CA CA - Sue Sharp 36, & 3 children, Keddie Cabin Murders, Plumas, 11 Apr 1981

Thanks dmac. We can agree to disagree on a few items but there is one slight correction. Although they are somewhat uncommon, there are precharged pellet guns (and I am not speaking of a BB gun) that do not have to be manually loaded between each shot. They are recycled in a, usually, bolt action type fashion from a rotary magazine. You can continue to repeatedly shoot them until the mazagine runs out and then more loaded magazines can be quickly popped in until the pressure charge depeats which would be after dozens if not hundreds of shots. I have one of these type pellet guns.
 
One other thing regarding the possibility that Tina was the target and for child *advertiser censored*: Although there are certainly deviants who are attracted to trans-pubescent individuals, there would seem to be a ready pool of runaways for this sort of thing. To wipe out a family (a capital crime) for this purpose would be almost beyond any thought. And, if there was some specific fixation on Tina then why not play it safer and just snatch her when she was out hiking or something like that?
 
One other thing regarding the possibility that Tina was the target and for child *advertiser censored*: Although there are certainly deviants who are attracted to trans-pubescent individuals, there would seem to be a ready pool of runaways for this sort of thing. To wipe out a family (a capital crime) for this purpose would be almost beyond any thought. And, if there was some specific fixation on Tina then why not play it safer and just snatch her when she was out hiking or something like that?

Just because they have a good amount of victim types available doesn't mean that all or even any of them will ever fall under the seduction of these individuals. Its about them finding the "right" victim



Remember this wasnt planned, it happened most likely as a result of some triggering incident , disorganized crime from the get go , though a plan may have been in place, something triggered it

Most child *advertiser censored* is produced, by the individuals themselves who are actively molesting kids, they will then sell or trade the materials they create with other perverts . They often forge "friendships" with others who may be interested in the same child they are molesting .

What happens in some cases, they will "trade" their victim, to these other pedophiles, especially if the victim can be kept as a sex slave (no parent or guardian seeking them), in speaking with guys weve had in custody , quite a few of them relayed that having a child that was unknown, not missed, that they could keep as a captive , would have ben their ultimate fantasy.

Which may be part of the reason for the emergence of the "Captor" type kidnappings we have seen increasingly in modern times.

The plan most likely wasn't for Tina to be abducted and taken away , I wouldn't doubt he and Tina may have spoken about "taking her away from this life etc.." but it most likely wasn't for her to be used in a pedophile ring , he just happened to be involved in that already.

There are 2 Criteria that serve to designate what is a Pedophile in the DSM IV (going off memory) 1) a recurring intense sexual interest in prepubescent children 2) Collection production, and use of Child *advertiser censored*

Ive never heard of a pedophile that didnt do BOTH.
 
We can agree to disagree if we're talking spec, but I made very little in my lengthy post. <modsnip> It was a Daisy PowerLine 880, which needs to be loaded individually for each pellet shot.

I absolutely concur, as do most logical people, that to assume the killers murdered three to get at Tina is <modsnip>. She was out of doors and alone all Saturday morning, spent the rest of the day out of doors or at the neighbors' house, and only returned home to do chores (clean that night's dishes, even though she apparently didn't eat at home). Afterwards, she went back to the neighbor's (where she normally spent Saturday nights on a sleepover, but this particular weekend Sheila spent the night and Tina slept at home). She went home and straight to bed at 9 pm-ish, Sue's youngest boy went to bed near the same time, and Rick and Justin stayed up to watch Love Boat, going to bed at 10 pm. Sue went to bed last.

I've spoken mainly facts, and tried to clearly point out what little spec I've added.

PS- I forgot to mention another BF of Sue, Dareyl. He and Sue spent a lot of days and nights together immediately prior to the murders. Dareyl lived in a RR trailer immediately opposite Marty's bedroom window. If Marty's fixation on Sue was motive, seeing Sue with Dareyl would have put that mental deviant off the rails. SPEC, btw.

