France - Explosions and shooting in Paris, 13 November 2015 #1

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Sonya610 said:
LOL. Sharia law mentions motor bikes? I don't think so. Married couples frequently ride on the same motor bike in strict Muslim countries that follow Sharia (such as Iran). Now a woman pressing her body up against a male friend in public? Yes, that would violate Sharia.
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Oh yes of course Sonya610; that was my point and I should of written it better. It's allowed for women to ride bike with male as long as it's their permitted guardian (not limited to husband). Because of the reason you mentioned: a woman pressing her body up against a male friend. There's no limit in this obviously; motorbike, jetski, etc...
 
A lot of eye-witness accounts are begining to come out which really depict the horror of the attacks. Quite a few images and videos too which are just awful to watch.

This article gives an account from Nick Alexander's ex girlfriend who was also at the Bataclan and tried to save him. Absolutely terrifying.

"When anyone started running they would shoot them down. So we got down on the floor. I was afraid whenever I heard a step behind me... they machine-gunned everybody. Nick was in front of me when we were lying on the ground and somebody moved and they just turned round and started shooting us. His back was to me and I couldn’t see what happened and I tried to keep him talking and then I tried to give him mouth-to-mouth resuscitation and they [the gunmen] were just sort of in the shadows and they would shoot if anyone said anything. Then he couldn’t breathe any more and I held him in my arms and told him I loved him."

"Miss Wilson was shot in both thighs and was taken to Saint-Antoine hospital in Paris, after being bandaged and receiving a blood transfusion."



I didn't realise it took police 2h 40m to enter the Bataclan. It sounds like the terrorist's plan to divert emergency services to other scenes was very successful (although I can understand it is an incredibly complex situation for the police to nagivate and organise).

I hope the 20-30 people not yet identified are very soon so their families at least know for sure what has happened to their loved ones.
 
bluesneakers said:
It is difficult to move a spouse to the USA. I went through it and it took two years, plus I had to have a job that paid a minimum amount before I could even submit the application. We were also required to have an interview. How would a husband and four wives be interviewed without giving themselves away? INS wouldn't allow one man to claim four women as family members. They are very strict. How do you list "unofficial wives" on an immigration application?

From your link:


The snopes article only references Michigan. You said it was happening in Europe. Where did you hear that? Do you have a source or is it a rumour?
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It's something I've heard or read and I'm not searching for a link, no I don't believe everything I hear but with the refugee migration to Europe it's not difficult to not believe it's happening. I've also heard Muslims in France are being asked to make room for refugees and take them into their homes.

Maybe it's just not officially happening
 
again maybe posted


[video=youtube;Rfxj9RlfQ9E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfxj9RlfQ9E[/video]
 
anyone else heard that one of them might 15?


  • U.S. sources said the attacks were apparently planned in Belgium , where several people have been arrested.
  • Much of Paris is closed for business, (Boy that wound never happen here)
Europe’s worst terrorist attack since bombs on Madrid’s transport system killed nearly 200 people in March 2004.

612x344


http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-paris-attacks-20151113-storygallery.html
 
CARIIS said:
again maybe posted


[video=youtube;Rfxj9RlfQ9E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfxj9RlfQ9E[/video]
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Yesterday on the news I saw an interview with a dad and his 12 year old son, they were at the concert. I couldn't take my eyes off the boy, I just kept saying over and over, please, I hope this child gets help. The look on his face, his eyes, the terror, can't stop thinking about him.
 
ZaZara, I'm so glad to have you here as 'boots on the ground.' And many thanks to our other EU WS for their time & research during this terrible horror. This looks like a harrowing time.
 
Nuance...

anyone else heard that one of them might 15?


  • U.S. sources said the attacks were apparently planned in Belgium , where several people have been arrested.
  • Much of Paris is closed for business, (Boy that wound never happen here)
Europe’s worst terrorist attack since bombs on Madrid’s transport system killed nearly 200 people in March 2004.

one member of bands crew unaccounted for new album described as blues of rock

The killers were quiet, calm. Jerome Lorenzi decided he had to be the same.......

As he lay on the floor of the darkened concert hall, he held himself as still as possible – not just to avoid attracting the gunmen’s notice, but also to meet death with equanimity if he did.

