as opposed to someone who would have vanished from Rhode Island, Massachussets, Maryland, Delaware or some of the other states below. Until concrete proof emerges that she even wanted to go to Canada in the first place, this will only remain a rumor like the 1000 other rumors that you hear whenever a person disappears. As far as I know, these reports were followed and nothing came out of it so until further notice this remains unverified and unproven internet gossip at best. Either way, like I said, she would have been stopped at the border, they are pretty strict about who they let in in Canada and vice versa. I am willing to be wrong though, prove me wrong!
 
The bodies of Bradyn Fuksa and John Glasgow were both found recently near to where they were both last seen and the both likely died the day they were last seen. Guess what? There were several "sightings" of both men over the years. Oh, and the people who saw them were absolutely sure it was them.

Sightings can happen I'm not saying they can't but some sightings, especially in this case, are simply absurd, comical and designed to get people up and talking. They should be looked at but that's it, spending time talking about them so seriously and starting up rumors is unneccessary especially when the information is not substantiated. Statistically speaking, sightings occur everywhere when someone goes missing but rarely do they lead to something more.
 
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