I'm not 100% sure on so very much of this case, I never will or can be, and don't intend to sound as if I am. My last post was purely to clear up misinformation and wasted spec revolving around bad intel. I've 25 gigs of research at my fingertips, and rarely waste my time on wild spec. There's enough leads reaping solid results to keep me busy for a long while, and I don't waste time on how the boys got home, who left smudges on walls, Tina as primary target, etc... It's complete nonsense to me, unless something FACTUAL leads me back to any of it.

We have factual documents and falsified documents, and most documents have info that's both. We have a few truth-tellers from 1981, and a slew more liars. That's where the truth lies, not in revisiting outlandish speculation dismissed years ago. I came up with the site's slogan for a reason: "Uncovering the Truth, One Liar at a Time" has proved to be the straightest path to the solution of this case.
 
Hi Rich:

I am not discounting anything you say and I am in full agreement that the attack was not planned, at least not to any significant degree. And, I still think that the attackers "did not know the victims well" for the reason I mentioned.

Sorry if I missed it but does anyone have an explanation for lack of blood other than the one I posited regarding being wounded in the heart?
 
&#9658; RichKelly: The only child not supposed to stay the night in 28 was eldest daughter, Sheila. There's no indication where Johnny and Dana were when the murders began: still walking home, or already downstairs in Johnny's remote basement room (his room was not attached to the main floor via an indoor stairwell). Either way you cut it, the boys had to enter from the outside. Both male victims were still fully clothed, including outdoor attire (sweater, jacket, vest). It's important to note Johnny's basement room was in the unfinished basement, with his only heat being a space heater, so they could have been down there for a while with their outerwear still on. Johnny's windows were completely covered with cardboard for insulation, also making it difficult/impossible to see from the outside if his lights were on. The only claims the boys successfully hitched home are from liars trying to inject themselves into the picture. The killers are people who knew the victims, and it WAS a planned offense made to look unplanned. A home invasion was planned, most restraints/weapons were brought by the killers (the knives and hammer found at the scene are almost all superfluous to the death-causing injuries). They brought restraints with them (at least three rolls of med tape, including two different widths of tape, were used), and all the cords used as restraints came from 28, but all cord use appears to be solely for posthumous staging. Dana had been bound, hand and foot, with the wider med tape, but both bindings were broken. Sue was initially placed in a very sexually humiliating pose, and was in that position long enough for rigor to set. She was only later moved and covered, most certainly NOT by any of the killers. The survivor(s) or people that entered 28 prior to LE's arrival (3 survivors, plus 2 other entered) are the ones that moved Sue, out of empathy. The sheet and blanket came from the bed Tina had been sleeping in. Tina was socially inward, underdeveloped, shy. Johnny was rebellious, and had briefly run away many weeks before the murders. Sue was most severely beaten and abused, but Johnny is the only one with a 'deadly' stab wound prior to death. Most, if not all, of Sue's stab wounds appear postmortem. There is absolutely ZERO evidence indicating Tina left the cabin alive. Marty himself claimed he killed both Sue and Tina, and Tina was "incapacitated" when she was taken. The taking of Tina from the crime scene appears simply to be yet another layer of the ever-present and crappy staging: Get the lightest victim, a girl, and dump her miles away to confuse the scene and mislead people. 34 years later, it's still working.

Thanks for the info, but Ill stick with my assessment, theres too many holes in the theories you listed above.

Im sure you know what you are talking about, but I surmise that if that is indeed the official "theory" of what happened..... that is why the case remains unsolved.

Makes no sense
 
OK dmac, no more discussion warrented. I'm having a fantastic day.
 
Hi Rich:

I am not discounting anything you say and I am in full agreement that the attack was not planned, at least not to any significant degree. And, I still think that the attackers "did not know the victims well" for the reason I mentioned.