“You don’t move. You’re just waiting for your turn,” he said Saturday. “I thought, you are going to die, just be as relaxed as you can. Don’t be sad this is the end.”

“Please, please! Stop! Stop!”


When the attackers disappeared into the stairwell to hunt for victims in the second-floor gallery, eet and flee through an emergency exit.

They were unmasked
No sights were far from attack in Jan




The hall is a popular venue in a hopping neighborhood of Paris.

trio of militants who pulled up to the Bataclan in a black car

at another scene:

“It was like ‘boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.’ Then it finished,” he said. “I saw the gunmen in the street. There were two in the car and a third man walked over and got in. They had Kalashnikovs in their hand, and they didn’t run. They walked and seemed calm.”

Nick Alexander, a British man who sold merchandise for the California rock band Eagles of Death Metal, was among those killed at the Bataclan concert hall in Paris on Friday during the terrorist attacks that shook the city.....

face turned to the ground, but once or twice he turned his head a little to try to sneak a look at what was happening. He saw two gunmen, and was struck by their cool, collected manner.

another attacker said, “You killed our brothers in Syria. We’re here now.”

 spoke French without an accent.

A body fell on me, and blood was pouring across my legs. A woman near me, her face was all bloody, but she was alive. A guy next to me, about 50 years old, got shot in the head right in front of me. Bursts of his brain and flesh hit my glasses. I heard bullets flying.”

Time was suddenly made of such warped fabric that neither of the two buddies could say for sure how long they remained trapped there. Nadir thinks it was 10 to 15 minutes; Lorenzi says three.

journalist for French daily Le Monde who recorded the scene, told the newspaper that he opened the door to his apartment building to let victims in and took a bullet in the arm.

he ran as hard as he could, bolting down into a Metro station to get away as fast as possible. In the subway, he was suddenly in a surreal world, among laughing, happy passengers enjoying a Friday night out, completely unaware of the slaughter going on above.

“I’m going to see a psychiatrist tomorrow.”

http://www.latimes.com/world/la-fg-paris-attacks-theater-20151114-story.html
Outside, a terrorist with a suicide belt filled with shrapnel lay dead, and the mortally wounded passerby near him became the first victim of a coordinated act of terrorism that would be the deadliest in Europe in over a decade.

Five minutes later, a black SEAT compact car motored up to Rue Alibert

Lots of issues around next months huge gathering of leader next month in Paris (background news)

........... the gunmen in the black car continued their gruesome round of the city. By 9:36, they had shot up more two bustling nightspots (I get images of Elliot)

When it was over, three hours after the attacks started

the killings part of a “piecemeal third World War.”

gonna see deeper ties back into france-- they know the hotspots, knew busy times, were fasmiliar with streets etc

France is home to the highest proportion of Muslims — 7.5% — of any country in Western Europe.

Brussels suburb of Molenbeek, which has been a center for radical Islamists for several years — it was the home of a man who was recently thwarted before he could carry out a passenger-train massacre in Belgium.

wearing explosives vests with identical detonators,

looked out the window and saw a car stopped in the middle of the intersection
“Shards of glass were everywhere,” he told RTL Radio. “People were screaming. ... It was an absolutely terrifying slaughter, with bodies spread across the ground.”

barrage for some 10 minutes. concert...

attackers mentioned Syria and Iraq as they fired. When police entered the building, two of the terrorists detonated their suicide vests, and one was shot to death by authorities, he said.

One of the attackers at the Bataclan was a 29-year-old man who has been arrested eight times for “acts against the common good,” but who had not been linked to terrorists, Molins said.

A second Frenchman was stopped and questioned at the Belgian border on Saturday. He had rented a black Volkswagen Polo driven by a man believed to be one of the gunmen who attacked concertgoers at the Bataclan, the prosecutor said.

One of the victims was a 23-year-old design student at Cal State Long Beach. Nohemi Gonzalez of El Monte was part of an international exchange program at the Strate School of Design.

All of the terrorists who blew themselves up were wearing “vests or belts” heavy with detonators and metal fragments, such as “nails and ball-bearings,”Each of the suicide bombs appeared to have been built in a similar fashion and with identical components
.....
....police were aware of at least one of them,” said one of the sources, “and had been following him at times but did not think he was operational,” that is, a potential terrorist.