Sorry if I missed it but does anyone have an explanation for lack of blood other than the one I posited regarding being wounded in the heart?


No prob Stan,

Unless positioned in a way for gravity to assist in ex sanguination, very very rarely does a victim bleed out most of their blood volume .

The body only needs to bleed out enough for organs to start to fail, however in cases of trauma (you can ask any trauma nurse, or doc) especially cranial trauma, the blood pools inside the victim .

Therefore very little is actually spilled outside the victims body , even in penetrating and perforating trauma cases, you will very rarely see the proverbial pooling of blood

I know its gross, but if you ever watch a beheading video , there's not as much blood as you would expect from a decapitation.



Unless while the victim is still alive a large vessel is severed with nothing to stem the flow.

Even though Sue suffered a cut to the neck , its likely she was already dead when she sustained it
 
I'm not talking theory when I say the killers knew the victims and this was a planned attack. The killers (and there were at least two, probably three on-site) went in with something in mind, and I'm not even certain yet it was murder or if it simply escalated quickly. However, no more discussion is warranted. You've tied an anchor around your neck and are trying to swim with the same old disproved theories as your lifebuoy.

<modsnip>
 
btw, I've been working on a 3-D model of the crime scene. It's early going yet, but about 100 hours into the project I'm getting decent results.

[video=youtube;V1eWuLr0tO8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1eWuLr0tO8[/video]

BTW, these are based on FACTS and dimensions of the house have proved to be within an inch.
 
This vid concentrates on the living room. I have a big update already made, but haven't had the time to build the video.

[video=youtube;_wCrb5Rfsb8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wCrb5Rfsb8[/video]

keddie28 youtube channel
 
btw, I've been working on a 3-D model of the crime scene. It's early going yet, but about 100 hours into the project I'm getting decent results.

[video=youtube;V1eWuLr0tO8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1eWuLr0tO8[/video]

BTW, these are based on FACTS and dimensions of the house have proved to be within an inch.

Thats actually pretty cool .

But again what you've proposed as now "not theory" only opens up more questions that wouldnt fall into any category I could come up with
 
WOW and I even post my thoughts under my real name.
 
<modsnip>

I'm in close contact with many people involved in the case. I and others have developed much info that has proved true. There's much more info I simply can't talk about because it hasn't yet been independently verified (though the source is immaculate), or the sources refuse to go on record. There's also a lot of longstanding fear, and rightly so.

PCSO also has a new guy on the case (last 20+ months), and he's an old guy who was around and was even mistreated (vilified/fired) by the Powers That Be at the time of the murders. I went into my relationship with PCSO very angry and distrustful, but this guy is walking the walk instead of just talking the load of old LE BS.

As for the vid, the next one will be the best, by far. There's many things missing, as I can't do 3-d stuff well (yet). Part of this 3-D exercise is simply to test out different software while learning a new design skill. I hope to eventually add as many objects found at the scene, represented faithfully and in the correct position- including the multitude of multi-layered blood stains in the living room. That place was a kill zone, and even CS photos prove LE immediately understood there was a buttload of staging going on. At this point, the bodies aren't the correct shapes, the cushion isn't on the floor, etc etc...

Keep an open mind and please read up. I'm not here to argue with anyone.

As for "case solved", I think it pretty much is, except there are still living perps deserving to die in jail for their involvement.
 
'fact' isn't a category? Many are blind to facts in this case, so please try reading up on the case before sticking to your gut feelings and theories. They're not even educated guesses at this point.

I'm in close contact with many people involved in the case. I and others have developed much info that has proved true. There's much more info I simply can't talk about because it hasn't yet been independently verified (though the source is immaculate), or the sources refuse to go on record. There's also a lot of longstanding fear, and rightly so.

PCSO also has a new guy on the case (last 20+ months), and he's an old guy who was around and was even mistreated (vilified/fired) by the Powers That Be at the time of the murders. I went into my relationship with PCSO very angry and distrustful, but this guy is walking the walk instead of just talking the load of old LE BS.