“The others we don’t think were on French police radar,”

...stadium just north of Paris, were meant to “send a statement” because the two teams participating — France and Germany — are Christian countries and because the French president was attending the match.

France would remain at the “top of the list” of its targets.

But the U.S. sources said the multiple sites and soft, crowded targets in the attacks are indicative of Al Qaeda rather than Islamic State.
http://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la-fg-paris-attacks-20151114-story.html

condert about 30 min in ... band was seven songs into

...... Hutchinson, live recording engineer for the Eagles of Death Metal, was at the drag races in Pomona late Friday afternoon when his cellphone, as he put it, “went completely nonstop ballistic.”
“Have you heard the news?” one of the callers asked. “Our band is in the middle of a terrorist attack in Paris.”


the band’s guitar player.
“Dave said, ‘It was horrifying. We’re OK. Give everyone our love.’ “

band, which despite its name is best known for rocking dance tunes and bluesy anthems of sexual healing, had opened its 2015 European tour two weeks earlier on a high note, performing “Save a Prayer” with Duran Duran, the British pop group who wrote the 1982 hit.

night before the Paris concert, the band had posted a photo shot from behind singer Jesse Hughes of a cheering crowd inside Dublin's full Olympia Theatre. A caption read: “This view never, ever, ever, ever gets old.”


Hours before the concert on Friday, touring drummer Julian Dorio posted a lush picaresque image of himself on a bike beside the Notre Dame cathedral on Instagram: “There's nothing quite like Paris via bicycle.”

....its performance of “Kiss the Devil” was interrupted by gunfired the ironies...

cancelled the remaining 20 dates on the European tour, according to promoters.

widespread cancellations. U2 cancelled a heavily promoted Paris concert that was to be broadcast on HBO.

Foo Fighters abruptly ended its European tour, which was in Italy on Friday,
 
FrostOwl said:
So you mean that people who are doctors, nurses, engineers and others with higher education and most likely well skilled in the English language should take unskilled labour work just because they are from Syria or other countries outside the Western world?
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Yes. Absolutely yes. Any "refugees" who claim to have professional skills and education will not be permitted to work in any licensed or professional fields or jobs in a western nation until they are able to demonstrate that their education and skill sets match those of qualified professionals in the country they "settle" in. That could take many, many years. A great deal of "professional" education in developing nations is not equivalent to that which exists in developed nations. If they attended a qualified university program in a developed nation, they can work to obtain documentation of that education, and work to submit it for consideration in the process. If their education took place in a developing nation (third world country), it would be extremely difficult to demonstrate that this education is equivalent to that in the U.S. or Canada, for example. As it should be. We cannot have self-professed professionals who are undocumented and whose credentials are not verified and equivalent, performing patient care, building bridges, etc. We are a nation of laws for good reasons.

A doctor or nurse, for example, will have to substantiate their professional education, or repeat the entire process. That includes entrance exams, degree programs, research, licensing, board certifications, etc. They wouldn't be permitted to even work as a nurses aide or patient care assistant until they completed the training process for those jobs. If a doctor or nurse wanted to work in that field, they would have a far easier time of it in a neighboring middle eastern country, not a western country as a "refugee."

The post pre-supposes that there are a number of professionals among the current wave of middle eastern migrants. I don't think that is a reasonable supposition at all-- especially given that 90% or more are 18-30 year old men-- who would not be done with a professional educational process. My strong supposition is that any professionals got out using ordinary channels ahead of this current wave. They had the ability to travel differently than the current wave of migrants.

And to answer the question, yes, a real refugee should take any legally authorized job they are permitted to get, which will almost certainly be unskilled. They should plan to fully assimilate and become citizens of their new country, which is a process that takes many years. Being a refugee means starting over in a new place.
 
I recall watching the live coverage and hearing that police delayed entering the theater for some time because they assumed it was a hostage thing and were getting a 'negotiation team' in place. If so, that delay may have cost several their lives.

No criticism of the authorities intended. If so however it just illustrates that governments need to adapt themselves to some new realities.
 
Did not realize that they were also stabbing and torturing the concert goers in between firing at them. OMG, where oh where is the humanity?!! imo.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...er-named-investigation-continues-live-updates
"Two Scottish women have described how they hid in a cellar for three hours to escape the killers at the Bataclan.

Mariesha Payne, 33, and Christine Tudhope were in Paris to celebrate Tudhope’s 35th birthday and were standing near the front of the stage, watching US rock band Eagles of Death Metal, when the shooting began.

Payne told the Daily Record she was afraid she would never see her two children again:

I cannot believe we got out alive. While we were hiding there was a pause in the shots for about 20 minutes but there was a lot of screaming - a witness we spoke to later said people were being tortured and stabbed at that point.

Speaking later to Sky News as they arrived back at Edinburgh airport, Tudhope said she initially thought the gunfire was firecrackers then saw bullets hitting the stage:

A second round went off, most people ducked, but I just said run, just get out of here. In the confusion, if we had gone left we would have instantly been out on to the street and probably the first people out of the building, but, just confused, we ran right and ended up being in a room that we couldn’t get out of.

There were no exits but we found a door to the cellar, which we just ran into but then realised we were trapped and there was no way out of there.

A few seconds later the door burst open and we just thought, they’re coming we are going to die. It was two other concertgoers. We managed to barricade ourselves in, turn the lights out and we were then trapped there for the next three hours just having to listen to what was happening."
rbbm.
 
FrostOwl said:
So you mean that people who are doctors, nurses, engineers and others with higher education and most likely well skilled in the English language should take unskilled labour work just because they are from Syria or other countries outside the Western world?
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Back in the 1960's, thousands of Cuban professionals worked menial jobs while they assimilated and gained U.S. accreditation in their respective professions. I think it's safe to say that the vast majority, at least among the many I know, personally, did so proudly and with gratitude. The same can be said for other ethnic groups, as well.
 
KALI said:
I'm sure that your grandparents did not come to America to insist that Americans change their religious beliefs to their beliefs, or face being murdered for not doing so, or to additionally rape their wives and children.

I do NOT believe That All refugees should be welcomed with open arms.

Not all refugees are bad people, nor are all of these refugees good people. They need to be checked out. With completely open borders, that is impossible.
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Thanks Kali. I believe many of us posting here are children of immigrants. Myself, my grandfather came into US via Canada from Scotland and in to Detroit.

And just as an aside, I know many good Muslims. So because my skin is light and I am blonde, does not make me different from those Muslims who come to US for good life.
My thoughts are all over the place. I honestly believe it's matter of time before they hit US.

Sent from my XT1031 using Tapatalk
 
KALI said:
I, personally think, that all Americans, should have a "what IF" plan. What if you call 911 and no one comes? What if there is no electricity? What if the grocery stores are empty? What if you cannot get gas?

There are no givens. Everyone should be able to rely on themselves as needed. Just in case. Imo
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I work for a major utility company. Ive always worried about this. Its a major target.

Sent from my XT1031 using Tapatalk
 
Snick1946 said:
I recall watching the live coverage and hearing that police delayed entering the theater for some time because they assumed it was a hostage thing and were getting a 'negotiation team' in place. If so, that delay may have cost several their lives.

No criticism of the authorities intended. If so however it just illustrates that governments need to adapt themselves to some new realities.
Click to expand...

<BBM for Focus>
Snick1946, I was scratching my head, hollering at the TV, 'go rescue these victims', and wondering why police were delaying the rescue of the hostages, which were being summarily executed one by one. The assumption that it was a hostage situation excuse doesn't hold water, imo. The continuous firing of the AK47s/Kalashnikovs in the concert hall would have ruled out a hostage situation.

This assumption is similar to when planes were being hijacked in the USA before 09/11/2001. They were normally rerouted to Cuba, then returned to the USA, without harm to the passengers. Instead, the planes were used as weapons of mass destruction on that tragic day..
The 1st rule of Public Safety; 'plan for the worst case scenario and hope for the best one'.. This rule was violated by the incident commander of the first responding authorities, due to their hesitation at the concert hall on the night of 11/13/2015, and additional lives were lost, imo..
 
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