As for the vid, the next one will be the best, by far. There's many things missing, as I can't do 3-d stuff well (yet). Part of this 3-D exercise is simply to test out different software while learning a new design skill. I hope to eventually add as many objects found at the scene, represented faithfully and in the correct position- including the multitude of multi-layered blood stains in the living room. That place was a kill zone, and even CS photos prove LE immediately understood there was a buttload of staging going on. At this point, the bodies aren't the correct shapes, the cushion isn't on the floor, etc etc...

Keep an open mind and please read up. I'm not here to argue with anyone.

As for "case solved", I think it pretty much is, except there are still living perps deserving to die in jail for their involvement.

If you're not trying to argue then perhaps you need to understand some (perhaps with experience in the field ) may feel different given their background, and what information and evidence is out there on this case.

I don't read blogs, I dont read peoples webpages, for that very reason.. usually there's a heavy dose of opinion on them, and all opinion needs is 1 person to agree with it then everyone who comes along that dare think otherwise, is out of their mind

Seen it happen a bunch of times, ..

I was also advised that Former FBI special agent John Douglas (and profiler whether or not you like him) reviewed this case, and came up with a pretty similar finding to mine .

Remember a "gut" feeling is often right, whether or not you have experience in something or not, many cases have been solved because of that very same gut feeling

I have actually seen what is referred to as staging, NOW unless the photos I was shown either 1) Were Not of the actual crime scene, or 2) Incomplete, or 3) they were altered, I don't see it with this case, as a matter of fact I don't even see anything that looks like attempted staging, at least in my experience .

If you have insider info and you know it's on point .. great, but given what info I have read, given what I have seen, and what I have access to .... I will stay to my theory

If it turns out I was wrong.. hey so be it , I was given a narrative on the story, a few pics, and a few random pieces of background info on some of the victims.

But again I will say what you are proposing raises more questions than it answers.

Now as for the vids, the design is outstanding , the 3d stuff can get confusing (moving through walls etc..) but the details were really well laid out .

So again, if you're right , hey good job, but Ill wait to see if anything ever materializes on the case.
 
I have this case at #81 on the, eventually (I'm up to 655 at the moment), top 1000+ classic (more than 20 years old) unsolved murder cases I'm compiling; right between Ann Webb (1807) at #80 and the Sumpter County Does (1976) at #82.
 
Here's a link to an interactive panorama view of the living room crime scene, based off my most recent 3D mockup of the cabin. Use your mouse to navigate (left-click and drag)- use the mouse wheel to zoom in and out. If you know enough about the case, you'll know the "murder weapons" found at the scene were not responsible for the holes in the walls.

https://www.facebook.com/keddie28/posts/1645932239011435
 
I'm sorry guys, but this looks like the work of two drunken drug crazed pieces of garbage. One wielding a knife , the other with a hammer. After seeing the crime scene photos, it seems that Sue was on the couch when two dirtbags burst through the door. (Probably to sexual assault her.) She put up a tremendous fight that cost her her life. At this point, the dirtbags turned their sights onto Tina who was probably already under attacked. At one point, it looks like Johnny and Dana entered the cabin. They saw Sue on the floor and moved toward her.

That's when the two "subjects" appeared from behind. (Probably from Tina's bedroom). Dana was struck from behind with a hammer. His head landed on the corner of the couch cushion that was probably being used to muffle Sue's screams. Johnny turned around to see what was going on when he was attack with a knife.

After that the two scumbags decided they weren't going to be disturb again so they kidnapped Tina, and took her to an isolated location.

At some point during the night, little Justin came out of his room. He covered Sue with a blanket, and went back into his room leaving her blood on his bedroom door knob.

I wish I didn't have to type this, but I do hope there is a special hell for these two perpetrators.
 

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